Inline Lift pump PSI

BC_CRDtom · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2018 12:15 pm

I’m experiencing shudder under monderate-heavy throttle. While I plan to replace my fuel filter, I’d also like to add an inline lift pump while the fuel system is depressurized. I’m seeing many options for online pumps ranging from low pressure 3-5psi, all the way to 150psi. Can anyone shed some insight as to the proper pressure pump that should be installed?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2018 12:42 pm

BC_CRDtom wrote:

I’m experiencing shudder under monderate-heavy throttle. While I plan to replace my fuel filter, I’d also like to add an inline lift pump while the fuel system is depressurized. I’m seeing many options for online pumps ranging from low pressure 3-5psi, all the way to 150psi. Can anyone shed some insight as to the proper pressure pump that should be installed?

An in-tank lift pump is one of the cleanest and easiest install and probably one of the least expensive options available that most on LOST have installed...
The absolute best way to ensure you never have air infusion in the fuel system ever again is to install an in-tank low pressure fuel pump like the Carter P76148M in-tank fuel pump or an equivalent!
Your Jeep is already factory wired to a connector under the back seat on the drivers side for the in-tank pump including a fuel pump relay in the Power Distribution Center and the ECM already has the logic loaded for operation of the pump!
(The fuel pump relay runs the pump for ~15 seconds when you switch the key to the ON position and then runs the pump continuously when you start the engine)
It is a low pressure fuel pump for a diesel like the ones used in the Dodge Cummins Ram trucks.
You will be amazed at how much better the engine runs and performs with the addition of an in-tank fuel pump!!!

Additional in-tank fuel pump part numbers: AIRTEX-E7181M, DELPHI-FG1224, MOPAR-5143160AA

A properly installed in-tank lift pump will ensure absolutely NO air infusion into the fuel system period! :!:

An in-tank lift pump puts the entire fuel system under a positive (+) pressure from where it first exits the fuel pump inside the fuel tank through all the fuel lines and fittings, through the fuel filter head, heater, and filter, all the way to the back of the CP3 injection pump.
ANY LEAK anywhere on the system will BE SELF EVIDENT and show up very quickly as fuel leaking out.
Air simply cannot get into the system while it is under 10-15 psig of pressure!!!

If you opt to do the wiring harness mod yourself, all you will have to add is two wires from under the rear seat to the top of the fuel tank. The OEM fuel line fittings are designed for positive pressure, not vacuum, and will work just fine with the in-tank pump install and will not require any changes...

These two links below will answer any questions concerning installing an in-tank lift pump and / or wiring it up properly.
http://www.auerbach.ca/kj/lift_pump/
viewtopic.php?t=26385&highlight=

Seth at Sasquatch Parts has both the correct fuel pump and correct wiring harness listed on his web site, Link: > https://shop.sasquatchparts.com/
Link:> https://shop.sasquatchparts.com/product ... r-p76148m/

Install it and forget it!....

:SOMBRERO:

BC_CRDtom · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2018 1:07 pm

Thanks for all the great info on in tank lift pumps. I was kinda hoping to avoid dropping the tank and spending many hundreds of dollars though on an in tank pump and hardness. I was more inquiring about an in-line application (splicing into the fuel hard line just forward of the rear wheel).

Not sure which PSI pump to use for that purpose.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2018 1:56 pm

Ideally an in tank pump is best and if you do the install it won't cost "many hundreds of dollars" even Canadian dollars; more like a couple of hundred. If you want to do an inline go to http://colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/ and download my tech tips PDF; go to the "Lift pump in line or in tank" bookmark for tips on in tank and in line. In line options are Facet 40109 or single Kennedy Duramax lift pump or probably a NAPA AFP E3309.

FYI you want ca. 3-10psi. No way do you want 150psi unless you want to blow things up.

But back to basics. Shudder shouldn't have anything to do with the fuel system. It's most commonly over working the torque converter and/or incorrect (ATF+4 only) or insufficient transmission fluid. Next time you experience shudder immediately either a) slightly back off throttle or b) press the overdrive cutoff button on the shift lever. Is shudder immediately stops it's transmission related.

Also FYI the fuel system is NOT pressurized between the tank and CP3 (a.k.a. fuel pump) on the front of the engine. The CP3 pulls fuel from the tank; there is no fuel pump in the tank to push fuel under pressure to the front of the vehicle.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2018 2:01 pm

BC_CRDtom wrote:

Thanks for all the great info on in tank lift pumps. I was kinda hoping to avoid dropping the tank and spending many hundreds of dollars though on an in tank pump and hardness. I was more inquiring about an in-line application (splicing into the fuel hard line just forward of the rear wheel).
Not sure which PSI pump to use for that purpose.

IF you go that route, which I do not recommend, it must be a "low pressure" pump, ~10 to 15 psig max.
Also, be sure and replace the factory slip-on fuel line fittings and hose on top of the fuel tank as the slip-on fittings are designed for pressure (gassers) and NOT vacuum.
An in-line pump will have vacuum on it's suction side all the way back to the top of fuel tank and any leak will allow air to be sucked in and injested into the fuel system which is bad.
This will still require dropping the fuel tank to gain access to the fuel line fitting. :roll:

Use a good quality diesel rated fuel line hose and some good screw or crimp type fuel line clamps on all connections.

:SOMBRERO:

BC_CRDtom · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2018 2:31 pm

Maybe I’ll have to do a bit more diagnosing. The stumble I mentioned should have been called a misfire. Under load I routinely get a p0204 or p0202 (misfire codes). Maybe my injectors are dirty? I thought perhaps the engine is starved for fuel also, hence my desire for a cheap, in-line lift pump. The pump ($150 USD) + harness ($250 USD) from Sasquatch parts + taxes/duty = several hundred dollars, $500 by my calculations.

I plan on hot soaking my injectors with sea foam when I replace my filter. Maybe I’ll start from there and see if there’s any improvement.

But at this point a $500 autoparts invoice is not an option.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2018 2:49 pm

BC_CRDtom wrote:

Maybe I’ll have to do a bit more diagnosing. The stumble I mentioned should have been called a misfire. Under load I routinely get a p0204 or p0202 (misfire codes). Maybe my injectors are dirty? I thought perhaps the engine is starved for fuel also, hence my desire for a cheap, in-line lift pump. The pump ($150 USD) + harness ($250 USD) from Sasquatch parts + taxes/duty = several hundred dollars, $500 by my calculations.
I plan on hot soaking my injectors with sea foam when I replace my filter. Maybe I’ll start from there and see if there’s any improvement.
But at this point a $500 autoparts invoice is not an option.

IF you remove your injectors, be darn SURE and mark or tag them and put them back in the same location as they programed by ID numbers into the ECM...

Before installing a fuel pump, consider this: air in fuel generally causes hard starting and / or complete shutdown when the CP3 cannot get enough fuel to maintain adequate high pressure fuel rail pressure.

As to your codes:
P0202 - Injector 2 Control Circuit
P0204 - Injector 4 Control Circuit

You may have a wiring problem or connection problem where the main harness connects to the ECM.
What year is your CRD? The 06's had a known problem of wiring harness chaffing where it passes back of the fuel filter head.
You really need to check your wiring and all connections to make sure that is not the problem... :roll:

BC_CRDtom · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2018 3:24 pm

I have an 05. Do you think dirty injectors could cause those p0202/04 codes, or would that only be caused by an electrical circuit fault?

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2018 3:31 pm

I would not start by pulling the injectors. Try a couple of tanks heavily laced with Power Service silver injector cleaner. As to cost you can get the Airtex in tank pump for ca. $110-125 USD and the PDF link I provided shows how to build the harness for a nominal cost especially if you scavenge part of it out of a gasser at a junk yard.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2018 4:07 pm

Lets walk this back a bit...

FIRST-
When was the last time you changed your fuel filter?
Just go ahead and change it to eliminate that possibility.
A bad tank of fuel will crud it up really quick.

Second-
The misfire codes.
Unplug each injector and firmly reconnect. One at a time.
If you cant feel a solid snap when reconnecting, use a pick to remove the orange seal inside the connector.

Third-
YES. You can use a inline fuel pump.
I use a Facet 40109.
No. Its not as good at the intank pump, but it works well and is super easy to install.

Last-
If after solving all your fuel related issues you still experience this "shudder," then you need a new torque converter.

BC_CRDtom · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2018 5:06 pm

The CRD is somewhat new to me. I’ve driven her about 10,000kms so far and have done pretty much all fluid, filter, sensor cleaning, hose replacements, in addition to ECU and TCM tuning, which has dramatically improved performance. I have not however, changed the fuel filter yet, and who knows the last time it was changed, so that is at the top of my list. I’m gonna prime it with sea foam to hot soak my injectors, hopefully that clears things up. I’ve verified all injector connections are secure and clean.

You guys have definitely convinced me to go the in tank route as opposed to an in line lift pump. That $250 plug and play harness scared me off, but if I can grab a gasser harness and retro the CRDs one to fit, then that’s not so bad.

Thanks guys

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2018 5:14 pm

If your stock configuration is pulling enough air that it enters the HP Common Rail and causes misfires, then an out-of-tank pump will not fix the problem.

WWDiesel has already outlined the nature of the in-tank pump, so I won't repeat it here.
The air is most likely coming into the fuel from the fittings leading from the tank to the metal fuel line.
The CP3 can deal with this to an extent, by way of the Cascade Overflow Valve.
Too much air, and it will make it's way into the HP circuit, which starts causing fuel delivery problems.
Adding an in-line pump to this condition, and it just increases vacuum at these fittings, which will draw in more air.
The added pressure into the CP3 transfer pump will help increase the Cascade Overflow Valve's capability, but if the added air is still more than it can handle, you will still have air-in-HP fuel problems. Possibly worse than before.

Bottom line - drop the tank and fix the air incursion issue between the tank unit fittings and the steel fuel lines.
This alone may fix your problems, but since the tank is dropped anyway, why not pull the sending unit, and put the proper mopar diesel in-tank pump unit in?

Save up for a month or two, and make a weekend project of it.

BC_CRDtom · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2018 5:26 pm

I’m convinced, saving my pennies for a proper lift pump.

Do the rubber fuel lines leading from the tank to the steel lines need to be replaced during this project, since it was mentioned this area may be the cause of air ingress?

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2018 5:37 pm

BC_CRDtom wrote:

I’m convinced, saving my pennies for a proper lift pump.

:lol:

LOL you ninja'd me while I was writing. :goink:

Do the rubber fuel lines leading from the tank to the steel lines need to be replaced during this project, since it was mentioned this area may be the cause of air ingress?

HIGHLY recommended, and use proper diesel rated silicone hose. It will hold up better and will be compatible if you run bio-diesel.

BC_CRDtom · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2018 5:45 pm

Haha, roger that.

Rubber fuel lines are 5/16 right? I’m getting conflicting information. Some say 3/8ths others say 5/16ths

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2018 5:51 pm

Technically both are half right.
The supply line is 3/8
The return line is 5/16
I used 3/8 line for both, and have had no problems.
I also mounted the new fuel pump 180 degrees rotation from the stock configuration. This makes the fuel fittings face to the front of the vehicle and allows shortening the amount of hose needed by around 4 feet.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2018 7:53 pm

Don’t use seafoam when you prime your new filter.
Use PowerService.

Seafoam has no lubricating properties and your injection pump will hate you for it.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2018 9:33 pm

BC_CRDtom wrote:

I’m convinced, saving my pennies for a proper lift pump.
Do the rubber fuel lines leading from the tank to the steel lines need to be replaced during this project, since it was mentioned this area may be the cause of air ingress?

If you go the in-tank fuel pump, the OEM slip-on connections will work just fine as they are designed for pressure, not suction.
IF you go the in-line fuel pump route, yes the slip-on factory connections need to be elimated and replaced with 3/8 diesel rated hose and quality hose clamps.

IF you install an in-tank fuel pump, ANY leak anywhere between the fuel tank and the back of the CP3 injection pump will become self evident as a fuel leak super quick as soon as you pressurize the system with the new in-tank pump.... :roll:

But in the meantime, please change that fuel filter. Fill new fuel filter with clean diesel fuel, or a 50% mix using Diesel Kleen, or Power Service diesel fuel additive before installing...
Either one of them will help clean out your injectors....

:SOMBRERO:

BC_CRDtom · **Posted:** Sun May 20, 2018 8:56 pm

So I solved the hesitation issue I was having. The P204-p202 codes (injector circuit fault) issue I was having was due to the orange weather steal on the injector plugs being completely missing. Managed to obtain 2 new injector plugs & pigtails on short notice from the dealership to replace cyl 2 & 4, but will be doing all of them once their backorder is filled. I also replaced the fuel filter and hot soaked my injectors with Seafoam. It’s running far better now. On my last commute home cylinder 2 kept tripping and I had to McGuiver my #2 plug with chewing gum to stop the harness from jiggling about and causing me to keep going into limp mode.

Never a dull moment with the beloved CRD, lol

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon May 21, 2018 9:46 am

FUEL INJECTOR NO. 2 (DIESEL) - BLACK 2 WAY
Full Repair Kit: 05143779AA

5143779AA Mopar :google:

Plenty available from the Mopar online vendors.... :wink:

example:> https://www.moparpartsgiant.com/parts/m ... 779aa.html

Inline Lift pump PSI

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