Started with head gasket but found chipped piston

RaftingCRD · **Joined:** Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:11 pm **Posts:** 4

Hello,

Been following this forum since I started looking at a good gas mileage vehicle that can tow my rafting trailer; but first time posting.

Background, found a 2005 CRD last July, timing belt just done, fuel pump upgrade, air intake heater, block heater, EHM, EGR delete and GDE tune, everything I wanted. Ran great. Added new shocks, tires, MAP sensor, struts.

Month ago I get a fuel injector code and start losing coolant, pressure test fail, engine compression good. Ordered ARB head studs, new rockers and gasket kit. Took it to a performance shop who said no problem (I live 3 hours from decent sized town, steamboat CO). They have issue getting head off and then find pits in #4 piston and sand in the other 3. Been 2.5 weeks and now says he doesn't feel comfortable and needs to have a machine shop check head for warping. I found the sleeve and p piston head kit but mechanic still wavering.

My question is how much harder is it to do a sleeve piston head install, (drop pan, don't remove engine), likely hood my head needs machined, order new fuel injectors/lines, return parts I've ordered and sell it for scrap? (Its my wifes and mine only vehicle, talked her into it and she's not happy with money spent.)

Any recommendations thoughts appreciated! Willing to tow to a better mechanic with AAA.

APC9199 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:15 pm

Hmm, I'm not fully following. You said the compression test was good, but the mechanic found pitting in the tops of the piston. SAND in the other 3??? Was there any damage to the cylinder walls? If it were me, and the cylinder walls look good, the compression WAS good (before disassembly), there is no knocking when it runs and the head checks out OK...then replace the exhaust valves in the head and put it back together. It is possible the pitting is tens of thousands of miles old from the vehicle sitting too long or even from the tip of a glow plug breaking off in its previous life.

DO have the head checked. DO make sure the valves get replaced if the head is flat. Also, make sure the glow plugs are the newer metal style, not the old ceramics. Follow what everyone else here has done when replacing the head gasket and everything above it and you'll be good. It would probably be worth having the injectors checked at a Bosch certified shop after checking them for damage by eye. It shouldn't cost more than a couple hundred bucks and will eliminate them as a potential problem once things are back together.

If there is more damage than stated here, then we would need a little more info as to what is actually wrong. Pictures, if possible. If there is truly some type of sand in the pistons, it hasn't been there long. It would have been pulverized and send out the exhaust valves long ago. Perhaps they are seeing some residual rust sediment from the coolant leak, which fell into the cylinders when they took it apart? Keep us informed!

Dez · **Posted:** Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:16 pm

I'm in the middle of repairing a valve dropped motor and it's not really that much work to pull the motor, took me 3 hours to do it and I was jamming out and taking my time. I now have it sitting on my engine stand and plan on fully assembling the engine and reinstalling. Id have the head checked for cracks. Did the head gasket show any signs of possible coolant leak? Any pictures of the damaged piston? I'm about $2000 into parts on my engine so far :shock:

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:31 pm

Quote:

They have issue getting head off and then find pits in #4 piston and sand in the other 3

Sorry, something is really amiss here, red flags everywhere!! :grim:

You need to find a real mechanic who knows these engines.... :juggle:

RaftingCRD · **Joined:** Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:11 pm **Posts:** 4

Thanks for the replies and wish I could find a better mechanic. I like the idea of checking the head and getting it back together (easier said than done done nearest machinist is 70 miles away). All right so I got the mechanic to send photos of the cylinder. Sand and pits around edge. From other symptoms i.e. brake pads, I think it food sit for a long time before I purchased it. It ran well, no knocking. If the head checks out I might just replace injectors also and the valves then let it run for as long as possble.

Thanks again for the help

https://m.imgur.com/account/COutdoor/images/9hFcQJQ

https://m.imgur.com/account/COutdoor/images/VXhW3pN

Dez · **Posted:** Tue May 01, 2018 9:41 pm

I sent you a message, RaftingCrd

Dez · **Posted:** Tue May 01, 2018 9:42 pm

Also your pics are not working

RaftingCRD · **Joined:** Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:11 pm **Posts:** 4

Replied to your message, thanks. I think I have the pictures right this time...

http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/COutd ... sort=3&o=2

http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/COutd ... sort=3&o=3

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Wed May 02, 2018 5:58 pm

Does anyone else think that looks like stuff that fell in when the injectors were pulled?

The ring around the top looks a bit like intense steam cleaning. Possible the result of coolant.. I can't tell for sure from a pic.

APC9199 · **Posted:** Wed May 02, 2018 8:28 pm

I can't see any other way to have sand in a piston. Especially clean, intact sand. Someone did some serious offroading and got sand around the injectors, I agree.

As for the pitting and chipping on the piston itself, my only guess is a glow plug tip broke off and did some cosmetic damage before being chewed up and spit out. Another reason to make sure the valves get changed in the head!

Any good engine mechanic should be able to estimate the condition of the main bearings by the "backlash" of the piston as it is turned through its TDC stroke. Even as a relative measurement from the other three cylinders, it should let you know if that bearing is OK. You basically measure the angle of the crank at the instant each cylinder reaches TDC, then measure the angle again at the instant the piston starts to move back down the cylinder. I don't have any idea what those values SHOULD be for our engine, but they should all be darn close to each other as a reference.

Just curious, do you know if the gasket that was removed was a 2-hole version?

RaftingCRD · **Joined:** Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:11 pm **Posts:** 4

Does the piston need to be replaced? If it does I think the cost to repair is more than I can put into it, parts plus labor $$$$

It's a one hole head gasket, and I would guess the polishing from the coolant but wasn't leaking for long (as far as I could tell). Ordering new valves/springs but will only install if I can get the head checked somewhere and hopefully have them put it all back together, do it myself if I had a place to work on it.

It's been recommended to have the injectors checked, does that need to be taken in or can they be mailed in?

Dez · **Posted:** Thu May 03, 2018 6:06 pm

Baker's diesel is where I send mine to. Great turn around and cost $25 per Injector, $15 if it falls any tests. Plus shipping back to you. They give you a discount if they test bad for a new replacement injector.

http://www.bakersdiesel.com/index.php

rankom · **Posted:** Thu May 03, 2018 7:08 pm

you ask if piston needed to be replaced ? in my opinion yes , because engine is dusted and injector nozzle spray pattern my be problem like other people suggested , so glazed cylinder liner and piston almost melted , i wood remove engine block out and disassemble it for inspection .

APC9199 · **Posted:** Thu May 03, 2018 7:33 pm

A few chips or dings in the piston isn't going to make or break it. If it is actually melted, then it absolutely needs to be replaced, but so far that description hasn't been used and it doesn't look melted. The bigger concern is if the connecting rod bearings and main bearings are ok, hence my recommendation about checking them above.

Any shop that can check the head for cracks should be able to replace the valves. Just have them do it if the head is good.

You can probably worry about the injectors later if the tips look to be in good condition. It is just nice to have them checked while they're out. Do it if you have the time and money, don't if you don't. You should be able to mail them to a reputable shop if you can find one nearby, just use hefty packaging.

rankom · **Posted:** Thu May 03, 2018 8:35 pm

As a former 310 t tech ,looking at these pictures , of piston and liners in this condition i know if it goes back to service again like this it wont last , but then what do i know? i don't pull wrenches for living any more

Started with head gasket but found chipped piston

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