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 Post subject: Running warm - sometimes...
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 5:03 am 
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Location: Central KY
Been searching threads but can't find anything similar.

This is my father's 2005 KJ with just now 90,000 miles.

Last summer on a road trip we drove about 800 miles over/through the Smokey Mountains no problem. Week later, same trip and it ran hot on the long grades, turned off AC, opened windows and ran heater and it cooled back down.

I drained a bit of coolant and it looked clean and fine. Checked for debris between CAC & evap and it was clean, fins fine too. Electric fan works, mechanical fan turns but not tested it for full engagement yet.

This past weekend made a 500 mile round trip but no mountains, just hills. Ambient temps in upper 80's low 90's, just two people, back packs and AC on. Went hot almost immediately (went to 3/4 mark) so I turned off AC and it came down. Once on the parkway at 70-75mph it was fine but in slower traffic it would creep up and in hills it would do the same. On return trip, same conditions, it behaved perfectly normal - stayed just before 12 o'clock.

What would come and go like that? I never let it go past the 3/4 mark, it never puked coolant or went into limp mode. I don't suspect erratic gauge or senders because it would heat up in the "expected" situations. But why some days and not others? Sticking thermostat?

He's only had it less than 2 years. Only changes we're aware of is PO changed timing belt right before purchase.

Ideas? Thoughts? Questions?

Thanks,

_________________
2005 Liberty CRD, with 135,XXX miles. Rockers, exhaust valves, Provent, EGR block & butterfly delete & V6 air box at 100K

1998 XJ 4.0L, stock with 130,XXX miles

First Jeep: 1962 Willys CJ-3B


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 Post subject: Re: Running warm - sometimes...
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:57 am 
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Location: Green Cove Springs FL
The factory temp gauge sucks and doesn't tell you exactly what the temp is.
Without knowing the exact temp, its impossible to know if your engine is running to hot or not.
Also, many 2005 CRDs have a improperly calibrated temp gauge, which only complicates things even more.

I suspect that one or both of your fans isn't pulling enough air. Most likely the fan clutch.
And what thermostat are you using? Might be time for a new one.
A good ol' fashion coolant flush couldn't hurt either. Just make sure you are using the correct coolant.

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 Post subject: Re: Running warm - sometimes...
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 8:14 am 
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More than likely the problem is the fan clutch. If it is the OEM clutch with 101k, it is most likely worn out.
Have it replaced or replace it yourself and see if that cures the problem.
Only use an OEM (Mopar), NAPA, or Haden replacement clutch as most all others are made in China junk.... :roll:

Part No's
OEM -- 55037733AD
NAPA -- TEM 271653
Hayden - Severe Duty Fan Clutch P/N 2905

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
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Week's BatteryTray
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 Post subject: Re: Running warm - sometimes...
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 9:04 pm 
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Location: Central KY
Dad's just turned 90K (mine has 101K). Far as we know it is original thermostat and original fan clutch.

I was aware of the erratic temp gauge but this one went up when I expected it to and back down as well. Forgot to take my temp gun, that would have helped a lot.

Guess we can try and change the fan clutch as a maintenance item anyway and see what that does.

Haydens seem to have questionable quality or is that fixed now? I get a discount at NAPA, I can price that and see.

Thanks,

_________________
2005 Liberty CRD, with 135,XXX miles. Rockers, exhaust valves, Provent, EGR block & butterfly delete & V6 air box at 100K

1998 XJ 4.0L, stock with 130,XXX miles

First Jeep: 1962 Willys CJ-3B


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 Post subject: Re: Running warm - sometimes...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:00 pm 
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I don't believe you will go wrong with the NAPA; that is what I am running on two of my vehicles right now. :D

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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 Post subject: Re: Running warm - sometimes...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 2:14 pm 
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Location: Tallahassee, Florida
Flash7210's post to the contrary the KJ CRD temp gauge does not suck rather it's just non-linear; see viewtopic.php?f=5&t=75890&view=previous for an image of what the various needle positions "mean" relative to actual engine coolant temp. NOTE actual temps (likely from the sending unit on the back of the tstat housing) are reported to the ECU and can be read with a compatible scan tool. Chances are if your temp gauge hit 3/4s it's running hot but:
1. could be a bad sending unit - check actual temp with IR gun at top of tstat housing
2. yes some 05s had a miscalibrated temp gauge (set for gasser not CRD) but I doubt that's your problem as that calibration showed 3/4 reading on dead flat road just feet above sealevel pulling a light boat at 65mph with AC on (my vehicle). A dealer can check and fix in 10-15 minutes under a TSB (08-043-05 AUG 05) but they will charge say $100 for the scan if that's no the problem.

Possible causes:
1. condenser/radiator stack clogged with debris - reverse flush with water
2. AC fan not running - bad fan motor; low freon; bad freon pressure switch
3. bad mechanical fan clutch - replace as noted
4. mixing in antifreeze that's not HOAT and clogging radiator - drain and flush as needed.
5. bad tstat - unlikely as they generally fail open and cause engine to run cool

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Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs


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 Post subject: Re: Running warm - sometimes...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:56 pm 
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Just went through something very similar to this. The thread on that is here, but the summary version is this:

When we bought the KJ, it had multiple cooling system issues that took months to completely figure out. A lot of this came down to changes in the seasons showing up different weaknesses, but it had a dead fan clutch, dead thermostat (I'll highly recommend the HDS Model 001 if you can stretch to it), dubious-at-best radiator, and radiator hoses that looked OK on the outside but that could have been collapsing under motion.

Each item was changed at different times: fan clutch first, then the thermostat in Winter (driving in 9°F weather with no heat really sucked), then the fan clutch again (multiple times, along with an upgrade to a GM heavy-duty fan clutch and 11-blade fan), then finally the radiator and hoses. This process started at around 112,000 miles and finished up at 120,000.

The reason I mention this is that you may be looking at a multi-layered problem. From the descriptions you're giving, the fan clutch is likely a goner, so start there. Move on the thermostat next, then the radiator and hoses. I'm picking these in ascending order of cost, but modify as necessary if something obviously wrong crops up.

Good luck - hopefully yours isn't in as dire need of everything as ours was.

_________________
2005 KJ CRD Limited 4x4:
245/75R16 BFG TA KO2s
OME / Clevis 2.5" Lift
JBA Lifted A-Arms
IRO WJ Short Rear UCA/WWDiesel mount
Skid Row Skidplates
HDS Model 001 Thermostat (190°F)
Suncoast TC
Full Weeks Kit
Bosch 5V glow plugs
Hayden 2986 fan clutch / GM 11-blade fan
Samco / Sasquatch Intake Hoses
Carter in-tank pump
Provent 200
V6 Airbox


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 Post subject: Re: Running warm - sometimes...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:17 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:33 am
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Location: Central KY
I hate those multi-layered issues...

Got the NAPA fan clutch for $54.

I'll look into the coolant again, we assume PO replaced with HOAT when he did the timing belt...

_________________
2005 Liberty CRD, with 135,XXX miles. Rockers, exhaust valves, Provent, EGR block & butterfly delete & V6 air box at 100K

1998 XJ 4.0L, stock with 130,XXX miles

First Jeep: 1962 Willys CJ-3B


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 Post subject: Re: Running warm - sometimes...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:11 am 
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krb wrote:
I hate those multi-layered issues...


Me too ;) That's one thing about cooling systems that drives me up the wall - you can fix a problem that only shows itself in the Summer, then find in Winter that there was more going on than just the thing you took care of three or four months previously.

Quote:
Got the NAPA fan clutch for $54.


Definitely a good start. Give some consideration to the 11-blade fan and fan clutch upgrade; it's made a world of difference to the A/C performance in our CRD.

Quote:
I'll look into the coolant again, we assume PO replaced with HOAT when he did the timing belt...


Based on the need to replace the radiator in ours, I suspect that at some point someone mixed coolant types. This led to the radiator being borderline at best, which only really showed itself once A/C weather hit.

Replacing the radiator sucks - you have to tear the front end apart. Not difficult, but time-consuming. On the plus side, it'll give you easy access to the serpentine belt as well as the timing belt cover, so if you want to check or replace anything in those general areas you've at least done everything you need to do in order to access them.

_________________
2005 KJ CRD Limited 4x4:
245/75R16 BFG TA KO2s
OME / Clevis 2.5" Lift
JBA Lifted A-Arms
IRO WJ Short Rear UCA/WWDiesel mount
Skid Row Skidplates
HDS Model 001 Thermostat (190°F)
Suncoast TC
Full Weeks Kit
Bosch 5V glow plugs
Hayden 2986 fan clutch / GM 11-blade fan
Samco / Sasquatch Intake Hoses
Carter in-tank pump
Provent 200
V6 Airbox


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 Post subject: Re: Running warm - sometimes...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:38 am 
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casm wrote:
Definitely a good start. Give some consideration to the 11-blade fan and fan clutch upgrade; it's made a world of difference to the A/C performance in our CRD

Agreed! As I have shared in the past, the 11 blade GM fan & HD V8 clutch made a world of difference to my Jeep's AC performance in slow stop & go traffic during in town driving.
That is why I am a big advocate of this mod.... :D

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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 Post subject: Re: Running warm - sometimes...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:40 pm 
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Location: Shelton, WA
WWDiesel wrote:
casm wrote:
Definitely a good start. Give some consideration to the 11-blade fan and fan clutch upgrade; it's made a world of difference to the A/C performance in our CRD

Agreed! As I have shared in the past, the 11 blade GM fan & HD V8 clutch made a world of difference to my Jeep's AC performance in slow stop & go traffic during in town driving.
That is why I am a big advocate of this mod.... :D


I bought one of those Hot Diesel Solutions billet thermostat housings and my viscous heater has never come on. The jeep always runs right in the middle of the gauge no matter the conditions and the cabin heat is great, very satisfied. I did buy the 11 blade fan but during the rebuild of the head I could not find where I put the new fan I bought. Then found the fan after the rig was back together. DOH

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Purchased 2006 LIberty CRD 82K 01/16
SS Cat Back Exhaust, Full EGR Delete,Provent, Michelin 245/70 R16 AT/2
Stock Tune, Serpentine Belt Service,160 Amp Alternator
10/17 96K, New Head, Injectors, ARP Studs, HDS T-Stat
04/18 99K, New Reman Trans
09/18 104K, Lift Pump
01/19 106K, OME Lift, Eaton TruTrac LSD in new rebuilt diff


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 Post subject: Re: Running warm - sometimes...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:05 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:27 pm
Posts: 110
I have a year on my Hayden fan. Working too good. Been running cool last winter. Even with my aftermarket thermostat mod and blocking grille openings.

Cooler mornings I still hear the roar of it locked up until the clutch warms up.

_________________
Now have GDE full torque eco tune and eco transmission tune. Used an 02 liberty trans computer for my new trans tune.


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 Post subject: Re: Running warm - sometimes...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:09 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:29 pm
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dennyb wrote:
I have a year on my Hayden fan. Working too good. Been running cool last winter. Even with my aftermarket thermostat mod and blocking grille openings.

Cooler mornings I still hear the roar of it locked up until the clutch warms up.



What kind of aftermarket thermostat modification do you have?


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 Post subject: Re: Running warm - sometimes...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:08 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:33 am
Posts: 412
Location: Central KY
casm wrote:
krb wrote:
I hate those multi-layered issues...


Me too ;) That's one thing about cooling systems that drives me up the wall - you can fix a problem that only shows itself in the Summer, then find in Winter that there was more going on than just the thing you took care of three or four months previously.

Quote:
Got the NAPA fan clutch for $54.


Definitely a good start. Give some consideration to the 11-blade fan and fan clutch upgrade; it's made a world of difference to the A/C performance in our CRD.

Quote:
I'll look into the coolant again, we assume PO replaced with HOAT when he did the timing belt...


Based on the need to replace the radiator in ours, I suspect that at some point someone mixed coolant types. This led to the radiator being borderline at best, which only really showed itself once A/C weather hit.

Replacing the radiator sucks - you have to tear the front end apart. Not difficult, but time-consuming. On the plus side, it'll give you easy access to the serpentine belt as well as the timing belt cover, so if you want to check or replace anything in those general areas you've at least done everything you need to do in order to access them.


I thought HOAT was ethylene glycol but just with special additives? Is it not compatible? I was on a road trip a while back and low on coolant. The only place I could find had the type of antifreeze that is compatible with all types and that is what I used. Did that screw things up?

_________________
2005 Liberty CRD, with 135,XXX miles. Rockers, exhaust valves, Provent, EGR block & butterfly delete & V6 air box at 100K

1998 XJ 4.0L, stock with 130,XXX miles

First Jeep: 1962 Willys CJ-3B


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 Post subject: Re: Running warm - sometimes...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:26 pm 
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krb wrote:
I thought HOAT was ethylene glycol but just with special additives? Is it not compatible? I was on a road trip a while back and low on coolant. The only place I could find had the type of antifreeze that is compatible with all types and that is what I used. Did that screw things up?

The term "Universal Coolant" seems like a contradiction because of all the different antifreeze requirements and different chemistry makeups.

Zerex HOAT* G 05 is a nitrite containing coolant designed to protect diesel engine cylinder liners from cavitation.
*Hybrid Organic Acid Technology (HOAT) chemistry combines the best of conventional and organic acid-based chemistry to provide the ultimate protection against rust and corrosion.
ZEREX G-05 antifreeze/coolant uses the highest quality virgin ethylene glycol for freeze and boilover protection and a hybrid organic acid corrosion inhibitor package to protect your engines from liner pitting and corrosion.

Zerex G 05 antifreeze coolant is approved, meets or exceeds the performance requirements of the following antifreeze specifications and/or recommended practices:
    DaimlerChrysler MS 9769 Approved
    Ford WSS-M97B51-A1 Approved
    MTU/DDC Approved
    Detroit Diesel 7SE298
    Deere & Company Approved
    Mercedes Benz Approved
    Cummins 14603 Approved
    ASTM D6210
    Perkins Diesel
    CAT
    GM 1825M / GM 1899M
    TMC of the ATA RP 329
    GE Wind Turbines

:SOMBRERO:

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Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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 Post subject: Re: Running warm - sometimes...
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:01 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:33 am
Posts: 412
Location: Central KY
I use Zerex G-05 in my 5.9 Cummins. I guess for simplicity I'll use the same in the KJ.
Thanks,

_________________
2005 Liberty CRD, with 135,XXX miles. Rockers, exhaust valves, Provent, EGR block & butterfly delete & V6 air box at 100K

1998 XJ 4.0L, stock with 130,XXX miles

First Jeep: 1962 Willys CJ-3B


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 Post subject: Re: Running warm - sometimes...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:47 am
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Location: Riverside,Ca.
I wouldn't suggest the haydon fan clutch. I replaced mine about a year ago. I recently bought a travel trailer and any hill I go over, the jeep starts to get warm, then almost to the H. I went out today after doing some reading here and low and behold, my fan spins freely. I'm not happy about it since it means more physical work to replace it. The cost bugs me but still.. just makes me upset. I'll get the napa one and hope that it lasts for atleast a few years.


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 Post subject: Re: Running warm - sometimes...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:27 pm 
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Tree Catcher wrote:
I wouldn't suggest the haydon fan clutch. I replaced mine about a year ago. I recently bought a travel trailer and any hill I go over, the jeep starts to get warm, then almost to the H. I went out today after doing some reading here and low and behold, my fan spins freely. I'm not happy about it since it means more physical work to replace it. The cost bugs me but still.. just makes me upset. I'll get the napa one and hope that it lasts for atleast a few years.



Do what WWDiesel says and get the GM 11 blade fan and fan clutch upgrade. This is probably the most cost effective upgrade for those CRD owners who tow.

The other option would be to convert to an electric cooling fan... something out of a Volvo or a Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor. It has been said that this electric fan has the same CFM pull as the O.E. mechanical fan at full lock up. I saw the electric fan from a police cruiser... skookum unit!


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