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 Post subject: Re: 05 CRD stall then no start. Solved but I need help.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:10 am 
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Jackkep wrote:
So as it turns out, the timing had jumped a tooth in the tensioner was set a little loose. I was going to set the tension again and I misread the torque spec on the tensioner and popped the threads out. Am I screwed or can I Helicoil it? I've never used a Helicoil before. Should I just get a new rear timing cover? At least I know it's not a fuel delivery issue or anything else.....

Easily repaired. There are several alternatives from folks with that problem before. Just do a search. Pick the one you like best.

I haven't had to use it, but liked the one where a hardened stud replaces the bolt, and is permanently anchored in.

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 Post subject: Re: 05 CRD stall then no start. Solved but I need help.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:25 am 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
Jackkep wrote:
So as it turns out, the timing had jumped a tooth in the tensioner was set a little loose. I was going to set the tension again and I misread the torque spec on the tensioner and popped the threads out. Am I screwed or can I Helicoil it? I've never used a Helicoil before. Should I just get a new rear timing cover? At least I know it's not a fuel delivery issue or anything else.....

Easily repaired. There are several alternatives from folks with that problem before. Just do a search. Pick the one you like best.

I haven't had to use it, but liked the one where a hardened stud replaces the bolt, and is permanently anchored in.


Ok I'll start searching. My theory on what happened is this: There WAS air in the fuel lines and it was stalling due to that and I kept clearing the air and restarting fine. Then, since the timing belt is under a lot of stress during start up , and the tensioner was loose, the belt skipped on one of my start-up attempts. Do you think any damage was done by the belt skipping 1 tooth? It was exactly 1 tooth off. I just really hope it didn't tear up my brand new rockers :(

I'm more concerned about going through all the work to Helicoil the tensioner just to have to take everything apart again to replace a rocker or two and then dealing with rethreading into that Helicoil again on Final reinstallation


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 Post subject: Re: 05 CRD stall then no start. Jumped time? Fuel issue?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:48 am 
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One tooth jump should not do any harm. If the engine rotates freely (as freely as diesel can) without any knocks or clicks, you are out of the trouble by fixing the timing.

If the belt jumps several teeth or snaps, in diesel it normally means quite some damage as pistons will make close friendship with valves, but in your case I wouldn't worry about it.

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 Post subject: Re: 05 CRD stall then no start. Jumped time? Fuel issue?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:37 am 
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Quickest way to check rockers is just rotate each cam fully around a couple times. You’ll be able to hear and feel as each lobe rolls over the rockers on each cylinder. If one or more rockers are broke the rolling of the cam will be softer and quieter. I myself prefer using a stud for the tensioner. Either way your gonna have to take the rear timing cover off.

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 Post subject: Re: 05 CRD stall then no start. Jumped time. Tensioner threa
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:02 am 
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jws84_02 wrote:
Quickest way to check rockers is just rotate each cam fully around a couple times. You’ll be able to hear and feel as each lobe rolls over the rockers on each cylinder. If one or more rockers are broke the rolling of the cam will be softer and quieter. I myself prefer using a stud for the tensioner. Either way your gonna have to take the rear timing cover off.



How do I use a Helicoil? Which one do I buy? Why do I have to take the rear timing cover off? How do I get all the old threads out?


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 Post subject: Re: 05 CRD stall then no start. Jumped time? Fuel issue?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:24 pm 
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Oh I dunno, maybe because it will be easier to work on it whichever method you decide. Plus if there is confirmed rocker damage than it has to come off anyway

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 Post subject: Re: 05 CRD stall then no start. Jumped time? Fuel issue?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:04 pm 
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jws84_02 wrote:
Oh I dunno, maybe because it will be easier to work on it whichever method you decide. Plus if there is confirmed rocker damage than it has to come off anyway


The marks you see in this photo are the timing marks from when I re-timed the motor. In this position the crankshaft was in time with the lock pin inserted so as you can see the belt was one tooth off on both camshafts in comparison to the crankshaft

Do you think that would have caused any damage? I don't think so

I just don't understand how it went from running rough to not running at all. If I said my theory was that originally it skipped one tooth on one of the camshafts so it was running rough and then it skipped on the other camshaft causing it to just not run at all would that make sense?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/VZ9sUKD5PuXzHQrL9


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 Post subject: Re: 05 CRD stall then no start. Jumped time? Fuel issue?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:34 pm 
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Ah the good mark and pray method. The cams are infinite adjustable. I would rotate each cam seperate to confirm there isn’t rocker damage. Then put it back together with the correct timing belt method

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 Post subject: Re: 05 CRD stall then no start. Jumped time? Fuel issue?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:43 pm 
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jws84_02 wrote:
Ah the good mark and pray method. The cams are infinite adjustable. I would rotate each cam seperate to confirm there isn’t rocker damage. Then put it back together with the correct timing belt method


Mark and pray method? When rotating the cams there are stiff spots and then it springs forward and there's a short lull then stiffness again. Is that what I'm looking for? I really don't want to have to redo all the work I just did replacing the rockers the first time.


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 Post subject: Re: 05 CRD stall then no start. Jumped time? Fuel issue?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:14 pm 
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Yeah where you mark everything and then pray it’s correct. Instead of pinning, leaving the cam sprockets loose, tensioning the belt, then torquing the cam sprockets.

Anywho, yes, it will feel tough then spring forward. What your looking for is all 4 turns on each cam are the same. If a rocker is broke, it won’t be as tough and the spring forward won’t be as much

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 Post subject: Re: 05 CRD stall then no start. Jumped time? Fuel issue?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:52 pm 
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jws84_02 wrote:
Yeah where you mark everything and then pray it’s correct. Instead of pinning, leaving the cam sprockets loose, tensioning the belt, then torquing the cam sprockets.

Anywho, yes, it will feel tough then spring forward. What your looking for is all 4 turns on each cam are the same. If a rocker is broke, it won’t be as tough and the spring forward won’t be as much


No no I'm definitely pinning before setting anything for good. It's too expensive not to lol. I just left those marks as reference points in case something just like this happens so I can see if timing had jumped or changed. Since the crankshaft is locked at 90 degrees after top dead center I'd imagine I'm safe to turn the camshaft freely so I'm going to go check for the four turns on each side.


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 Post subject: Re: 05 CRD stall then no start. Jumped time? Fuel issue?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:12 pm 
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The exhaust cam rotates with far too much play. I'm counting on broken rockers again. Looks like I'm disassembling a second time and putting more money into this thing. I cannot afford to pull the head off and check the valves so I'm going to have to just put in new rockers and hope for the best. If the valves turn out damaged then I'm going to end up trying to sell this thing.


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 Post subject: Re: 05 CRD stall then no start. Solved but I need help.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:37 pm 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
Jackkep wrote:
So as it turns out, the timing had jumped a tooth in the tensioner was set a little loose. I was going to set the tension again and I misread the torque spec on the tensioner and popped the threads out. Am I screwed or can I Helicoil it? I've never used a Helicoil before. Should I just get a new rear timing cover? At least I know it's not a fuel delivery issue or anything else.....

Easily repaired. There are several alternatives from folks with that problem before. Just do a search. Pick the one you like best.

I haven't had to use it, but liked the one where a hardened stud replaces the bolt, and is permanently anchored in.


I like this idea.. I'll do a preemptive strike on mine while it's easy to get to.

Jack:
Did you find your tensioner stripped out, or did it strip out when you tried tightening it today? That may be your smoking gun..

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 Post subject: Re: 05 CRD stall then no start. Solved but I need help.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:07 pm 
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rancherman wrote:
GordnadoCRD wrote:
Jackkep wrote:
So as it turns out, the timing had jumped a tooth in the tensioner was set a little loose. I was going to set the tension again and I misread the torque spec on the tensioner and popped the threads out. Am I screwed or can I Helicoil it? I've never used a Helicoil before. Should I just get a new rear timing cover? At least I know it's not a fuel delivery issue or anything else.....

Easily repaired. There are several alternatives from folks with that problem before. Just do a search. Pick the one you like best.

I haven't had to use it, but liked the one where a hardened stud replaces the bolt, and is permanently anchored in.


I like this idea.. I'll do a preemptive strike on mine while it's easy to get to.

Jack:
Did you find your tensioner stripped out, or did it strip out when you tried tightening it today? That may be your smoking gun..


I stripped it out when I went to tighten it today. The tension was set loose before I tightened it so that was definitely the cause. I'm about 70% done with this disassembly so I can see how many rockers I'm going to have to replace again.

I'm really hoping I'll get lucky and the valves won't be damaged but I have a sneaking suspicion that after two different timing related issues that something's got to give and I may be forced to abandon this endeavor.


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 Post subject: Re: 05 CRD stall then no start. Jumped time? Fuel issue?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:19 pm 
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I got the engine pulled apart. It killed 8 exhaust rockers

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ShtSnUAMkuBYewnv8

I am considering reusing the eight good rockers from the first time I did the rocker job. They have a hundred and forty-two thousand miles on them but only have a little play.


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 Post subject: Re: 05 CRD stall then no start. Jumped time? Fuel issue?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:19 am 
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ONE tooth = ALL rockers!!

No wonder it couldn't run, with near-100% constipation! I couldn't either in that condition!

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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 Post subject: Re: 05 CRD stall then no start. Jumped time? Fuel issue?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:23 am 
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Things you might find helpful

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=82216&hilit=
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=86291&hilit=
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=75479&p=791405&hilit=

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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 Post subject: Re: 05 CRD stall then no start. Jumped time? Fuel issue?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:29 am 
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Jackkep wrote:
I got the engine pulled apart. It killed 8 exhaust rockers

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ShtSnUAMkuBYewnv8

I am considering reusing the eight good rockers from the first time I did the rocker job. They have a hundred and forty-two thousand miles on them but only have a little play.


With one tooth jump..? :shock: .. Ziisus, did,'t know CRD is that sensitive. I've lost a cam belt from rental Opel some years go but only thing what needed replacement was the belt. Well, it was gas engine, but still, I'm really surprised. And happy I had my cam belt changed last Thursday...

Wish you all the luck with valves, at least.

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 Post subject: Re: 05 CRD stall then no start. Jumped time? Fuel issue?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:26 am 
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You must really like doing this. Don’t put the old rockers back in

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 Post subject: Re: 05 CRD stall then no start. Jumped time? Fuel issue?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:42 am 
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jws84_02 wrote:
You must really like doing this. Don’t put the old rockers back in


A LOST member has offered to send me some rockers with 80k on them, that's probably preferable to my 140k rockers so I'll probably go that route.

I'm very against buying new again after wrecking the new rockers I just installed.

Well this wasn't a fun journey but at least I'll have my vehicle back soon.


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