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 Post subject: Jeep Liberty CRD broken timing belt
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 12:20 pm 
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Location: Orlando, FL
I just bought a 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD with 140k from the original owner. He seemed to be knowledge and kept up with all the regular maintenance but he didn't realize it had a timing belt so he never changed it and it broke. Since it broke no one has opened the engine or done anything. I've been wanting a diesel Liberty for a while and when this deal came up I just couldn't pass


So down to business, what am I in for? I know these are interference engines so when the belt breaks I'm sure the valves got a little love tap. I'm imagining the rocker arms failed as designed and I've already made a nice little cart on ID parts for it. I'm going to order a new set of rocker arms and replace those and the timing belt and reset the timing. My question to you guys is: am I missing anything? Should I pull the head and verify the valves or should I leave it as it is and just replace the rockers and don't disturb the integrity of the head gasket. This is not a super low budget repair but I'm definitely on a budget. The previous owner said there was no coolant or oil loss so I'm pretty sure the head gasket is fine as it sits. I'm picking the car up on Tuesday and I'm just trying to learn what I can before I dive into it.

Thanks, Jack


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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Liberty CRD broken timing belt
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 1:22 pm 
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You’re going to be going in pretty deep. It’s not something you want to do twice.
Sooo...

Pull the head, take it to a machine shop, and have it checked for flatness, cracks, and bent valves. And maybe even replace the exhaust valves.
Get the intake manifold cleaned too.
Get new rocker arms.
New head gasket.
ARP head studs.
Delete the EGR.
Replace the water pump and all pulleys along with timing belt.

Oh, and thermostat. Replace the whole housing.
Don’t do the in hose thermostat thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Liberty CRD broken timing belt
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 4:27 pm 
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I'm still dealing with the aftermath of a 'slipped' timing belt, which broke all 8 rockers on the exhaust side. My intake side was ok, because they weren't that far out of time.
If your belt 'broke', you might be only looking at just a few of the rockers being broke.

You can get just the rocker individually, for about 150 bucks for a set of 16. I'd personally replace all of them regardless of how many are actually broke. I replaced just the rocker part because I figured the 80k mile lifters should have a lot of life left in them. (they don't actually wear against the cam, they just pump up the center section to take up lash)
Originally, I was only going to just replace those broken parts. And 9 out of 10 members have done so with good results.

The broke rockers are supposed to 'prevent' a catastrophic failure.. You should be 'ok' with just fixing what is broke.

I'm number 10, that went a little deeper with the head removal, and found other 'non timing belt failure related issues'.
Since I needed to split the engine away from the trans for a convertor upgrade, I figured it was 'kill 2 birds with 1 stone' to pull the engine and work on it out of the vehicle.
I found no evidence of bent valves, mucked up pistons, or any other reason to have the head off, "other than putting on a new head gasket, and head studs".

You are going to be ankle deep into this project, just to fix the rocker arms... and only a few more hours and you be able to do all the Flash7210 mentioned 'upgrades' for getting a LOT more dependable miles from your new purchase.

'ankle deep' may not seem too deep when standing upright.... unfortunately, this is a heads first operation. :wink:

_________________
2006 KJ CRD, bought 9/11/14, 70,500 miles. Circulating Rotella T6 5w-40
11-3-14 oem stat installed
11-5-14 gen II FH installed.
Sasquatch elbow kit, samcos, GDE eco FT. 11-26-14
80,500 miles, engine is disassembled, awaiting parts 3/18
Budget?? Sure! 'Everything I have'.
New "Pet" name for My Jeep; 'Soul Sucker'


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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Liberty CRD broken timing belt
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 5:12 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 5:40 pm
Posts: 78
Location: Orlando, FL
flash7210 wrote:
You’re going to be going in pretty deep. It’s not something you want to do twice.
Sooo...

Pull the head, take it to a machine shop, and have it checked for flatness, cracks, and bent valves. And maybe even replace the exhaust valves.
Get the intake manifold cleaned too.
Get new rocker arms.
New head gasket.
ARP head studs.
Delete the EGR.
Replace the water pump and all pulleys along with timing belt.

Oh, and thermostat. Replace the whole housing.
Don’t do the in hose thermostat thing.


There really aren't any machine shops near me with reasonable rates and I don't want to slaughter my budget. ARP studs are definitely out of my budget for now, maybe with later upgrades or if I have head problems down the road. I am paying 800$ for the Liberty so I'm not really crazy about adding unnecessary upgrades. I am planning on getting rid of the EGR and maybe doing a DIY tune. I am going to replace the water pump and thermostat.


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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Liberty CRD broken timing belt
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 5:40 pm
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rancherman wrote:
I'm still dealing with the aftermath of a 'slipped' timing belt, which broke all 8 rockers on the exhaust side. My intake side was ok, because they weren't that far out of time.
If your belt 'broke', you might be only looking at just a few of the rockers being broke.

You can get just the rocker individually, for about 150 bucks for a set of 16. I'd personally replace all of them regardless of how many are actually broke. I replaced just the rocker part because I figured the 80k mile lifters should have a lot of life left in them. (they don't actually wear against the cam, they just pump up the center section to take up lash)
Originally, I was only going to just replace those broken parts. And 9 out of 10 members have done so with good results.

The broke rockers are supposed to 'prevent' a catastrophic failure.. You should be 'ok' with just fixing what is broke.

I'm number 10, that went a little deeper with the head removal, and found other 'non timing belt failure related issues'.
Since I needed to split the engine away from the trans for a convertor upgrade, I figured it was 'kill 2 birds with 1 stone' to pull the engine and work on it out of the vehicle.
I found no evidence of bent valves, mucked up pistons, or any other reason to have the head off, "other than putting on a new head gasket, and head studs".

You are going to be ankle deep into this project, just to fix the rocker arms... and only a few more hours and you be able to do all the Flash7210 mentioned 'upgrades' for getting a LOT more dependable miles from your new purchase.

'ankle deep' may not seem too deep when standing upright.... unfortunately, this is a heads first operation. :wink:


I'll look into the upgrades but because I'm only spending 800$ on the liberty I don't want to jump into spending a crazy amount of money quite yet. Do you think I can get away with not pulling the head? I can't afford ARP studs and I don't really want to have to land a new head gasket if I mess up the current perfectly good one. I'm planning on just replacing all the rocker arms and the lifters by buying the whole set from ID parts but if the consensus is I'm fine with replacing the broken rockers and not even bothering with the lifters then I'll do that.


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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Liberty CRD broken timing belt
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 5:45 pm 
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Location: Tallahassee, Florida
My :2cents: you can do it cheap or you can do it right and if you do it cheap you will likely have to do it right later. Starting with you apparently only have $800 invested in a KJ CRD with a broken timing belt. To fix that you will need a timing belt kit from idParts including the front 1/2 of the water pump and the serpentine belt and a FULL set of rockers/lifters (I would not try to go cheap and only replace the broken ones). You do not immediately need a new thermostat as that's easy to replace later (no inline shortcut though) if the running engine does not normally reach full operating temp. To deal with the rockers/lifters the valve cover/cam holder/intake has to come off so clean the intake while it's off the engine; you can delete the EGR with a simple and cheap blanking plate and if you have a PC for the nominal cost of a cable you can load a free EGR tune that will disable the EGR CEL.

Does the head have to come off. Maybe and if it was me I would take it off. But if the fluid in the coolant tank is "clean" (e.g. no black oil stains) and there is no coolant in the oil there is a good chance the head and head gasket are ok. HOWEVER, even if so I would strongly advise installing ARP studs (can be done one at a time without disturbing the head or head gasket) to prevent any future head problems. Note as far as I know ARP studs are reusable if you ever to have to pull the head.

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Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs


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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Liberty CRD broken timing belt
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 5:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:43 am
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If you have a cooling system pressure tester, there are some tests you can do to determine if you have a head gasket leak or a cracked head.
You might be ok on the stock head bolts provided that you don’t turn up the boost and you keep the cooling system healthy.

Oh, and you might want to consider changing your glow plugs.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Liberty CRD broken timing belt
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 6:19 pm 
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Location: Orlando, FL
papaindigo wrote:
My :2cents: you can do it cheap or you can do it right and if you do it cheap you will likely have to do it right later. Starting with you apparently only have $800 invested in a KJ CRD with a broken timing belt. To fix that you will need a timing belt kit from idParts including the front 1/2 of the water pump and the serpentine belt and a FULL set of rockers/lifters (I would not try to go cheap and only replace the broken ones). You do not immediately need a new thermostat as that's easy to replace later (no inline shortcut though) if the running engine does not normally reach full operating temp. To deal with the rockers/lifters the valve cover/cam holder/intake has to come off so clean the intake while it's off the engine; you can delete the EGR with a simple and cheap blanking plate and if you have a PC for the nominal cost of a cable you can load a free EGR tune that will disable the EGR CEL.

Does the head have to come off. Maybe and if it was me I would take it off. But if the fluid in the coolant tank is "clean" (e.g. no black oil stains) and there is no coolant in the oil there is a good chance the head and head gasket are ok. HOWEVER, even if so I would strongly advise installing ARP studs (can be done one at a time without disturbing the head or head gasket) to prevent any future head problems. Note as far as I know ARP studs are reusable if you ever to have to pull the head.


The previous owner had driven it every single mile since new and claims there are no head issues. The coolant doesn't show any signs of oil intrusion and vice versa. Should I really try and budget for ARP studs? I was going to try and leave the head alone because as far as I have seen it's integrity is intact and because the CRD is a second vehicle it wouldn't be the end of the world if I had to go back into the head 70-100k later. Is there any actual benefit to removing the EGR engine code by programming it out or should I just leave it? I own a few nicer scantools and I scan my vehicles at every oil change anyway so another CEL error wouldn't get overlooked just because the light is already on. I am a current Liberty owner, I have a 2002 3.7l so I am already familiar with the rest of the car. Is there anything else I should do/know?


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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Liberty CRD broken timing belt
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 6:20 pm 
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Location: Orlando, FL
flash7210 wrote:
If you have a cooling system pressure tester, there are some tests you can do to determine if you have a head gasket leak or a cracked head.
You might be ok on the stock head bolts provided that you don’t turn up the boost and you keep the cooling system healthy.

Oh, and you might want to consider changing your glow plugs.


I do believe it has the original 7v plugs. Should I keep the 7v or change to 5v? I live in FL and below freezing starts would be rare for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Liberty CRD broken timing belt
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 6:56 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:22 pm
Posts: 393
Location: north central Nebraska
Jackkep wrote:
rancherman wrote:
I'm still dealing with the aftermath of a 'slipped' timing belt, which broke all 8 rockers on the exhaust side. My intake side was ok, because they weren't that far out of time.
If your belt 'broke', you might be only looking at just a few of the rockers being broke.

You can get just the rocker individually, for about 150 bucks for a set of 16. I'd personally replace all of them regardless of how many are actually broke. I replaced just the rocker part because I figured the 80k mile lifters should have a lot of life left in them. (they don't actually wear against the cam, they just pump up the center section to take up lash)
Originally, I was only going to just replace those broken parts. And 9 out of 10 members have done so with good results.

The broke rockers are supposed to 'prevent' a catastrophic failure.. You should be 'ok' with just fixing what is broke.

I'm number 10, that went a little deeper with the head removal, and found other 'non timing belt failure related issues'.
Since I needed to split the engine away from the trans for a convertor upgrade, I figured it was 'kill 2 birds with 1 stone' to pull the engine and work on it out of the vehicle.
I found no evidence of bent valves, mucked up pistons, or any other reason to have the head off, "other than putting on a new head gasket, and head studs".

You are going to be ankle deep into this project, just to fix the rocker arms... and only a few more hours and you be able to do all the Flash7210 mentioned 'upgrades' for getting a LOT more dependable miles from your new purchase.

'ankle deep' may not seem too deep when standing upright.... unfortunately, this is a heads first operation. :wink:


I'll look into the upgrades but because I'm only spending 800$ on the liberty I don't want to jump into spending a crazy amount of money quite yet. Do you think I can get away with not pulling the head? I can't afford ARP studs and I don't really want to have to land a new head gasket if I mess up the current perfectly good one. I'm planning on just replacing all the rocker arms and the lifters by buying the whole set from ID parts but if the consensus is I'm fine with replacing the broken rockers and not even bothering with the lifters then I'll do that.

Understood.
I guess, it's your TIME that is going to be the expensive part. Parts seem to be readily available, and if anything, slightly cheaper than say 10 years ago.
Snag a test kit to test your coolant for exhaust contamination. Not all blown head gaskets put oil in the coolant. If it does show oil, I'd suspect the oil cooler before the head gasket.
If you have a head gasket that isn't leaking at this time, sure. Fix what is broke. But remember, this will be only a short term until the next time you are 10-12 hours away from being this close to popping the head off, instead of only a couple.
First thing; can you do the wrenching part yourself? (tools, space, time, etc?)

My thoughts on head bolts;
They lasted yours about 140k, assuming they are still original. Some guys seen less, some more, some quite a bit more.

For about 140 bucks, you get the gasket, and new bolts. Starting over with a good clean. flat head and new gasket and bolts 'should' get you by for quite a few years.

Mine with 80k wasn't officially 'blown'... but there were signs of it leaning that way.. I'm certainly glad I pulled the head to inspect.

As far as saving some bucks on the head, I went with a 'good used, low houred take off' from VmSpecialist in England.
They claim they are taken off of low hour, 'test, development, and salvaged for parts on warrantee returns'.
Said to be fully checked, tested, and ready for service. Basically all is up to spec. ~400 bucks.
Mine is enroute as we speak. A member told me his looked good out of the box, and has been running it since.

Head shops better know the specs on this head; They'll have to do a valve job to get the valves correct for installed height.. This is very important. If they take off say, .005 to regain flatness, they also need to 'sink' the valves the same amount. I don't recommend anything other than a light 'skimming', more for regaining the proper ra (surface roughness). These heads are nickel plated, not to mention they are fairly thin in places. The nickel is there to keep the aluminum from galling against the head gasket Aluminum heads crawl all over the place when they are heated up, and cooled down. Plus it helps on corrosion when to dissimilar metals are in contact (cast block, steel gasket, and finally the aluminum head) Then throw in an electrical charge from all the neat electronics underhood..
I really doubt there is a head shop that would touch these heads for less $$$ than what I have coming in next week. Get the wrong head guy standing over it... and you may be sorry, and still out 500-600 bucks.
Honestly, I was going to re use my old head, but time and my machinist's back log of jobs put me WAAAY out of the schedule..
I'm going to keep my old head, test it for cracks, flatness, then put in new exhaust valves for the 'next time' I'm staring at the opened up engine.
So, yes; you can do it the cheaper way, which I have no problem with, but understand this won't be the last time you'll need to be 'deep'. If you do it all yourself, the R and R part anyway, it's easier to swallow than paying a shop 140 bucks an hour

_________________
2006 KJ CRD, bought 9/11/14, 70,500 miles. Circulating Rotella T6 5w-40
11-3-14 oem stat installed
11-5-14 gen II FH installed.
Sasquatch elbow kit, samcos, GDE eco FT. 11-26-14
80,500 miles, engine is disassembled, awaiting parts 3/18
Budget?? Sure! 'Everything I have'.
New "Pet" name for My Jeep; 'Soul Sucker'


Last edited by rancherman on Sat May 26, 2018 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Liberty CRD broken timing belt
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 7:02 pm 
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The problem with the factory original ceramic glow plugs is that they have a tendency to break and cause engine damage.
So switching to a steel tipped 7volt glow plug or a 5 volt is just a precautionary measure.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Liberty CRD broken timing belt
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 8:43 pm 
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flash has a good point re a pressure test, easy and cheap, to check for possible head gasket issue and you can probably run a chemical test for exhaust in the coolant fairly cheaply. I'm still of the opinion that if the head is still "sealed" ok (e.g. no head gasket leak) then ARP studs are cheap insurance (you are already in far enough to do them when replacing the rockers/lifters) against a head gasket failure and possibly the need for a replacement head which is $s and repeating your work.

Yes if you still have the OEM ceramic glow plugs get rid of them ASAP. IIRC the consensus is 5v steel work ok if you keep the 7v programming.

Blocking the EGR keeps soot out of your engine but triggers a CEL. Why would you not want to turn off that CEL with a free program? Not turning it off is an automatic failure if you have emissions tests and more importantly with the CEL on all the time you cannot see a real new CEL.

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Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs


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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Liberty CRD broken timing belt
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 9:36 pm 
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papaindigo wrote:
flash has a good point re a pressure test, easy and cheap, to check for possible head gasket issue and you can probably run a chemical test for exhaust in the coolant fairly cheaply. I'm still of the opinion that if the head is still "sealed" ok (e.g. no head gasket leak) then ARP studs are cheap insurance (you are already in far enough to do them when replacing the rockers/lifters) against a head gasket failure and possibly the need for a replacement head which is $s and repeating your work.

Yes if you still have the OEM ceramic glow plugs get rid of them ASAP. IIRC the consensus is 5v steel work ok if you keep the 7v programming.

Blocking the EGR keeps soot out of your engine but triggers a CEL. Why would you not want to turn off that CEL with a free program? Not turning it off is an automatic failure if you have emissions tests and more importantly with the CEL on all the time you cannot see a real new CEL.


I can't do a pressure test when the engine doesn't run because the timing belt is broken. Should I get 5v or just steel tipped 7v. What are the advantages? I found the post about the DIY tune and I will order that cable and setup the software. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Liberty CRD broken timing belt
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 9:49 pm 
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rancherman wrote:
Jackkep wrote:
rancherman wrote:
I'm still dealing with the aftermath of a 'slipped' timing belt, which broke all 8 rockers on the exhaust side. My intake side was ok, because they weren't that far out of time.
If your belt 'broke', you might be only looking at just a few of the rockers being broke.

You can get just the rocker individually, for about 150 bucks for a set of 16. I'd personally replace all of them regardless of how many are actually broke. I replaced just the rocker part because I figured the 80k mile lifters should have a lot of life left in them. (they don't actually wear against the cam, they just pump up the center section to take up lash)
Originally, I was only going to just replace those broken parts. And 9 out of 10 members have done so with good results.

The broke rockers are supposed to 'prevent' a catastrophic failure.. You should be 'ok' with just fixing what is broke.

I'm number 10, that went a little deeper with the head removal, and found other 'non timing belt failure related issues'.
Since I needed to split the engine away from the trans for a convertor upgrade, I figured it was 'kill 2 birds with 1 stone' to pull the engine and work on it out of the vehicle.
I found no evidence of bent valves, mucked up pistons, or any other reason to have the head off, "other than putting on a new head gasket, and head studs".

You are going to be ankle deep into this project, just to fix the rocker arms... and only a few more hours and you be able to do all the Flash7210 mentioned 'upgrades' for getting a LOT more dependable miles from your new purchase.

'ankle deep' may not seem too deep when standing upright.... unfortunately, this is a heads first operation. :wink:


I'll look into the upgrades but because I'm only spending 800$ on the liberty I don't want to jump into spending a crazy amount of money quite yet. Do you think I can get away with not pulling the head? I can't afford ARP studs and I don't really want to have to land a new head gasket if I mess up the current perfectly good one. I'm planning on just replacing all the rocker arms and the lifters by buying the whole set from ID parts but if the consensus is I'm fine with replacing the broken rockers and not even bothering with the lifters then I'll do that.

Understood.
I guess, it's your TIME that is going to be the expensive part. Parts seem to be readily available, and if anything, slightly cheaper than say 10 years ago.
Snag a test kit to test your coolant for exhaust contamination. Not all blown head gaskets put oil in the coolant. If it does show oil, I'd suspect the oil cooler before the head gasket.
If you have a head gasket that isn't leaking at this time, sure. Fix what is broke. But remember, this will be only a short term until the next time you are 10-12 hours away from being this close to popping the head off, instead of only a couple.
First thing; can you do the wrenching part yourself? (tools, space, time, etc?)

My thoughts on head bolts;
They lasted yours about 140k, assuming they are still original. Some guys seen less, some more, some quite a bit more.

For about 140 bucks, you get the gasket, and new bolts. Starting over with a good clean. flat head and new gasket and bolts 'should' get you by for quite a few years.

Mine with 80k wasn't officially 'blown'... but there were signs of it leaning that way.. I'm certainly glad I pulled the head to inspect.

As far as saving some bucks on the head, I went with a 'good used, low houred take off' from VmSpecialist in England.
They claim they are taken off of low hour, 'test, development, and salvaged for parts on warrantee returns'.
Said to be fully checked, tested, and ready for service. Basically all is up to spec. ~400 bucks.
Mine is enroute as we speak. A member told me his looked good out of the box, and has been running it since.

Head shops better know the specs on this head; They'll have to do a valve job to get the valves correct for installed height.. This is very important. If they take off say, .005 to regain flatness, they also need to 'sink' the valves the same amount. I don't recommend anything other than a light 'skimming', more for regaining the proper ra (surface roughness). These heads are nickel plated, not to mention they are fairly thin in places. The nickel is there to keep the aluminum from galling against the head gasket Aluminum heads crawl all over the place when they are heated up, and cooled down. Plus it helps on corrosion when to dissimilar metals are in contact (cast block, steel gasket, and finally the aluminum head) Then throw in an electrical charge from all the neat electronics underhood..
I really doubt there is a head shop that would touch these heads for less $$$ than what I have coming in next week. Get the wrong head guy standing over it... and you may be sorry, and still out 500-600 bucks.
Honestly, I was going to re use my old head, but time and my machinist's back log of jobs put me WAAAY out of the schedule..
I'm going to keep my old head, test it for cracks, flatness, then put in new exhaust valves for the 'next time' I'm staring at the opened up engine.
So, yes; you can do it the cheaper way, which I have no problem with, but understand this won't be the last time you'll need to be 'deep'. If you do it all yourself, the R and R part anyway, it's easier to swallow than paying a shop 140 bucks an hour


I can't afford a new head right now and I'm not just going to replace the gasket unless I'm replacing the head so I think I'll wait for that. I do all my wrenching myself and I have quite an extensive collection of tools so I'm not paying shop time for anything. I just don't know anything about this engine. So at this point I'm doing a whole new set of rockers and lifters, new timing pulleys and tensioners, new belt, and probably new glow plugs. Is there anything I'm missing?


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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Liberty CRD broken timing belt
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 10:45 pm 
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Pardon me for asking this question, but don’t you think your expectations are a bit too high? For the price you pay, I think you already get a good deal, if you’d scrap the vehicle I think you’d get roughly the same money, if not more.

This being said, get it, and when you are willing to spend the money to properly fix it, only then do it. Don’t do a half assed job bc you’ll regret later, when you’ll be left stranded in the middle of the road. Budget all the costs you can foresee and see if you’re willing to eat them.

I’d say budget at the very minimum 2-3,000 for the proper engine fix. You’ll need at least that. If you’re not willing to pay that much, I’d say still get it and part it out. You’d probably make easy 1-2,000 more.

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2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.


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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Liberty CRD broken timing belt
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 10:52 pm 
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thermorex wrote:
Pardon me for asking this question, but don’t you think your expectations are a bit too high? For the price you pay, I think you already get a good deal, if you’d scrap the vehicle I think you’d get roughly the same money, if not more.

This being said, get it, and when you are willing to spend the money to properly fix it, only then do it. Don’t do a half assed job bc you’ll regret later, when you’ll be left stranded in the middle of the road. Budget all the costs you can foresee and see if you’re willing to eat them.

I’d say budget at the very minimum 2-3,000 for the proper engine fix. You’ll need at least that. If you’re not willing to pay that much, I’d say still get it and part it out. You’d probably make easy 1-2,000 more.


After doing more research I really do agree. There is no world where I'd scrap it or sell it. I'm keeping it until it's totalled or stolen. I do happen to already have a gas Liberty that I daily which I just put a new engine in (well new to me, junkyard special). I don't really know where the 2-3k figure is coming from however. Even if I replaced the head and head gasket I wouldn't be hitting that much. I'd be doing all the work on my own so shop costs aren't an issue. Anything else you'd recommend?


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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Liberty CRD broken timing belt
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 11:09 pm 
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Is there anything else anyone thinks I need to know that someone in this thread hasn't covered yet?


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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Liberty CRD broken timing belt
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 12:01 am 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
Jackkep wrote:
I can't afford a new head right now and I'm not just going to replace the gasket unless I'm replacing the head so I think I'll wait for that. I do all my wrenching myself and I have quite an extensive collection of tools so I'm not paying shop time for anything. I just don't know anything about this engine. So at this point I'm doing a whole new set of rockers and lifters, new timing pulleys and tensioners, new belt, and probably new glow plugs. Is there anything I'm missing?

1) Water pump. Don't forget the water pump. It is a wear item, and driven by the timing belt. It is critical for timing belt longevity.
Unlike a gasser you can't just change it when it starts leaking. It will have caused the timing belt to fail before that happens.
Recommend getting a timing belt kit from IDParts. It has everything you need.

2) This is only my opinion, but were I in your shoes, If you absolutely cannot afford ARP studs, at very least put in new TTY head bolts. The moving around described above, is kind of a big deal regarding head gasket life, and the TTY bolts lose their elasticity over time.
Since you already have the original head bolts exposed, you would be wise to install a new set in same manner as ARP studs are installed without removing the head. One at a time to full torque procedure in order of factory torque sequence At least then, you will have restored the head bolt elasticity it came with new, and a set of original bolts is a small fraction of ARP studs.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Liberty CRD broken timing belt
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 12:16 am 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
Jackkep wrote:
I can't afford a new head right now and I'm not just going to replace the gasket unless I'm replacing the head so I think I'll wait for that. I do all my wrenching myself and I have quite an extensive collection of tools so I'm not paying shop time for anything. I just don't know anything about this engine. So at this point I'm doing a whole new set of rockers and lifters, new timing pulleys and tensioners, new belt, and probably new glow plugs. Is there anything I'm missing?

1) Water pump. Don't forget the water pump. It is a wear item, and driven by the timing belt. It is critical for timing belt longevity.
Unlike a gasser you can't just change it when it starts leaking. It will have caused the timing belt to fail before that happens.
Recommend getting a timing belt kit from IDParts. It has everything you need.

2) This is only my opinion, but were I in your shoes, If you absolutely cannot afford ARP studs, at very least put in new TTY head bolts. The moving around described above, is kind of a big deal regarding head gasket life, and the TTY bolts lose their elasticity over time.
Since you already have the original head bolts exposed, you would be wise to install a new set in same manner as ARP studs are installed without removing the head. One at a time to full torque procedure in order of factory torque sequence At least then, you will have restored the head bolt elasticity it came with new, and a set of original bolts is a small fraction of ARP studs.


From my understanding the water pump is a 2 part unit and I only need to replace the front portion which does not disturb the seal. Is that true? Anything else I should do that the original owner may have neglected that's specific to this engine? Thanks for your input.


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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Liberty CRD broken timing belt
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 12:33 am 
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Are the valve cover bolts TTY and is the gasket reusable?


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