05 CRD stall then no start. Jumped time? Fuel issue?

rancherman · **Posted:** Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:34 pm

Jack, what did you decide on the fix for the tensioner bolt threads?

Jackkep · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:27 pm

rancherman wrote:

Jack, what did you decide on the fix for the tensioner bolt threads?

I got a Helicoil kit from NAPA that worked great. I've been putting the engine back together and I ran into another problem. I went to set time and tension the belt, after doing so I removed all Lock Pins and went to rotate the engine by hand and the crankshaft gets bound up and stops turning. I am fairly certain my timing was correct on everything because the pins fit fine and with the crankshaft pin fully inserted it only had a mild amount of play which I used to get the belt tight between the crankshaft and the injection pump. I'm not very sure how to proceed

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:50 pm

Jackkep wrote:

rancherman wrote:

Jack, what did you decide on the fix for the tensioner bolt threads?

I got a Helicoil kit from NAPA that worked great. I've been putting the engine back together and I ran into another problem. I went to set time and tension the belt, after doing so I removed all Lock Pins and went to rotate the engine by hand and the crankshaft gets bound up and stops turning. I am fairly certain my timing was correct on everything because the pins fit fine and with the crankshaft pin fully inserted it only had a mild amount of play which I used to get the belt tight between the crankshaft and the injection pump. I'm not very sure how to proceed

Where was the mark on the crankshaft when you had the pins inserted? Was it at 3:00?
There are more than one hole in the flexplate (flywheel) where the alignment pin will screw in. :roll:

If it is binding up and will not make a complete rotation, it may be out of time and one of the pistons is making contact with a valve(s)?
DO NOT try and force it beyond this point or you may break something!

If you can rotate backwards to where the crankshaft mark/dimple is at 3:00, the cam pins should be lined up and allow them to be inserted.
IF NOT, set the crank at 3:00, insert flywheel pin, then remove timing tension and rotate cams until you can insert cam pins.
You may have to re-loosen the cam gear bolts using the proper holding holding tool to retension the belt properly after you get everything properly aligned again.

Very important! Having the crankshaft dimple mark at 3:00 will allow you to rotate the cams to any position as the pistons will ALL be setting at half travel which will not allow any valves to contact the tops of the pistons.

Post what you find!

Mark should be here:

Jackkep · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:23 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

Jackkep wrote:

rancherman wrote:

Jack, what did you decide on the fix for the tensioner bolt threads?

I got a Helicoil kit from NAPA that worked great. I've been putting the engine back together and I ran into another problem. I went to set time and tension the belt, after doing so I removed all Lock Pins and went to rotate the engine by hand and the crankshaft gets bound up and stops turning. I am fairly certain my timing was correct on everything because the pins fit fine and with the crankshaft pin fully inserted it only had a mild amount of play which I used to get the belt tight between the crankshaft and the injection pump. I'm not very sure how to proceed

Where was the mark on the crankshaft when you had the pins inserted? Was it at 3:00?
There are more than one hole in the flexplate (flywheel) where the alignment pin will screw in. :roll:

If it is binding up and will not make a complete rotation, it may be out of time and one of the pistons is making contact with a valve(s)?
DO NOT try and force it beyond this point or you may break something!

If you can rotate backwards to where the crankshaft mark/dimple is at 3:00, the cam pins should be lined up and allow them to be inserted.
IF NOT, set the crank at 3:00, insert flywheel pin, then remove timing tension and rotate cams until you can insert cam pins.
You may have to re-loosen the cam gear bolts using the proper holding holding tool to retension the belt properly after you get everything properly aligned again.

Very important! Having the crankshaft dimple mark at 3:00 will allow you to rotate the cams to any position as the pistons will ALL be setting at half travel which will not allow any valves to contact the tops of the pistons.

Post what you find!

Mark should be here:

I think I understand what you're saying. The phrasing was just a bit confusing. The cams are already locked in time. When I realized the crankshaft with binding up I didn't push anymore and I pulled the injectors out just to make sure there wasn't liquid or something hydrolocking the cylinders from when I had done all that fuel line work. I have removed the timing belt from the system and inserted a zip tie down the #1 injector hole to try and find 90° ATDC but it was late so I stopped for the night. So what I should be doing is attempting to rotate the crank to 3:00 and reinsert it's timing pin/drill bit and then reinstall the belt and turn it over by hand. If that doesn't work do I have to tear the valve cover off again and set the crankshaft time with the valves closed? Or is there a different tactic I can try?

EDIT: Re-read what you said and it totally makes sense. Will be home soon and I'll try and time it

rancherman · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:03 pm

As WW said, rotate the crank so that dimple is @ 3;00 This 3:00 reference is just for quickly finding the pin hole in the back of the block. That hole in the back is the only true position... and is kinda a bugger to find and align.

If it gets tight BEFORE you get to 3:00, STOP!!
Try rotating the opposite direction, but I'd suspect you'll find it getting tight again.

Cams will then need to come off, which closes all valves, allowing you to rotate the crank to it's timing position.
Once it's there, You can go ahead and rotate the cams all you want to get them also in time.

When you have the cams off, that is a good time to install their pins, it's easier to verify they are in the correct spot when the cover is already off.

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:33 pm

I’ll just add, you won’t need to take the cams/valve cover back off. Just rotate each cam until they spring forward. Then all the valves will be closed and you can rotate the crank to the witness mark at 3 o’clock.

Also, once you have the crank set dont move it, at all. When leaving the cam pulleys loose that will give you all the slack you need to slide the belt over the tensioner. Then tension the belt, and then torque the cam sprockets. Then rotate by hand to check timing

Jackkep · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:29 pm

jws84_02 wrote:

I’ll just add, you won’t need to take the cams/valve cover back off. Just rotate each cam until they spring forward. Then all the valves will be closed and you can rotate the crank to the witness mark at 3 o’clock.

Also, once you have the crank set dont move it, at all. When leaving the cam pulleys loose that will give you all the slack you need to slide the belt over the tensioner. Then tension the belt, and then torque the cam sprockets. Then rotate by hand to check timing

Rotate until they spin forward? They each spring forward 4 times? Does it not matter which time? I think I get what you're saying. So at any point when it has sprung closed all the valves on that cam are closed, correct? And I made marks on the sprockets and rear t cover indicating the camshaft time. So what you're saying I should do is spring the camshafts closed and then set crankshaft time and then re-time the cams with the marks and insert pins and then pull the cam pulleys loose to set the belt. Tighten Everything down and go for it?

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:04 pm

The cams will spring forward as many times as you turn them. But yes every time they spring forward what is happening is the cam lobe on one cylinder is rolling over the rocker. Once it springs forward then the cam lobe is off the rocker and valves are closed. Don’t worry about your marks, not sure those are correct. Once crank is at 3 o’Clock then you can rotate each cam until you get the locking pins in. If you have the cam sprockets off each cam has an indent. The intake side will be at 9 o’clock and the exhaust will be at 3.

Jackkep · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:11 pm

jws84_02 wrote:

The cams will spring forward as many times as you turn them. But yes every time they spring forward what is happening is the cam lobe on one cylinder is rolling over the rocker. Once it springs forward then the cam lobe is off the rocker and valves are closed. Don’t worry about your marks, not sure those are correct. Once crank is at 3 o’Clock then you can rotate each cam until you get the locking pins in. If you have the cam sprockets off each cam has an indent. The intake side will be at 9 o’clock and the exhaust will be at 3.

Perfect. I'll try that and report back. Thanks

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:17 pm

Correct. But you said you can’t rotate the engine and this is how you get the crank to the correct position. Plus you also said you moved the crank to get the belt on. You never want to do that, with the cams pinned that is now not correct timing. Plus every belt isn’t the same. This is why your suppose to leave the cam sprockets loose while tensioning to ensure proper timing

Jackkep · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:35 pm

jws84_02 wrote:

Correct. But you said you can’t rotate the engine and this is how you get the crank to the correct position. Plus you also said you moved the crank to get the belt on. You never want to do that, with the cams pinned that is now not correct timing. Plus every belt isn’t the same. This is why your suppose to leave the cam sprockets loose while tensioning to ensure proper timing

Understood. The original video I watched explained that I should take the locked crankshaft (even though it's locked it still has a little play) and turn it a little to get the last tooth between the injection pump and crank tight. Is that wrong? It may have been the corobotchicken video

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:49 pm

Yeah that is wrong. That’s why I was a smart ( * ) and said the good ole mark and pray method. Moving the crank only guarantees not perfect timing

Jackkep · **Posted:** Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:01 am

So I was able to set time with the crank at 3. I rotated the whole system by hand a couple times and reinserted the pens and they seated fine. The exhaust had some resistance behind it but I've been dealing with that since day one so I had to use some pliers to get the pin to seat right but it screwed all the way in. I then hooked up all the injectors and all my sensors and turned the key. A whole lot of cranking but a whole lot of nothing. Injector 4 is leaking a little bit of diesel. In the morning I'm going to try and fix that leak at the rail connection and see if that changes anything. No check engine codes and no anti-theft light issues. Just no start.

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:07 am

If you didn’t prime the fuel rail by spinning the injection pump until fuel comes out at the number 4 line than it will take a lot of cranking. Also the copper washers on the injectors are a one time use. If you already had the injectors torqued down and then removed them you now need new washers

Jackkep · **Posted:** Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:39 am

jws84_02 wrote:

If you didn’t prime the fuel rail by spinning the injection pump until fuel comes out at the number 4 line than it will take a lot of cranking. Also the copper washers on the injectors are a one time use. If you already had the injectors torqued down and then removed them you now need new washers

Fuel is actively leaking from the #4 injector where the rail line meets the injector, so I'd imagine diesel is available to all the injectors. I have reused the copper washers but I have ordered more. The seals are good, I tested by putting some water over each injector and cranking. No bubbles.

I'm going to fix the fuel leak and try again. It's a very minimal leak so I'm not sure if that's the cause of the no start but I'm not putting anything past this quirky engine.

Any other ideas as to why it's not starting? I'm sure all my sensors are plugged in and I'll triple check time later today.

Jackkep · **Posted:** Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:28 pm

Success! I got home today and I fixed the injector leak. It's still was not turning over so I went and double checked my work. Everything is hooked up correctly but it still wasn't starting. I decided to hook up my OBD tool and view some live data. The injector rail is not pressurizing. I unplugged the injector rail connections and plug them back in and disconnected my battery and reconnected it. I turn the key and it finally cranked up.

Here's a video of it running, it shakes a little bit and I'm not sure if that's normal. Also do you guys think it sounds normal? I never heard this thing run in good condition before because I bought it broken so I'm not really sure how they're supposed to sound

It's also due for an oil change so I'm going to do that once it's all back together

https://photos.app.goo.gl/BaCxnhAgco5vvPSY6

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:39 pm

Sounds clackier than normal. Part of that could be air in the fuel system or it could be combustion escaping through the injector holes since you re used the washers. To rule out the possibility of a rocker knocked off during cave cover installation. Pull the driver side cac tube off the intercooler. With it running see if there is any backpressure coming out the tube

Jackkep · **Posted:** Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:39 pm

jws84_02 wrote:

Sounds clackier than normal. Part of that could be air in the fuel system or it could be combustion escaping through the injector holes since you re used the washers. To rule out the possibility of a rocker knocked off during cave cover installation. Pull the driver side cac tube off the intercooler. With it running see if there is any backpressure coming out the tube

No back pressure coming from the tube

Jackkep · **Posted:** Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:22 pm

New issues..... The turbo seems whiny and it happy. When I originally got the car running the turbo sounded great but now it sounds a little high pitched and unhappy.

Secondly the number 4 injectors leaking still... It's leaking not from where the rail attaches to the injector but where the double male connector meets the injector. I'm going to try to put some plumbers tape on the threads and tighten it back down and see if that rectifies the issue

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:30 pm

Double male connector?

For the turbo, take the intake tube off and check for shaft play

05 CRD stall then no start. Jumped time? Fuel issue?

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