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| Running warm - sometimes... http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=88820 |
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| Author: | krb [ Wed May 30, 2018 5:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Running warm - sometimes... |
Been searching threads but can't find anything similar. This is my father's 2005 KJ with just now 90,000 miles. Last summer on a road trip we drove about 800 miles over/through the Smokey Mountains no problem. Week later, same trip and it ran hot on the long grades, turned off AC, opened windows and ran heater and it cooled back down. I drained a bit of coolant and it looked clean and fine. Checked for debris between CAC & evap and it was clean, fins fine too. Electric fan works, mechanical fan turns but not tested it for full engagement yet. This past weekend made a 500 mile round trip but no mountains, just hills. Ambient temps in upper 80's low 90's, just two people, back packs and AC on. Went hot almost immediately (went to 3/4 mark) so I turned off AC and it came down. Once on the parkway at 70-75mph it was fine but in slower traffic it would creep up and in hills it would do the same. On return trip, same conditions, it behaved perfectly normal - stayed just before 12 o'clock. What would come and go like that? I never let it go past the 3/4 mark, it never puked coolant or went into limp mode. I don't suspect erratic gauge or senders because it would heat up in the "expected" situations. But why some days and not others? Sticking thermostat? He's only had it less than 2 years. Only changes we're aware of is PO changed timing belt right before purchase. Ideas? Thoughts? Questions? Thanks, |
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| Author: | flash7210 [ Wed May 30, 2018 7:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Running warm - sometimes... |
The factory temp gauge sucks and doesn't tell you exactly what the temp is. Without knowing the exact temp, its impossible to know if your engine is running to hot or not. Also, many 2005 CRDs have a improperly calibrated temp gauge, which only complicates things even more. I suspect that one or both of your fans isn't pulling enough air. Most likely the fan clutch. And what thermostat are you using? Might be time for a new one. A good ol' fashion coolant flush couldn't hurt either. Just make sure you are using the correct coolant. |
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| Author: | WWDiesel [ Wed May 30, 2018 8:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Running warm - sometimes... |
More than likely the problem is the fan clutch. If it is the OEM clutch with 101k, it is most likely worn out. Have it replaced or replace it yourself and see if that cures the problem. Only use an OEM (Mopar), NAPA, or Haden replacement clutch as most all others are made in China junk....  Part No's OEM -- 55037733AD NAPA -- TEM 271653 Hayden - Severe Duty Fan Clutch P/N 2905 |
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| Author: | krb [ Wed May 30, 2018 9:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Running warm - sometimes... |
Dad's just turned 90K (mine has 101K). Far as we know it is original thermostat and original fan clutch. I was aware of the erratic temp gauge but this one went up when I expected it to and back down as well. Forgot to take my temp gun, that would have helped a lot. Guess we can try and change the fan clutch as a maintenance item anyway and see what that does. Haydens seem to have questionable quality or is that fixed now? I get a discount at NAPA, I can price that and see. Thanks, |
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| Author: | WWDiesel [ Thu May 31, 2018 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Running warm - sometimes... |
I don't believe you will go wrong with the NAPA; that is what I am running on two of my vehicles right now. 
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Thu May 31, 2018 2:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Running warm - sometimes... |
Flash7210's post to the contrary the KJ CRD temp gauge does not suck rather it's just non-linear; see viewtopic.php?f=5&t=75890&view=previous for an image of what the various needle positions "mean" relative to actual engine coolant temp. NOTE actual temps (likely from the sending unit on the back of the tstat housing) are reported to the ECU and can be read with a compatible scan tool. Chances are if your temp gauge hit 3/4s it's running hot but: 1. could be a bad sending unit - check actual temp with IR gun at top of tstat housing 2. yes some 05s had a miscalibrated temp gauge (set for gasser not CRD) but I doubt that's your problem as that calibration showed 3/4 reading on dead flat road just feet above sealevel pulling a light boat at 65mph with AC on (my vehicle). A dealer can check and fix in 10-15 minutes under a TSB (08-043-05 AUG 05) but they will charge say $100 for the scan if that's no the problem. Possible causes: 1. condenser/radiator stack clogged with debris - reverse flush with water 2. AC fan not running - bad fan motor; low freon; bad freon pressure switch 3. bad mechanical fan clutch - replace as noted 4. mixing in antifreeze that's not HOAT and clogging radiator - drain and flush as needed. 5. bad tstat - unlikely as they generally fail open and cause engine to run cool |
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| Author: | casm [ Thu May 31, 2018 8:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Running warm - sometimes... |
Just went through something very similar to this. The thread on that is here, but the summary version is this: When we bought the KJ, it had multiple cooling system issues that took months to completely figure out. A lot of this came down to changes in the seasons showing up different weaknesses, but it had a dead fan clutch, dead thermostat (I'll highly recommend the HDS Model 001 if you can stretch to it), dubious-at-best radiator, and radiator hoses that looked OK on the outside but that could have been collapsing under motion. Each item was changed at different times: fan clutch first, then the thermostat in Winter (driving in 9°F weather with no heat really sucked), then the fan clutch again (multiple times, along with an upgrade to a GM heavy-duty fan clutch and 11-blade fan), then finally the radiator and hoses. This process started at around 112,000 miles and finished up at 120,000. The reason I mention this is that you may be looking at a multi-layered problem. From the descriptions you're giving, the fan clutch is likely a goner, so start there. Move on the thermostat next, then the radiator and hoses. I'm picking these in ascending order of cost, but modify as necessary if something obviously wrong crops up. Good luck - hopefully yours isn't in as dire need of everything as ours was. |
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| Author: | krb [ Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Running warm - sometimes... |
I hate those multi-layered issues... Got the NAPA fan clutch for $54. I'll look into the coolant again, we assume PO replaced with HOAT when he did the timing belt... |
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| Author: | casm [ Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Running warm - sometimes... |
krb wrote: I hate those multi-layered issues... Me too  That's one thing about cooling systems that drives me up the wall - you can fix a problem that only shows itself in the Summer, then find in Winter that there was more going on than just the thing you took care of three or four months previously.Quote: Got the NAPA fan clutch for $54. Definitely a good start. Give some consideration to the 11-blade fan and fan clutch upgrade; it's made a world of difference to the A/C performance in our CRD. Quote: I'll look into the coolant again, we assume PO replaced with HOAT when he did the timing belt... Based on the need to replace the radiator in ours, I suspect that at some point someone mixed coolant types. This led to the radiator being borderline at best, which only really showed itself once A/C weather hit. Replacing the radiator sucks - you have to tear the front end apart. Not difficult, but time-consuming. On the plus side, it'll give you easy access to the serpentine belt as well as the timing belt cover, so if you want to check or replace anything in those general areas you've at least done everything you need to do in order to access them. |
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| Author: | WWDiesel [ Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Running warm - sometimes... |
casm wrote: Definitely a good start. Give some consideration to the 11-blade fan and fan clutch upgrade; it's made a world of difference to the A/C performance in our CRD Agreed! As I have shared in the past, the 11 blade GM fan & HD V8 clutch made a world of difference to my Jeep's AC performance in slow stop & go traffic during in town driving. That is why I am a big advocate of this mod....
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| Author: | vwroad87 [ Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Running warm - sometimes... |
WWDiesel wrote: casm wrote: Definitely a good start. Give some consideration to the 11-blade fan and fan clutch upgrade; it's made a world of difference to the A/C performance in our CRD Agreed! As I have shared in the past, the 11 blade GM fan & HD V8 clutch made a world of difference to my Jeep's AC performance in slow stop & go traffic during in town driving. That is why I am a big advocate of this mod.... I bought one of those Hot Diesel Solutions billet thermostat housings and my viscous heater has never come on. The jeep always runs right in the middle of the gauge no matter the conditions and the cabin heat is great, very satisfied. I did buy the 11 blade fan but during the rebuild of the head I could not find where I put the new fan I bought. Then found the fan after the rig was back together. DOH |
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| Author: | dennyb [ Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Running warm - sometimes... |
I have a year on my Hayden fan. Working too good. Been running cool last winter. Even with my aftermarket thermostat mod and blocking grille openings. Cooler mornings I still hear the roar of it locked up until the clutch warms up. |
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| Author: | TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK [ Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Running warm - sometimes... |
dennyb wrote: I have a year on my Hayden fan. Working too good. Been running cool last winter. Even with my aftermarket thermostat mod and blocking grille openings. Cooler mornings I still hear the roar of it locked up until the clutch warms up. What kind of aftermarket thermostat modification do you have? |
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| Author: | krb [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Running warm - sometimes... |
casm wrote: krb wrote: I hate those multi-layered issues... Me too That's one thing about cooling systems that drives me up the wall - you can fix a problem that only shows itself in the Summer, then find in Winter that there was more going on than just the thing you took care of three or four months previously.Quote: Got the NAPA fan clutch for $54. Definitely a good start. Give some consideration to the 11-blade fan and fan clutch upgrade; it's made a world of difference to the A/C performance in our CRD. Quote: I'll look into the coolant again, we assume PO replaced with HOAT when he did the timing belt... Based on the need to replace the radiator in ours, I suspect that at some point someone mixed coolant types. This led to the radiator being borderline at best, which only really showed itself once A/C weather hit. Replacing the radiator sucks - you have to tear the front end apart. Not difficult, but time-consuming. On the plus side, it'll give you easy access to the serpentine belt as well as the timing belt cover, so if you want to check or replace anything in those general areas you've at least done everything you need to do in order to access them. I thought HOAT was ethylene glycol but just with special additives? Is it not compatible? I was on a road trip a while back and low on coolant. The only place I could find had the type of antifreeze that is compatible with all types and that is what I used. Did that screw things up? |
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| Author: | WWDiesel [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Running warm - sometimes... |
krb wrote: I thought HOAT was ethylene glycol but just with special additives? Is it not compatible? I was on a road trip a while back and low on coolant. The only place I could find had the type of antifreeze that is compatible with all types and that is what I used. Did that screw things up? The term "Universal Coolant" seems like a contradiction because of all the different antifreeze requirements and different chemistry makeups. Zerex HOAT* G 05 is a nitrite containing coolant designed to protect diesel engine cylinder liners from cavitation. *Hybrid Organic Acid Technology (HOAT) chemistry combines the best of conventional and organic acid-based chemistry to provide the ultimate protection against rust and corrosion. ZEREX G-05 antifreeze/coolant uses the highest quality virgin ethylene glycol for freeze and boilover protection and a hybrid organic acid corrosion inhibitor package to protect your engines from liner pitting and corrosion. Zerex G 05 antifreeze coolant is approved, meets or exceeds the performance requirements of the following antifreeze specifications and/or recommended practices:
Ford WSS-M97B51-A1 Approved MTU/DDC Approved Detroit Diesel 7SE298 Deere & Company Approved Mercedes Benz Approved Cummins 14603 Approved ASTM D6210 Perkins Diesel CAT GM 1825M / GM 1899M TMC of the ATA RP 329 GE Wind Turbines 
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| Author: | krb [ Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Running warm - sometimes... |
I use Zerex G-05 in my 5.9 Cummins. I guess for simplicity I'll use the same in the KJ. Thanks, |
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| Author: | Tree Catcher [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Running warm - sometimes... |
I wouldn't suggest the haydon fan clutch. I replaced mine about a year ago. I recently bought a travel trailer and any hill I go over, the jeep starts to get warm, then almost to the H. I went out today after doing some reading here and low and behold, my fan spins freely. I'm not happy about it since it means more physical work to replace it. The cost bugs me but still.. just makes me upset. I'll get the napa one and hope that it lasts for atleast a few years. |
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| Author: | TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Running warm - sometimes... |
Tree Catcher wrote: I wouldn't suggest the haydon fan clutch. I replaced mine about a year ago. I recently bought a travel trailer and any hill I go over, the jeep starts to get warm, then almost to the H. I went out today after doing some reading here and low and behold, my fan spins freely. I'm not happy about it since it means more physical work to replace it. The cost bugs me but still.. just makes me upset. I'll get the napa one and hope that it lasts for atleast a few years. Do what WWDiesel says and get the GM 11 blade fan and fan clutch upgrade. This is probably the most cost effective upgrade for those CRD owners who tow. The other option would be to convert to an electric cooling fan... something out of a Volvo or a Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor. It has been said that this electric fan has the same CFM pull as the O.E. mechanical fan at full lock up. I saw the electric fan from a police cruiser... skookum unit! |
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