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 Post subject: Re: Cranks no start
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:41 am 
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OK my main suspect is that the lead coming out of fuse #16 (15A) which had blown has an issue on it somewhere. This provides +12 volts to the ECM as does Fuse #6 and Fuse #26 in the PDC.
It also provides +12 volts to various solenoids and relays which may pull down the voltage a bit without blowing a fuse. The wiring may at first have shorted to chassis, blown the fuse and ruptured the wiring.

So turning to the 2005 KJ Wiring Diagrams which I presume you have downloaded at http://www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ with the ignition ON take your digital volt meter and check for +12 volts on Page 8W-30-25 at both sides of fuses 6,16 and 26....should be +12 volts there.

Then check for this voltage at the ECM on the Brown/Pink wires at Connector C2 pins 1 and 3 and C2 pin 5 on Brown/Red wire. Best is to strap the black lead of the meter to chassis and strap a pin or needle to the Red meter lead and carefully piece the wire to be tested with the pin/needle so as to break through the insulation....you can fill the holes made by the pin with some glue later.

If you do not have +12 volts at the ECM connectors trace backwards to pin 87 of the ASD relay which should be energized when ignition is ON....if there is not a SKIS error! Connectors C117, C105 and C111 are in series with these +12 volt feed lines to the ECM. If pin 87 of ASD relay is not at +12 volts then the relay is bad or is not being energized....you can remove the ASD relay and jumper pins 30 to 87 inside the empty relay socket as a test.

Also check connector C2 at the ECM pins 2,4,6 are at ground....Black/Dark Green wires.

Let me know the results of your measurements....there are plenty other places where the wiring could go wrong but there must have been a reason for the fuse to have blown in the first place so best to start here. :wink:

Edit to add: The ASD relay output going missing really should solidly light up the SKIS red LED on left side of the cluster...test if the LED is OK by holding IN the Odometer Reset pushbutton while turning ignition ON.

A better manual for these CEL codes may be the 2006 KJ Service Manual as there is a good DTC index at the end which directs you to things to check but bear in mind the changes between models. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Cranks no start
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:02 pm 
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Billybob wrote:
OK my main suspect is that the lead coming out of fuse #16 (15A) which had blown has an issue on it somewhere. This provides +12 volts to the ECM as does Fuse #6 and Fuse #26 in the PDC.
It also provides +12 volts to various solenoids and relays which may pull down the voltage a bit without blowing a fuse. The wiring may at first have shorted to chassis, blown the fuse and ruptured the wiring.

So turning to the 2005 KJ Wiring Diagrams which I presume you have downloaded at http://www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ with the ignition ON take your digital volt meter and check for +12 volts on Page 8W-30-25 at both sides of fuses 6,16 and 26....should be +12 volts there.

Then check for this voltage at the ECM on the Brown/Pink wires at Connector C2 pins 1 and 3 and C2 pin 5 on Brown/Red wire. Best is to strap the black lead of the meter to chassis and strap a pin or needle to the Red meter lead and carefully piece the wire to be tested with the pin/needle so as to break through the insulation....you can fill the holes made by the pin with some glue later.

If you do not have +12 volts at the ECM connectors trace backwards to pin 87 of the ASD relay which should be energized when ignition is ON....if there is not a SKIS error! Connectors C117, C105 and C111 are in series with these +12 volt feed lines to the ECM. If pin 87 of ASD relay is not at +12 volts then the relay is bad or is not being energized....you can remove the ASD relay and jumper pins 30 to 87 inside the empty relay socket as a test.

Also check connector C2 at the ECM pins 2,4,6 are at ground....Black/Dark Green wires.

Let me know the results of your measurements....there are plenty other places where the wiring could go wrong but there must have been a reason for the fuse to have blown in the first place so best to start here. :wink:

Edit to add: The ASD relay output going missing really should solidly light up the SKIS red LED on left side of the cluster...test if the LED is OK by holding IN the Odometer Reset push button while turning ignition ON.

A better manual for these CEL codes may be the 2006 KJ Service Manual as there is a good DTC index at the end which directs you to things to check but bear in mind the changes between models. :wink:


Hello, BillyBob .. I just checked the LED on the dash, and it is working OK.



I think I found the culprit..... 2 chaffed ground wires near the left headlight possibly making contact while the car was in motion... repaired that.

I'll be working around the fuel pump area this weekend and i'll then see if this little beast returns to life.

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 Post subject: Re: Cranks no start
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:58 pm 
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racertracer wrote:
I think I found the culprit..... 2 chaffed ground wires near the left headlight possibly making contact while the car was in motion... repaired that.
I'll be working around the fuel pump area this weekend and i'll then see if this little beast returns to life.

Post some pictures of what you found if you can. Others may learn from your experiences.... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Cranks no start
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:52 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
Post some pictures of what you found if you can. Others may learn from your experiences.... :roll:


WWdiesel, these two chafed ground wires were previously installed by me to replace the rusted ground wires under the headlight. The new wires were supposed have repaired the bad ground connection but did not.

I did not take a picture. The battery tray and battery are back in place. If I have to go back in there, then I will take a photo.

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 Post subject: Re: Cranks no start
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:28 am 
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IIRC geordi posted a picture of that ground point but I don't have access to a copy.

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 Post subject: Re: Cranks no start
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:44 am 
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racertracer wrote:
WWdiesel, these two chafed ground wires were previously installed by me to replace the rusted ground wires under the headlight. The new wires were supposed have repaired the bad ground connection but did not.
I did not take a picture. The battery tray and battery are back in place. If I have to go back in there, then I will take a photo.

Pictures I took a couple years back when I checked those grounds in TWO different locations on my Jeep.
First ground is the one behind the left front headlight on top of the fender, second ground is on the firewall behind the brake booster.

Image Image

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Last edited by WWDiesel on Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cranks no start
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:02 am 
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WWDiesel wrote:
racertracer wrote:
WWdiesel, these two chafed ground wires were previously installed by me to replace the rusted ground wires under the headlight. The new wires were supposed have repaired the bad ground connection but did not.
I did not take a picture. The battery tray and battery are back in place. If I have to go back in there, then I will take a photo.

Pictures I took a couple years back when I checked those grounds in TWO different locations on my Jeep.
First groundis the one behind the left front headlight on top of the fender, second ground is on the firewall behind the brake booster.

Image Image


WW.. YouTheMan.. Thankyou

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 Post subject: Re: Cranks no start
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:19 pm 
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Third one is on back of the left inner fender, kinda under the brake master cylinder.

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 Post subject: Re: Cranks no start
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:23 pm 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
Third one is on back of the left inner fender, kinda under the brake master cylinder.

Got a picture of it, i'll add it to the others?

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 Post subject: Re: Cranks no start
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:25 pm 
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Well.... It's not the pump. But I hear 5 consecutive
Clicks from egr valve when I turn the key. Fuses are ok, Cranks but still no start. I have no idea how to proceed to further diagnose this issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Cranks no start
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:43 am 
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Do you have any codes stored? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Cranks no start
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:32 am 
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Yes.

1. P0091 Fuel Pressure Regulator 1 Control Circuit Low
2. P0193 Fuel rail pressure sensor circuit high input
3. P0652 Low Voltage at the #1 Sensor Supply Circuit
4. P2295 Fuel Pressure Regulator 2 Control Circuit Low

I Replaced the fuel rail and fuel rail sensors.

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2005 Liberty Sport CRD, Deep Beryl Green, GDE Hot Tune, ARP studs. "Rocket"
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 Post subject: Re: Cranks no start
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:49 am 
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Billybob wrote:
OK my main suspect is that the lead coming out of fuse #16 (15A) which had blown has an issue on it somewhere. This provides +12 volts to the ECM as does Fuse #6 and Fuse #26 in the PDC.
It also provides +12 volts to various solenoids and relays which may pull down the voltage a bit without blowing a fuse. The wiring may at first have shorted to chassis, blown the fuse and ruptured the wiring.

So turning to the 2005 KJ Wiring Diagrams which I presume you have downloaded at http://www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ with the ignition ON take your digital volt meter and check for +12 volts on Page 8W-30-25 at both sides of fuses 6,16 and 26....should be +12 volts there.

Then check for this voltage at the ECM on the Brown/Pink wires at Connector C2 pins 1 and 3 and C2 pin 5 on Brown/Red wire. Best is to strap the black lead of the meter to chassis and strap a pin or needle to the Red meter lead and carefully piece the wire to be tested with the pin/needle so as to break through the insulation....you can fill the holes made by the pin with some glue later.

If you do not have +12 volts at the ECM connectors trace backwards to pin 87 of the ASD relay which should be energized when ignition is ON....if there is not a SKIS error! Connectors C117, C105 and C111 are in series with these +12 volt feed lines to the ECM. If pin 87 of ASD relay is not at +12 volts then the relay is bad or is not being energized....you can remove the ASD relay and jumper pins 30 to 87 inside the empty relay socket as a test.

Also check connector C2 at the ECM pins 2,4,6 are at ground....Black/Dark Green wires.

Let me know the results of your measurements....there are plenty other places where the wiring could go wrong but there must have been a reason for the fuse to have blown in the first place so best to start here. :wink:

Edit to add: The ASD relay output going missing really should solidly light up the SKIS red LED on left side of the cluster...test if the LED is OK by holding IN the Odometer Reset pushbutton while turning ignition ON.

A better manual for these CEL codes may be the 2006 KJ Service Manual as there is a good DTC index at the end which directs you to things to check but bear in mind the changes between models. :wink:


I'm going to begin to decipher what i have to do to find this issue ... I have no electrical experience but I appreciate your guidance here.

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 Post subject: Re: Cranks no start
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:29 am 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
1. P0091 Fuel Pressure Regulator 1 Control Circuit Low Electronics regarding the FQS at the back of the CP3
2. P0193 Fuel rail pressure sensor circuit high input Electronics regarding Fuel Pressure Sensor in the middle of the rail
3. P0652 Low Voltage at the #1 Sensor Supply Circuit Electronics regarding the FQS at the back of the CP3
4. P2295 Fuel Pressure Regulator 2 Control Circuit Low Electronics regarding the FPS at the back of the rail.

Pin check Troubleshooting flow charts for all of these are in the factory service manuals online or if you've downloaded them as I have.

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'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
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cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

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Flowmaster 8325508
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GM 12611872
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 Post subject: Re: Cranks no start
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:12 am 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
1. P0091 Fuel Pressure Regulator 1 Control Circuit Low Electronics regarding the FQS at the back of the CP3
2. P0193 Fuel rail pressure sensor circuit high input Electronics regarding Fuel Pressure Sensor in the middle of the rail
3. P0652 Low Voltage at the #1 Sensor Supply Circuit Electronics regarding the FQS at the back of the CP3
4. P2295 Fuel Pressure Regulator 2 Control Circuit Low Electronics regarding the FPS at the back of the rail.

Pin check Troubleshooting flow charts for all of these are in the factory service manuals online or if you've downloaded them as I have.


1. P0091 Fuel Pressure Regulator 1 Control Circuit Low Electronics regarding the FQS at the back of the CP3

Swapped it with a good working unit.

2. P0193 Fuel rail pressure sensor circuit high input Electronics regarding Fuel Pressure Sensor in the middle of the rail

Swapped it with a good working unit.

3. P0652 Low Voltage at the #1 Sensor Supply Circuit Electronics regarding the FQS at the back of the CP3

Swapped it with a good working unit.

4. P2295 Fuel Pressure Regulator 2 Control Circuit Low Electronics regarding the FPS at the back of the rail.

swapped it with a good working unit.

Also replaced the starter with a good working unit.


It cranks but doesn't start.

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2005 Liberty Sport CRD, Deep Beryl Green, GDE Hot Tune, ARP studs. "Rocket"
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 Post subject: Re: Cranks no start
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:56 pm 
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It doesn't mean the units, it's the wiring/connectors/etc. Not the sensors themselves, although they could cause a no start condition. Good you know you truly have some known good units.

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'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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 Post subject: Re: Cranks no start
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:20 pm 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
It doesn't mean the units, it's the wiring/connectors/etc. Not the sensors themselves, although they could cause a no start condition. Good you know you truly have some known good units.


Yes check the harness very carefully, it took me almost 9 months of fiddling with my jeep on and off until I found this part of the harness. This caused 13 CELs to pop and the ASD fuse as well. This was near the A/C accumulator on the passenger side firewall on an exposed piece of harness :grim: Now it's taped and split loomed!

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Cranks no start
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:25 am 
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vwroad87 wrote:
GordnadoCRD wrote:
It doesn't mean the units, it's the wiring/connectors/etc. Not the sensors themselves, although they could cause a no start condition. Good you know you truly have some known good units.


Yes check the harness very carefully, it took me almost 9 months of fiddling with my jeep on and off until I found this part of the harness. This caused 13 CELs to pop and the ASD fuse as well. This was near the A/C accumulator on the passenger side firewall on an exposed piece of harness :grim: Now it's taped and split loomed!

Image


This is a good picture.....I suspect something like this is causing the problem here! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Cranks no start
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:30 am 
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vwroad87 wrote:
GordnadoCRD wrote:
It doesn't mean the units, it's the wiring/connectors/etc. Not the sensors themselves, although they could cause a no start condition. Good you know you truly have some known good units.


Yes check the harness very carefully, it took me almost 9 months of fiddling with my jeep on and off until I found this part of the harness. This caused 13 CELs to pop and the ASD fuse as well. This was near the A/C accumulator on the passenger side firewall on an exposed piece of harness :grim: Now it's taped and split loomed!

Image


I'll be going through the wiring next chance I get.

Also, I found the following information in a previous post .."The circuit grounds through the Front Control Module (FCM), not directly to ground." What is a "Front Control Module"?

This FCM is just to the side of where the chaffed ground wires that I found earlier were located.

"The Front Control Module (FCM) (2)(FRONT CONTROL MODULE) is located in the engine compartment below the Power Distribution Center (PDC), below the battery tray. The FCM's primary function is to define communications between electronic controllers and move data collected from the multiple controllers to the host controller for processing using Controller Area Network (CAN), Programmable Communication Interface (PCI) buss or J1850. The FCM does not contain any drivers, and therefore does not directly operate any vehicle components."

"the Front Control Module (Gateway module)controls the fuel level sensor, low oil pressure light, A/C pressure sensor, generator/alternator field control, and Water In Fuel Sensor"

The fuel codes I'm getting maybe due to this module being faulty since it controls the fuel level sensor.

This FCM is used in the 2005 CRD only.

FCM - Mopar part number 56044599AF = Part is no longer available from Chrysler, part has been discontinued.

Is anyone parting out a 2005 CRD that will sell their FCM?

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2005 Liberty Sport CRD, Deep Beryl Green, GDE Hot Tune, ARP studs. "Rocket"
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 Post subject: Re: Cranks no start
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:28 am 
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racertracer wrote:
This FCM is used in the 2005 CRD only.
FCM - Mopar part number 56044599AF

From your other post:> viewtopic.php?f=5&t=88975&p=927084#p927084

WWDiesel wrote:
Amazon:> https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Chrysler ... B013M88YCW

https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/mo ... 56044599af

dBay:> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... f&_sacat=0

You may be in luck?
According to what I have read, 2005 Liberty's including the V6 gassers all use this same front module 56044599af. So boneyards should have plenty of them? :wink:

:SOMBRERO:

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