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 Post subject: Re: New project(s):
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:18 pm 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
Curiosity piqued!

I wonder, amongst all the dropped valves we've had, how many could have started this way?

Obviously, the ones that lose the valve head, and the locks and retainers are still in place, are not candidates, but there are others where the valve is "swallowed whole", that could have happened due to lock loss.


Also wondering if excess RPM might have had anything to do with the retainer locks jumping ship.

Odd though. I've floated valves on a few engines, and never had a retainer or lock come loose.

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'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

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Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
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IDParts
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cams
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ARP studs
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YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


Last edited by GordnadoCRD on Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New project(s):
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:25 pm 
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You should buy a lottery ticket! Well, hopefully the other end is intact. I've seen them bend the stem and jam it in that position.
I opened one that the valve was completely free, and it hurt nothing! Only thing I could figure was that it dropped in after the engine was shut down. Didn't even bend the valve. :CAMPING:

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05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,WW Ironrock trilink&LCA's, OX rear,ARB front, 4.10's, ARB bumper, Suncoast,OME 3.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&265/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new valves,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, tensioner relocated
Mech fan, VH & AC delete


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 Post subject: Re: New project(s):
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:32 pm 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
Curiosity piqued!

I wonder, amongst all the dropped valves we've had, how many could have started this way?

Obviously, the ones that lose the valve head, and the locks and retainers are still in place, are not candidates, but there are others where the valve is "swallowed whole", that could have happened due to lock loss.


Also wondering if excess RPM might have had anything to do with the retainer locks jumping ship.

Odd though. I've floated valves on a few engines, and never had a retainer or lock come loose.


I've seen a few where I was sure that a collapsed rocker got bound at the top of the valve spring and released the pressure on the keeper, and gulp!

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05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,WW Ironrock trilink&LCA's, OX rear,ARB front, 4.10's, ARB bumper, Suncoast,OME 3.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&265/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new valves,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, tensioner relocated
Mech fan, VH & AC delete


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 Post subject: Re: New project(s):
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:24 pm 
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To add; I have seen a lot of destroyed engines over some 40+ years and I don't ever remember seeing one that half a keeper was missing. :shock:
Sam did not say he found the other half did he?
Wonder if someone actually assembled the head in this manner?
In the machine shop, we always would strike the valve head with a hammer a couple of times to make sure the keepers were fully set and tight.

I have seen 100's of broke valves where the stem broke over the years, but the spring and keepers always remained in intact.
We floated valves all the time in drag race engines and never had valve keepers come out! Usually a rod or piston always gave up first.

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
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No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
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2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
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V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
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98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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 Post subject: Re: New project(s):
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:01 pm 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
Curiosity piqued!

I wonder, amongst all the dropped valves we've had, how many could have started this way?


Yup I really wonder this too, lose one keeper and then its just a matter of time before it drops and BAM. Out of curiosity last night I looked at the head I have with a dropped valve, turns out only one keeper was in it......hard to say when it was lost though.

Mountainman wrote:
You should buy a lottery ticket! Well, hopefully the other end is intact. I've seen them bend the stem and jam it in that position.
I opened one that the valve was completely free, and it hurt nothing! Only thing I could figure was that it dropped in after the engine was shut down. Didn't even bend the valve. :CAMPING:


I did a leak down test which shows 99psi out of 100psi, so I think the valve to seat is good as well as rings. I then "popped" each valve with a smaller rubber hammer to verify they opened and vented good. I'd say at this point I'm confident its not bent and is useable on the seat side, I just need to check the keeper rings in the end of the valve, if they rings were not damaged and will hold a keeper correct I think I'm good to go.


WWDiesel wrote:
To add; I have seen a lot of destroyed engines over some 40+ years and I don't ever remember seeing one that half a keeper was missing. :shock:
Sam did not say he found the other half did he?
Wonder if someone actually assembled the head in this manner?
In the machine shop, we always would strike the valve head with a hammer a couple of times to make sure the keepers were fully set and tight.

I have seen 100's of broke valves where the stem broke over the years, but the spring and keepers always remained in intact.
We floated valves all the time in drag race engines and never had valve keepers come out! Usually a rod or piston always gave up first.


I suppose that possible, I can tell the wiring harness was removed at some point over the engine, the fuel return lines at the top of the injectors have a JB welded nipple where it connects to that fuel return junction, and the injectors were super clean looking of gunk.

That said I don't see any evidence the intake had been off before, and I do see evidence the EGR was worked on or replaced, maybe someone pulled all that crap just to work on EGR?

I also cannot image it was installed bad, and lasted long enough for these rockers to fail so badly, this is 100k+ miles of rocker bearing wear, its hard to imagine the keeper held on that long.

I think its more likely just a weird way the rocker failure let a keeper pop out.

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 Post subject: Re: New project(s):
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:46 pm 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
Is the missing retainer lock somewhere in the head? Is there a passage large enough for it to fall down into the pan?

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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 Post subject: Re: New project(s):
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:52 pm 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
Is the missing retainer lock somewhere in the head? Is there a passage large enough for it to fall down into the pan?

Yea, where is that missing keeper, inquiring minds want to know. :roll:

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Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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 Post subject: Re: New project(s):
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:14 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
GordnadoCRD wrote:
Is the missing retainer lock somewhere in the head? Is there a passage large enough for it to fall down into the pan?

Yea, where is that missing keeper, inquiring minds want to know. :roll:


No where I can find it. likely made its way down an oil return galley and is sitting in the pan, I will try and do a diesel flush to rinse anything out of the oil pan.

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 Post subject: Re: New project(s):
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:19 pm 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
The inside bottom of the CRD oil pan is a freakin maze to prevent stuff like that from getting to the oil pickup. If it's down there, it's down for good or until someone drops the pan.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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 Post subject: Re: New project(s):
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:31 pm 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
The inside bottom of the CRD oil pan is a freakin maze to prevent stuff like that from getting to the oil pickup. If it's down there, it's down for good or until someone drops the pan.

Might try fishing it out with a small magnet stick? :idea:

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Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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 Post subject: Re: New project(s):
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:38 pm 
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Ok, so the plural of these projects is this one I picked up from this thread:

Image


Its about 10 hours each way, I left work at 3:30 pm on thursday, took friday off, and got back at 9pm friday evening. Got about 25mpg on the way out, about 16-17 on the way back, not bad considering I was towing at 75mph.

Lots of corn, going further north there are sunflowers, soy, potatoes, wheat, grass.......most of my drive was not on interstate, and actually fairly interesting considering where I was driving.

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Pheasant SD:
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Getting a sandwich:
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More sunflowers:
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Home:
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Got parts on saturday at a local junkyard, intercooler was just full of oil, and had some stress leaks:
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This was after draining a quart or so, and rinsing with a gallon of gasoline, I let it sit overnight with the inlet down to drain more, think I finally got the bulk of it out:
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Got it back together enough for now:
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"they circled the problem....lolz am i right?"
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After that I got back into working on the red one, I got a spring compressor setup and got the old keeper out. Turns out half the keeper was missing and the other half split in half, making 1/4s. I replaced it with 2 spare keepers and a spring retainer. The grooves in the valve for the keeper looked perfect, so I don't feel the need to replace the valve.

Image
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It was made out of a random bit of strap steel that had previously been my VW van alternator bracket!

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 Post subject: Re: New project(s):
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:15 pm 
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How long did it take you to tear the intake/camshaft assembly off the head?


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 Post subject: Re: New project(s):
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:30 pm 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
Looks like the Insurance folks used pink lipstick to circle all the body damage.

Hopefully you don't have that oil sludge running out the exhaust once you get it fired up.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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 Post subject: Re: New project(s):
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:22 pm 
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98tdi wrote:
How long did it take you to tear the intake/camshaft assembly off the head?


About 4-5 hours, to remove the intake and replace is about double the labor of a timing belt job the way I do it. I pull the bumper off and then all the radiators, I show my procedure on youtube for the timing belt if you want to see it.

GordnadoCRD wrote:
Looks like the Insurance folks used pink lipstick to circle all the body damage.

Hopefully you don't have that oil sludge running out the exhaust once you get it fired up.


Pink paint pen, cleans off nice with denatured alcohol, but the textured bumper is terrible to clean it off of.

I think I got all the nasty sludge crap cleaned out, took a bunch of rinsing and gas but I got it out.

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 Post subject: Re: New project(s):
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:14 pm 
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Sir Sam wrote:
Ok, so the plural of these projects is this one I picked up from this thread:


You've got an excellent taste for the color of KJs... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: New project(s):
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:32 pm 
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Got Ruby emissions tested and plated, loaded an 811 stage one tune, and reinstalled the stock wheels for the ~3000 or so highway miles it will see between CO to CA to CO.

Got a few pics before I took the big wheels off. Next time it is back in CO I will work on the pinch seams since they eat into the tires, and hopefully get a few other things like the rock rails installed, LED foglights added, steering wheel radio buttons, and roof rack cross bars.

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