For towing purposes, it is probably a lot more cost efficient to go back to smaller diameter tires verses changing out both front and rear ring and pinion gear sets....
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| Help with 4.10 Re-Gearing http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=88741 |
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| Author: | Science and Energy [ Tue May 22, 2018 10:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Help with 4.10 Re-Gearing |
I could use some help with 4.10 gearing. I have an 05 CRD and 31.5” tires with an Ecotune and some mild mods. I will be towing. I bought it this way and the tires are darn near new on the factory wheels. If I were replacing them, they would be a little bit smaller but not a great deal smaller. I am considering 4.10 re-gearing when I rebuild the rear diff. I have a decent amount of noise coming from it. I have a new Detroit TrueTrac that will go in when that happens and a new aluminum cover with a proper drain hole. How much is it to buy the re-gearing parts. I think it is just the pinion and ring that I would need to get additionally right? I found them new at JBA: https://jeepinbyal.com/ring-and-pinion-4-10.html The set is more money than I thought they would be. Is there a better source? I think I read that the 4cyl has them. Is it a good idea to use a salvaged set? Where do we find front Pinion sets? These should work too right? https://www.summitracing.com/search/par ... e-count/27 10 year warranty: http://www.roughcountry.com/rough-count ... 5-410.html and http://www.roughcountry.com/dana-30-rin ... 41013.html |
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| Author: | flash7210 [ Tue May 22, 2018 11:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help with 4.10 Re-Gearing |
For the rear, any 4.10 gear for a Chrysler 8.25 will work. For the front, you options are limited. Its gotta be for a Dana30A. Not just any Dana 30. JBA will have the correct one. Yes, if you can find a 4cly gasser in a junkyard. Grab the rear axle and the front diff. |
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| Author: | Science and Energy [ Tue May 22, 2018 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help with 4.10 Re-Gearing |
I just found this:https://www.morris4x4center.com/ring-pinion-gear-kit-ratio-4-10-5066085aa.html I know everyone talks smack on crown but that is a more reasonable price for a ring and pinion that won't be loaded anywhere near as much as the rear. Does this seam reasonable? |
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| Author: | flash7210 [ Tue May 22, 2018 11:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help with 4.10 Re-Gearing |
Double and triple check that part number. And verify their return policy. Others have gotten burned before. |
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| Author: | WWDiesel [ Tue May 22, 2018 12:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help with 4.10 Re-Gearing |
This is what I have on file. If they are not the correct numbers, please let me know. Description: Jeep Liberty. 4.10 ratio FRONT AXLE PARTS: LubeLocker Differential Gasket for Dana 30A" Front (Part No. LLR-D030) 410 Ring & Pinion Gear Set -- 5066085AB REAR AXLE PARTS: LubeLocker Differential Gasket for Chrysler 8.25" Rear (Part No. LLR-C825) 410 Ring & Pinion Gear Set -- 5140914AA |
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| Author: | Science and Energy [ Tue May 22, 2018 2:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help with 4.10 Re-Gearing |
I had to look for a long time but I found a 4cyl front diff. It has 200k miles. Because it would have been driven for so much of that in 2wd should I still consider it despite the high miles? It would be 150 and I would put a TrueTrac in it. |
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| Author: | flash7210 [ Tue May 22, 2018 2:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help with 4.10 Re-Gearing |
Science and Energy wrote: I had to look for a long time but I found a 4cyl front diff. It has 200k miles. Because it would have been driven for so much of that in 2wd should I still consider it despite the high miles? It would be 150 and I would put a TrueTrac in it. Seems pretty good to me. Inspect the housing for cracks, though unlikely. You should plan to replace the bearings and seals too. |
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| Author: | Science and Energy [ Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help with 4.10 Re-Gearing |
Would 4.10 even be an improvement for this rig? Let me know if I got this right: Stock tires are 29 inches in diameter; therefore, with 31.5 inch diameter wheels that is a 8.67% increase in size. With my EcoTune and a small number of mods, I should be at least at 340 foot-pounds of torque. That is a 13.6% increase in peak torque output. I bought the Jeep (my first) with the wheels already on and put the tune on before driving it around much so I don’t have a baseline. It moves around well and I don’t know if 4.10 gears even make sense. I will do some boat towing. Some mentioned seeing better MPGs with 4.10 which surprised me. I am going to be rebuilding the differential soon and installing a limited slip in the back. Now would be the time to make any changes. |
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| Author: | flash7210 [ Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help with 4.10 Re-Gearing |
I’m on 32” tires and have the factory 3.73 gears. The CRD does just fine for me. But... Most of my driving is done on flat terrain and I never have to tow anything. If I had to drive through mountainous terrain or frequently tow things, I would probably go back to a 30” tire. |
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| Author: | WWDiesel [ Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help with 4.10 Re-Gearing |
For towing purposes, it is probably a lot more cost efficient to go back to smaller diameter tires verses changing out both front and rear ring and pinion gear sets....
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| Author: | Science and Energy [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help with 4.10 Re-Gearing |
Or, maybe I should just jump from full torque Eco Tune to Hot Tune. If it drives this nice now I can't see 4.10 being needed with another 30 foot pounds of torque. 295 to 365 is a 24% jump in torque. I doubt 8.7% larger wheels needs re-gearing when that much additional torque is available. Re-gearing to 4.10 from 3.73 is a 10% reduction in in gearing. Does this sound reasonable to everyone else too? |
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| Author: | WWDiesel [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help with 4.10 Re-Gearing |
Science and Energy wrote: Or, maybe I should just jump from full torque Eco Tune to Hot Tune. If it drives this nice now I can't see 4.10 being needed with another 30 foot pounds of torque. 295 to 365 is a 24% jump in torque. I doubt 8.7% larger wheels needs re-gearing when that much additional torque is available. Re-gearing to 4.10 from 3.73 is a 10% reduction in in gearing. Does this sound reasonable to everyone else too? Watch this test of three new 2017 1 ton diesel duallys, Dodge, Ford, & Chevy pulling the exact same 22.8k load up a long continuous uphill grade in Colorado. The Dodge and Ford both had 411 gears while the Chevy had 373 gears and it actually outperformed the 411's in the grade pulling test.  Most interesting! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GxztJit22A |
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| Author: | tjkj2002 [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help with 4.10 Re-Gearing |
WWDiesel wrote: Science and Energy wrote: Or, maybe I should just jump from full torque Eco Tune to Hot Tune. If it drives this nice now I can't see 4.10 being needed with another 30 foot pounds of torque. 295 to 365 is a 24% jump in torque. I doubt 8.7% larger wheels needs re-gearing when that much additional torque is available. Re-gearing to 4.10 from 3.73 is a 10% reduction in in gearing. Does this sound reasonable to everyone else too? Watch this test of three new 2017 1 ton diesel duallys, Dodge, Ford, & Chevy pulling the exact same 22.8k load up a long continuous uphill grade in Colorado. The Dodge and Ford both had 411 gears while the Chevy had 373 gears and it actually outperformed the 411's in the grade pulling test. Most interesting! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GxztJit22A That is all due to the transmission and tire size. |
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| Author: | tjkj2002 [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help with 4.10 Re-Gearing |
Science and Energy wrote: Or, maybe I should just jump from full torque Eco Tune to Hot Tune. If it drives this nice now I can't see 4.10 being needed with another 30 foot pounds of torque. 295 to 365 is a 24% jump in torque. I doubt 8.7% larger wheels needs re-gearing when that much additional torque is available. Re-gearing to 4.10 from 3.73 is a 10% reduction in in gearing. Does this sound reasonable to everyone else too? It's for your transmission.More torque will not make the trans shift properly with the bigger tires. |
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| Author: | Science and Energy [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help with 4.10 Re-Gearing |
I believe to torque converter was replaced with an upgraded/updated one. With the full torque eco boost I have no shudder. Who out there has Hot Tunes and bigger wheels? Any trouble from the tranny? |
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| Author: | WWDiesel [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help with 4.10 Re-Gearing |
tjkj2002 wrote: That is all due to the transmission and tire size. I agree, but if all things were equal, I would expect a 410 to outperform a 373. Science and Energy wrote: I believe to torque converter was replaced with an upgraded/updated one. With the full torque eco boost I have no shudder. Who out there has Hot Tunes and bigger wheels? Any trouble from the tranny? As you increase HP & torque and then install larger (taller) tires to boot, you better have a very good torque converter & transmission to handle the additional loading placed on the friction clutches when TC is locked up in overdrive! I am running 245/75/16's on stock wheels and Yeti's Stage IV Hot Tune along with an adjustable Diablo Power Puck on top. Suncoast torque converter, new front pump at time of TC install and a TransGo kit to boost line pressure. Have never experienced any TC shudder or slippage even when pulling a 3k load in 5th gear TC locked up....  A huge amount of strain is placed on those clutches in the torque converter as the above variables increase. |
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| Author: | rancherman [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help with 4.10 Re-Gearing |
Science and Energy wrote: I had to look for a long time but I found a 4cyl front diff. It has 200k miles. Because it would have been driven for so much of that in 2wd should I still consider it despite the high miles? It would be 150 and I would put a TrueTrac in it. Buying used gears/axles can be a crapshoot. Check the backlash (amount you can turn the pinion before the carrier starts to turn) If it seems excessive, it probably really is. Look for evidence that it's still original, (no extra colorful gasket sealer) or signs it's been a leaking pig. If just buying the gears, look to see if the wear pattern is basically centered on the tooth, both pinion and ring. No rust, pits, chips, nicks.. discoloration. MAKE SURE THEY ARE A MATCHED SET! Should be a mating number or some 'mark' on each. I don't know for sure on this newer gen stuff, but older stuff from my day all had match marks, besides the pinion depth specification.. I don't know how many swap meets I've had to dig around in a vendors 'box of gears' to come up with a matched set! All they had to do is box them together/tie/sack...  Even all that, it's impossible to know if they'll whine until you have them set up and installed.. So buy accordingly! (cheap) LOL. Once they've been run mis-aligned, they'll probably whine forever, even when they are brought back to spec. I'd say it's a 50/50 chance of getting a nice set with that many miles. |
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| Author: | Dent [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help with 4.10 Re-Gearing |
If you are really going to do this, I would use car-part.com to find a 4 cyl. gasser with low mileage and buy the entire differential. No cost to set up then. Just bolt it in. I bought a 1000 mile front diff with 3.73 to replace mine that blew up, and I paid $250. It was essentially brand new. You'll pay that much for the D30A 4.10 gear set. |
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| Author: | tjkj2002 [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help with 4.10 Re-Gearing |
WWDiesel wrote: tjkj2002 wrote: That is all due to the transmission and tire size. I agree, but if all things were equal, I would expect a 410 to outperform a 373. Science and Energy wrote: I believe to torque converter was replaced with an upgraded/updated one. With the full torque eco boost I have no shudder. Who out there has Hot Tunes and bigger wheels? Any trouble from the tranny? As you increase HP & torque and then install larger (taller) tires to boot, you better have a very good torque converter & transmission to handle the additional loading placed on the friction clutches when TC is locked up in overdrive! I am running 245/75/16's on stock wheels and Yeti's Stage IV Hot Tune along with an adjustable Diablo Power Puck on top. Suncoast torque converter, new front pump at time of TC install and a TransGo kit to boost line pressure. Have never experienced any TC shudder or slippage even when pulling a 3k load in 5th gear TC locked up.... A huge amount of strain is placed on those clutches in the torque converter as the above variables increase. GM's run a smaller overall tire than Ford and Dodge so they do not need that lower gear,plus as much as I hate to say it GM was smart getting that Allison trans which is known for being legendary. More torque is not the issue or is the torque converter,it's the what the trans is programmed for(tire size).Nothing else matters for keeping the 45RFE(545RFE) alive being full electronic trans. |
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| Author: | mass-hole [ Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help with 4.10 Re-Gearing |
WWDiesel wrote: Science and Energy wrote: Or, maybe I should just jump from full torque Eco Tune to Hot Tune. If it drives this nice now I can't see 4.10 being needed with another 30 foot pounds of torque. 295 to 365 is a 24% jump in torque. I doubt 8.7% larger wheels needs re-gearing when that much additional torque is available. Re-gearing to 4.10 from 3.73 is a 10% reduction in in gearing. Does this sound reasonable to everyone else too? Watch this test of three new 2017 1 ton diesel duallys, Dodge, Ford, & Chevy pulling the exact same 22.8k load up a long continuous uphill grade in Colorado. The Dodge and Ford both had 411 gears while the Chevy had 373 gears and it actually outperformed the 411's in the grade pulling test. Most interesting! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GxztJit22A There are so many variables there that its a bad example. The Ram only had 385hp to the Fords 440 and chevy's 445. All made in the low 900's torque. The Chevy performed like it should. The Ford performed worse than you would expect and the Ram did what it was supposed too as well. There was far more than different gearing going on there. At this point though, we are getting so many transmission gears that the axle ratios dont even really matter. The new F150 has a 10 speed, so no matter what axle ratio you have it will pretty much find the perfect gear for the job. Ford is running 3.55's in its Max tow configuration and GM runs 3.42's in their 1500 max tow. |
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