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| 2005 liberty crd UPDATE 9/2/18 Compression results http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=89065 |
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| Author: | 98tdi [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | 2005 liberty crd UPDATE 9/2/18 Compression results |
Hello all I purchased a 2005 liberty crd with 97,000 miles Vehicle died on road is what previous owner stated He had done a timing belt kit thinking it had jumped timing, but while in there he found out it was fine. He aslo replaced old style filter head with updated version I bought it and immediately replaced both crank and cam sensors I replaced the fuel rail solenoid I sent out injectors to be tested for high return they passed and are in great shape Still won’t fire Will crank all day No check engine lights Will not build fuel pressure from high pressure pump It seems to me all the fuel is returning out the back side of the high pressure pump But it won’t build any high pressure fuel in rail What else can it be?? Bad cp3? |
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| Author: | WWDiesel [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2005 liberty crd project won’t build fuel pressure |
Could be one of these two items: Names used, Fuel Control Actuator, Fuel Pressure Regulator, Fuel Quality Solenoid Mopar PN 5159962AA Bosch PN 0928400822 located on back of CP3 Cascade/Overflow Valve PN F00N200798 located on side of CP3 Hopefully Gordon will chime in, he is the expert on fuel rail problems!  
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| Author: | 98tdi [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2005 liberty crd project won’t build fuel pressure |
Not sure if this helps eliminate potential problems, but I did unplug the fca on back of cp3, and it still didn’t build any pressure I did pull the return line off the cp3 and that is when I saw what I thought was an excessive amount of fuel pouring out of the line |
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| Author: | papaindigo [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2005 liberty crd project won’t build fuel pressure |
The electric system plug to #4 injector is identical to that on one of the fuel rail sensors. If on reassembly you swapped the plugs then no rail pressure and no fire when cranking. |
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| Author: | 98tdi [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2005 liberty crd project won’t build fuel pressure |
papaindigo wrote: The electric system plug to #4 injector is identical to that on one of the fuel rail sensors. If on reassembly you swapped the plugs then no rail pressure and no fire when cranking. I have already checked this and verified wire colors to injector This is hooked up correct |
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| Author: | GordnadoCRD [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2005 liberty crd project won’t build fuel pressure |
98tdi wrote: Not sure if this helps eliminate potential problems, but I did unplug the fca on back of cp3, and it still didn’t build any pressure I did pull the return line off the cp3 and that is when I saw what I thought was an excessive amount of fuel pouring out of the line That is a good test, however you need to be sure to block off the rubber line between the rail nub and the plastic return fuel manifold. If not firmly blocked off, it will leak a LOT from the little blue line. You are correct in testing this though, as if ANY fuel is leaking from the back of the rail when cranking, you have a problem in that area. Either open/short/ground problem with the solenoid, perhaps bent electrical pins, open/short/ground wiring circuit at either connector or wires between solenoid and ECM. In short, if you DO have fuel leaking from the Fuel Pressure Solenoid when tested properly, then you most likely DO NOT have a problem with the CP3. If you DO NOT have fuel leaking while cranking, and still have no pressure, then the CP3 is a possibility, but very low probability, especially with a die-no-start situation. That's more of an electrical type of failure. |
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| Author: | rancherman [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2005 liberty crd project won’t build fuel pressure |
WWDiesel wrote: Could be one of these two items: Names used, Fuel Control Actuator, Fuel Pressure Regulator, Fuel Quality Solenoid Mopar PN 5159962AA Bosch PN 0928400822 located on back of CP3 Cascade/Overflow Valve PN F00N200798 located on side of CP3 Hopefully Gordon will chime in, he is the expert on fuel rail problems! Hey, FMI, is the regulator or actuator 'normally closed' or normally open when no signal is present? I'm assuming that 'closed' would STOP fuel from returning freely down the return to tank pipe..... and causes pressure to rise in the rail. correct? Still wrapping my head around the cascade/overflow... but that is for another day! |
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| Author: | 98tdi [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2005 liberty crd project won’t build fuel pressure |
no Fuel comes out of the fuel solenoid while cranking. The only fuel that is present comes from the cp3 return line that heads back to the tank. I am going to remove the cp3 and have it bench tested this week. I hope to find that it is faulty or has a bad fca/cascade overflow valve Not sure what I will find but I need to get to the bottom of this!! GordnadoCRD wrote: 98tdi wrote: Not sure if this helps eliminate potential problems, but I did unplug the fca on back of cp3, and it still didn’t build any pressure I did pull the return line off the cp3 and that is when I saw what I thought was an excessive amount of fuel pouring out of the line That is a good test, however you need to be sure to block off the rubber line between the rail nub and the plastic return fuel manifold. If not firmly blocked off, it will leak a LOT from the little blue line. You are correct in testing this though, as if ANY fuel is leaking from the back of the rail when cranking, you have a problem in that area. Either open/short/ground problem with the solenoid, perhaps bent electrical pins, open/short/ground wiring circuit at either connector or wires between solenoid and ECM. In short, if you DO have fuel leaking from the Fuel Pressure Solenoid when tested properly, then you most likely DO NOT have a problem with the CP3. If you DO NOT have fuel leaking while cranking, and still have no pressure, then the CP3 is a possibility, but very low probability, especially with a die-no-start situation. That's more of an electrical type of failure. |
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| Author: | WWDiesel [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2005 liberty crd project won’t build fuel pressure |
98tdi wrote: I hope to find that it is faulty or has a bad fca/cascade overflow valve I believe the cascade overflow valve can be replaced without removing the pump? 
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| Author: | flash7210 [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2005 liberty crd project won’t build fuel pressure |
WWDiesel wrote: 98tdi wrote: I hope to find that it is faulty or has a bad fca/cascade overflow valve I believe the cascade overflow valve can be replaced without removing the pump? It might be possible but its really hard to get at. Its partially covered by the big aluminum bracket. |
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| Author: | Mountainman [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2005 liberty crd project won’t build fuel pressure |
Check to see if you have two lightly toasted pins on the ecu. I've seen this problem on 2 crd's now. Scraping the corrosion on the pins, a tiny bend (like half a millimeter) and some dielectric grease permanently fixed them. Without the slight bend there continued to be arcing. Pins too loose... |
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| Author: | 98tdi [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2005 liberty crd project won’t build fuel pressure |
Mountainman wrote: Check to see if you have two lightly toasted pins on the ecu. I've seen this problem on 2 crd's now. Scraping the corrosion on the pins, a tiny bend (like half a millimeter) and some dielectric grease permanently fixed them. Without the slight bend there continued to be arcing. Pins too loose... Pins for what though? I have no check engine light on..... |
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| Author: | Mountainman [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2005 liberty crd project won’t build fuel pressure |
98tdi wrote: Mountainman wrote: Check to see if you have two lightly toasted pins on the ecu. I've seen this problem on 2 crd's now. Scraping the corrosion on the pins, a tiny bend (like half a millimeter) and some dielectric grease permanently fixed them. Without the slight bend there continued to be arcing. Pins too loose... Pins for what though? I have no check engine light on..... Fuel rail solenoid. If you examine the pins closely with a good light, you won't even need to look them up. I can't remember the pin #'s, but they'll be crispy if that's the problem. Yeah, no code often |
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| Author: | GordnadoCRD [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2005 liberty crd project won’t build fuel pressure |
Mountainman wrote: 98tdi wrote: Mountainman wrote: Check to see if you have two lightly toasted pins on the ecu. I've seen this problem on 2 crd's now. Scraping the corrosion on the pins, a tiny bend (like half a millimeter) and some dielectric grease permanently fixed them. Without the slight bend there continued to be arcing. Pins too loose... Pins for what though? I have no check engine light on..... Fuel rail solenoid. If you examine the pins closely with a good light, you won't even need to look them up. I can't remember the pin #'s, but they'll be crispy if that's the problem. Yeah, no code often I have found this myself. I do most all the pin checks I can from the ECM plug using small sewing needles, and when everything was coming up aces, the only thing left was the ECM pins / sockets connections. I didn't have any replacement wire ends for those, so used the same approach Mountainman mentioned. Still working perfectly. |
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| Author: | 98tdi [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2005 liberty crd project won’t build fuel pressure |
[/quote] Fuel rail solenoid. If you examine the pins closely with a good light, you won't even need to look them up. I can't remember the pin #'s, but they'll be crispy if that's the problem. Yeah, no code often[/quote] I will check that out never thought of that Still if the pins were for some reason not making contact, and I had no fuel coming out of pressure side of cp3 I don’t think the solenoid wiring would cause that Since I bypassed the electrical side of the equation by unplugging the fca it wild default into max rail pressure (which it did not) My thoughts are the cp3 has failed or has issue with either the fca or cascade overflow valve |
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| Author: | GordnadoCRD [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2005 liberty crd project won’t build fuel pressure |
98tdi wrote: Fuel rail solenoid. If you examine the pins closely with a good light, you won't even need to look them up. I can't remember the pin #'s, but they'll be crispy if that's the problem. Yeah, no code often[/quote] I will check that out never thought of that Still if the pins were for some reason not making contact, and I had no fuel coming out of pressure side of cp3 (An unplugged connector at the FQS back side of the CP3(?) or any lost signal will result of MAX fuel passing through the CP3) I don’t think the solenoid wiring would cause that Since I bypassed the electrical side of the equation by unplugging the fca (FQS?) it wild (would?) default into max rail pressure (which it did not) If you are trying to describe the condition indicated by my corrections, then this isn't technically correct. It would default into max fuel quantity. Pressure depends on other things downstream. My thoughts are the cp3 has failed or has issue with either the fca or cascade overflow valve[/quote] Ok I'm trying to interpret your statements here, but you're using a foreign term (FCA which means Fiat Chrysler Automobiles), so I will do my best. "Still if the pins were for some reason not making contact, and I had no fuel coming out of pressure side of cp3 I don’t think the solenoid wiring would cause that" The HighPressure side of CP3 is easily tested for volume by disconnecting any of the HP fuel line joints. You don't specify to which solenoid wiring you are referring, but the only possible relevant one would be FQS (fuel quantity solenoid) attached to the CP3. This solenoid's natural state is "full open" (maximum fuel output). If there is no fuel output from the CP3, then either this valve is stuck closed, or the low pressure transfer pump inside the CP3 has failed in some way. If the ECM is giving a signal telling the FQS to shut fuel electronically, the only reason that would happen is the Fuel Pressure Sensor is giving the ECM incorrect information. If there is NO FUEL output from the CP3 when cranking (except for return) The only way it could escape is via COV (Cascade Overflow Valve). This is a mechanical device, not electronically controlled in any way. And I'm not sure if it's even capable of bypassing full volume, especially in stage 1 or 2. It's primary function is to make sure the first place fuel goes it to the lubrication passages (0-44 psi). Secondary function is to bleed off air from supply fuel (45-77psi) Above 77psi goes to the HP pumping plungers and out to the rail. So for any fuel to bleed back through the return, the pump has to be working somewhat. |
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| Author: | 98tdi [ Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2005 liberty crd project won’t build fuel pressure |
Ok a little update Today I re installed my injectors (all were tested and were in great shape) I also unplugged my electrical connectors at the ecu to look for burned or colored pins I didn’t find any odd looking pins yet I primed the pump at the filter head and hit the key. After a while it started to kick a little like it wanted to start It never started without a taste of ether It will start and run only with throttle to the floor and it’s only running on cylinder 1 and 3 2 and 4 have no effect in unhooking the injector plug when it was running It sounds like a rod knock but I feel it’s a fuel related knock I will post a video of it here soon Now I am thinking it has a bent rocker assembly on cylinder 2 and 4 Or a camshaft issue with those two cylinders For those that are going to say it’s a rod knock I have this to say , I ran the engine at full throttle 1500 rpm-2000 rpm for about 15 mins If it was a rod knock I would think it would have made a appearance by now I was calling the fca the fuel control actuator (the plug on the cp3) Let me know what you think! |
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| Author: | 98tdi [ Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2005 liberty crd project won’t build fuel pressure |
https://youtu.be/TJjGgorv4CM |
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| Author: | rankom [ Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2005 liberty crd project won’t build fuel pressure |
dont run it on ether any more , we need report from your fuel injection shop, a print out of injector tests. and compression test results |
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| Author: | 98tdi [ Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2005 liberty crd project won’t build fuel pressure |
rankom wrote: dont run it on ether any more , we need report from your fuel injection shop, a print out of injector tests. and compression test results I only gave it enough to start, I didn’t run it the entire video on ether. I will get the reports uploaded tomorrow I don’t have a copy of the compression test as this was done by the PO. I don’t know anyone who has a compression tester for these motors without going to a dealer. I will see if I can buy a adapter for my current compression kit (for newer Vw cars) |
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