stalling CRD

mbdieselman · **Joined:** Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:28 pm **Posts:** 10

2005 2.8 CRD > 238,00 miles . Initially engine starts immediately , smooth , no vibration , no smoke , good power curve . timing on the mark , new pump ( $ ) , new injectors ( not rebuilt ) ( $ ) new rpm sensor (2) cam and crank . New fuel device at end of common rail . Stalls intermittently , under all conditions , hot , cold , under load , idling . Restarts immediately and drives on till next 'hiccup' maybe 10 minutes . Fuel system is tight , no suction air leaks , as monitored with clear bosch filter after jeep spin on housing . I am very frustrated . - Fred ps- 2 cams and hyd. followers replaced at 200 k miles . she has been a reliable car till 2 months ago . thanks for any input .

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:30 pm

mbdieselman wrote:

2005 2.8 CRD > 238,00 miles . Initially engine starts immediately , smooth , no vibration , no smoke , good power curve . timing on the mark , new pump ( $ ) , new injectors ( not rebuilt ) ( $ ) new rpm sensor (2) cam and crank . New fuel device at end of common rail . Stalls intermittently , under all conditions , hot , cold , under load , idling . Restarts immediately and drives on till next 'hiccup' maybe 10 minutes . Fuel system is tight , no suction air leaks , as monitored with clear bosch filter after jeep spin on housing . I am very frustrated . - Fred ps- 2 cams and hyd. followers replaced at 200 k miles . she has been a reliable car till 2 months ago . thanks for any input .

Have you replaced the crankshaft sensor? :roll:

flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:05 pm

Any codes?
If no codes, might be the crank sensor.

Also, while idling, wiggle the harness connector at the fuel rail pressure sensor.
Do the same at the connector to the fuel quantity solenoid on the CP3 pump.
If wiggling the connector causes a stumble, sputter, or stall, you will need to splice in a new connector.

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK · **Joined:** Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:29 pm **Posts:** 1167

mbdieselman wrote:

2005 2.8 CRD > 238,00 miles . Initially engine starts immediately , smooth , no vibration , no smoke , good power curve . timing on the mark , new pump ( $ ) , new injectors ( not rebuilt ) ( $ ) new rpm sensor (2) cam and crank . New fuel device at end of common rail . Stalls intermittently , under all conditions , hot , cold , under load , idling . Restarts immediately and drives on till next 'hiccup' maybe 10 minutes . Fuel system is tight , no suction air leaks , as monitored with clear bosch filter after jeep spin on housing . I am very frustrated . - Fred ps- 2 cams and hyd. followers replaced at 200 k miles . she has been a reliable car till 2 months ago . thanks for any input .

As the fellows were saying, it might be a crankshaft sensor.

But it really sounds like a fuel system problem to me. Have you considered installing a fuel lift pump in the tank? Positive pressure leaks are way easier to detect, and you are guaranteed fuel delivery to your common rail pump.

mbdieselman · **Joined:** Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:28 pm **Posts:** 10

thanks , we forget the simple things , ck'ing wiring at sensors .

mbdieselman · **Joined:** Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:28 pm **Posts:** 10

symptom change ; now we are stalling in 1 minute driving , happens during acceleration . No ck. eng light , one pending code- p0093 , fuel system leak, large . oh boy . I thought this fuel sys. was tight . Following suggestion now of T D F and installing 5# pusher pump at tank , see how this CP3 baby feeds when under pressure . thanks all -Fred

rancherman · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:17 pm

I'm not sure on this, because I haven't had a running CRD long enough to find out;
Is our tanks vented through the cap, or is there a vent provision on the module? Next time you stall out, loosen the fuel cap and see if you are fighting a plugged vent. If so, there should be a considerable 'whoosh' when loosened.

rankom · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:52 pm

this was covered before many many times, on us model kj , CRD it is very important to install intank pump and also secandary 2 mic filter , that can save you lot of headache down the road

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:17 pm

Bad CKP. Change it already.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:36 am

mbdieselman wrote:

symptom change ; now we are stalling in 1 minute driving , happens during acceleration . No ck. eng light , one pending code- p0093 , fuel system leak, large . oh boy . I thought this fuel sys. was tight . Following suggestion now of T D F and installing 5# pusher pump at tank , see how this CP3 baby feeds when under pressure . thanks all -Fred

Sounds like either a clogged fuel filter, bad filter filter heater head, or other air leak.

Lift pump in tank is a good idea, but if your fuel filter heater has gotten hot and melted you shoudl replace it. Pull the heater plug and look for signs of scorching.

How long since fuel filter was replaced?

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK · **Joined:** Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:29 pm **Posts:** 1167

GordnadoCRD wrote:

Bad CKP. Change it already.

Umm, pardon my lack of knowledge of acronyms... what is "CKP"?

mbdieselman · **Joined:** Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:28 pm **Posts:** 10

Crankshaft pos. sensor is new , but how do I know it is operating properly ? access to canon plug on this device is tight , wiring/pins look good . guess i need to ck. signal between crank sensor and ecu . Symptoms remain after install of 5 psi supply pump at tank, now fuel supply is free of air intrusion ? engine starts immediately , idles for a long time , will stall in 1 minute at 2500 rpm , restarts immediately , Liberty sitting on lift ( vehicle's new home ) wish I had a break-out box . In the 70's we had ' affordable ' breakout boxes for all the bosch inj. systems . - Frustrated Fred

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK · **Joined:** Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:29 pm **Posts:** 1167

mbdieselman wrote:

Crankshaft pos. sensor is new , but how do I know it is operating properly ? access to canon plug on this device is tight , wiring/pins look good . guess i need to ck. signal between crank sensor and ecu . Symptoms remain after install of 5 psi supply pump at tank, now fuel supply is free of air intrusion ? engine starts immediately , idles for a long time , will stall in 1 minute at 2500 rpm , restarts immediately , Liberty sitting on lift ( vehicle's new home ) wish I had a break-out box . In the 70's we had ' affordable ' breakout boxes for all the bosch inj. systems . - Frustrated Fred

Sounds like a fuel starvation issue to me... a lift pump should help.

Parkinoff · **Posted:** Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:30 am

Sir Sam wrote:

mbdieselman wrote:

symptom change ; now we are stalling in 1 minute driving , happens during acceleration . No ck. eng light , one pending code- p0093 , fuel system leak, large . oh boy . I thought this fuel sys. was tight . Following suggestion now of T D F and installing 5# pusher pump at tank , see how this CP3 baby feeds when under pressure . thanks all -Fred

Sounds like either a clogged fuel filter, bad filter filter heater head, or other air leak.

Lift pump in tank is a good idea, but if your fuel filter heater has gotten hot and melted you shoudl replace it. Pull the heater plug and look for signs of scorching.

How long since fuel filter was replaced?

Agreed. My 3.0 CRDi shut down similarly to OP's symptoms after filling up with bio diesel. Checking the obd whilst driving I could see the absolute fuel pressure drop to a point where the engine cuts out. It would start again immediately to repeat the cycle. Error code was "large fuel leak". Replaced the filter and all was well again.

Billybob · **Posted:** Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:48 am

You get Bio Diesel in Cape Town?

Not that I would ever use it as I have seen too many posts on the various CRD sites around the world of troubles it causes. I mainly use Sasol as it has the lowest sulphur content at 10 ppm. :wink:

mbdieselman · **Joined:** Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:28 pm **Posts:** 10

Crankshaft pos. sensor is new , but how do I know it is operating properly ? access to canon plug on this device is tight , wiring/pins look good . guess i need to ck. signal between crank sensor and ecu . Symptoms remain after install of 5 psi supply pump at tank, now fuel supply is free of air intrusion ? engine starts immediately , idles for a long time , will stall in 1 minute at 2500 rpm , restarts immediately , Liberty sitting on lift ( vehicle's new home ) wish I had a break-out box . In the 70's we had ' affordable ' breakout boxes for all the bosch inj. systems . - Frustrated Fred. UPDATE ; 8 Sept. 2019 , it has been over a year since I evaluated anything on this CRD . I parked her in a corner and went on with my life , traveling , new granddaughter babysitting , taking her fishing ( start them early I say ) . 2005 Liberty CRD went into a 'no start' mode 6 mos. ago . Now she is starting again after e-bay purchase of identical part # Bosch 0 281 011 476 ECU accompanied by ignition key and electronic collar . Engine starts immediately , idles forever but dies when rpm held at 2500 for 30 sec. Back to square one now in sept. 2019 ; ELM 327 OBD reader shows high fuel press. approx. 23,000 # right to point of engine shut-off . Lift pump installed in tank , entire sys. to high press pump is under positive 5 psi supply pressure . What sensor has capability of shutting down engine so abruptly ? Good thing I have my Grandchildren outings to help me forget this elec. morass . Anyone feel like making a suggestion ? Thankyou , Fred

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:25 pm

If the ECM sees high fuel pressure, it would immediately trigger FCS (back of CP3) to shut fuel quantity, and open the FPS (back of fuel rail) to dump fuel pressure.

If the Fuel Pressure Sensor (3 wires, middle of fuel rail) is reporting proper fuel pressure to the ECM, both of these instant conditions would immediately correct themselves before the engine died.

Even with high viscosity fuel oil (biodiesel) this closed system (ECM, FPSensor,FPSsolenoid, FQSolenoid) should respond fast enough to prevent engine dying, but it's about the only thing I can think of that could kill it that fast.

Somewhere, something in this system is giving bad information, either at a sensor level or a command-response solenoid level.

Have you checked the fuel RETURN line to the tank for unrestricted flow? If this circuit were somehow plugged/crimped/restricted it could really confuse things at the CP3 level.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:49 am

Swap the ASD relay with another one (fan relay is a popular option) and see if the problem resolves. The ASD is the "Automatic shut down" and if it is not powered, the engine quits.

I suspect you have something electronic going on. If you want professional assistance, I'm the traveling CRD tech. This is the ONLY vehicle I work on, and I've seen just over 100 of them now.

TKB4 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:01 am

certainly sounds electronic though the P0093 code could be related to the >mercedes sensor on side of the air filter housing or the wiring to it not the mass air flow sensor. Of course it could be a bad new Cam or crank position sensor . You have replaced them both and installed an in tank which even if not the cause was still a good move not so sure about pump and injectors etc. Sir sam has a you tube video that alludes to checking crank sensor remotely at ecm pins for at least open circuit and resistance in expected range but can't really do it in real time.

Flash gave me some instructions to help diagnose fuel problems will see if I can find it and link post. Here is one post
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=90291

Here is a link to part 3 I would look at his others and I think there is one called something like diagnosing no starts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7raWcur21yg

mbdieselman · **Joined:** Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:28 pm **Posts:** 10

Thank you All for ideas , I have my diagnose test assignment now , off to figuring this thing out . Ck'ing Geordi's free fuel return option , and swapping relays and TK4B's sensor readings . Dreaming of a Mech. injected M B 240D w/ manual transmission . Regards , Fred

stalling CRD

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