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 Post subject: WTF: I install an ARB bumper and M8 and now Im overheating
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:25 am 
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I thought the bumpers were designed for this? My truck has never over heated before. Ive towed 5300lbs and it didnt overheat. Now, after the ARB install every big highway hill I come to the gauge starts to climb. I was one tick off of the red "H" when I hit the top of Snoqualmie Pass here in washington. It has a five mile long approach and ist 3200 ft high.

Any ideas from anybody? Lots of ARB bumpers installed around here.


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 Post subject: Re: WTF: I install an ARB bumper and M8 and now Im overheati
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:48 am 
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Maybe you need a new fan clutch?

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 Post subject: Re: WTF: I install an ARB bumper and M8 and now Im overheati
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:14 pm 
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I also have an ARB and have had issues with overheating. I found the fixed flex fan mod to be the best option. I can still get it to warm up under hard climbs, like I80 out of SLC to Park City, but I have to really be working it and it has to be >90° with the A/C on full. Hitting O/D Off and getting the fan and waterpump spun up will drop it right back to normal temp. If you dont wanna do this then the functioning fan clutch is absolutely vital.

The ARB has some cooling features but you have to remember that the stock bumper hung really low. It created a nice big pressure bubble in front of the jeep and a low pressure bubble underneath which helped force air through the grille and suck it out the bottom. Take a look at the Chevy colorado and Colorado ZR2. The regular colorado diesel is rated for like 7600 lbs towing while the ZR2 diesel is only rated for 5000 lbs and chevy stated it was because of the reduced cooling caused by the high clearance bumper.

The other thing you will notice is that there is a gap at the bottom of the radiator where the air can slip out. I built an aluminum shroud and put it in place here to keep the air going through the radiator instead of down. I also took the lower ARB skid plate and put some 1" sleeve spacers and longer M6 bolts to drop it down farther and grab more air.

See here: http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=87716

Next steps are going to be hood vents as shown in the thread by other members.

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 Post subject: Re: WTF: I install an ARB bumper and M8 and now Im overheati
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:45 pm 
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Thank you. What exactly is the fixed flax fan?

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 Post subject: Re: WTF: I install an ARB bumper and M8 and now Im overheati
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:51 pm 
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CRD Joe wrote:
Thank you. What exactly is the fixed flax fan?


Its a flex fan like this:

Image

Bolted directly to the fan pulley with no clutch so it runs at the pulley speed 100% of the time with no chance of a failed clutch. there is a write up about it here somewhere. the blades are a lot more "scooped" than the stock fan blades as well as deeper. They are longer from the hub to the tip. so overall I believe it moves considerably more air than the stock fan. Not sure how it compares to the 11 blade GM fan option.

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 Post subject: Re: WTF: I install an ARB bumper and M8 and now Im overheati
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:56 pm 
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Anyone who has done this mod have any part numbers? Any quick overview of the process? Id appreciate it.


Tom

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 Post subject: Re: WTF: I install an ARB bumper and M8 and now Im overheati
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:01 am 
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CRD Joe wrote:
Anyone who has done this mod have any part numbers? Any quick overview of the process? Id appreciate it.


Tom



The fixed flex fan is a good option, but so is the GM heavy-duty fan clutch and 11 blade fan ... apparently they are an exact fit and bolt right on. WWDiesel knows all about them.

Another option is to remove the mechanical fan completely and go with a heavy duty electric fan from a Crown Victoria police interceptor. The cooling systems on cop cars are very heavy duty. The electric fan on these is said to pull about 5000 CFM, which is a virtual match for the O.E. mechanical fan on the CRD.

The advantage of going totally electric is that there is no parasitic drag on the engine, and with a fan controller kit you can set the temperature the fan is to come on, and the temperature when the fan is shut off. The fan simply does not run when it is not needed, and that is a significant help during warm-ups in frigid cold temperatures.


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 Post subject: Re: WTF: I install an ARB bumper and M8 and now Im overheati
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:06 am 
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Anybody thats done this flex fan have part numbers of the fan youve used? I dont really know where to start.

Thanks.

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2005 KJ CRD Sport-Suncoast, Transco, GDE Hot-GDE Trans, EGR Delete, Skid Row skids, V6 airbox, 2.5" Turbo back, After market S-Stat
1987 Suzuki LWB Samurai -diesel powered, custom 4 link coil suspension 38.5 SX Swampers


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 Post subject: Re: WTF: I install an ARB bumper and M8 and now Im overheati
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:50 am 
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https://www.google.com/search?q=flex+fa ... tjeeps.com

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 Post subject: Re: WTF: I install an ARB bumper and M8 and now Im overheati
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:17 am 
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Original LOST post with pics viewtopic.php?f=5&t=51618&hilit=fixed

I ran it for a while. Cools great might over cool slightly when you first come into town from a highway run in summer with AC on and stop at a traffic light; at least the temp gauge needle seems to drop a touch like 1/2 needle width. Fan noise is barely noticeable at hwy speed but there is a noticeable drone in town particularly at 35-45mph. Eventually replaced it with new Hayden fan clutch and plastic/nylon KJ gasser fan.

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 Post subject: Re: WTF: I install an ARB bumper and M8 and now Im overheati
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:24 am 
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flash7210 wrote:
Maybe you need a new fan clutch?


This, ^^^ along with verifying the condition of the radiator/IC/Condenser for bugs, bent fins, dirt.
My guess is if you can hear it roaring and it's still climbing temp wise, the clutch is probably 'ok'..
I'd check the cleanliness first Just looking down between the components isn't enough. Air HAS to be able to flow through. Corner to corner, 100% of the core needs to be clean. Not just the circle of the fan.

Apparently, these bumpers change the high pressure wave in front of the vehicle, and the airflow around/through the grille is 'different'. My guess is, a lot of this HP air is spilled under the vehicle with the new bumper... You're not alone; I've put aftermarket bumpers on all my Dodge cummins, which removes that air dam below the bumper. When my radiators start to block from bugs, dirt, grass seeds, oil... it heats far earlier than when all the plastic was still 'out front'..
I can only imagine what the skid plates are doing to directing air back into the engine compartment.. LOL There may be higher pressure on the BACKSIDE of the radiator than the front! Like a previous poster noted, some guys have 'ventilated' their hoods to help..

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 Post subject: Re: WTF: I install an ARB bumper and M8 and now Im overheati
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:12 pm 
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For information on installing the 11 blade HD V8 GM fan and clutch setup on the Jeep CRD see this:> viewtopic.php?f=5&t=82941

Just a thought, has anyone tried using any of the foam coil cleaners on the outside of the coils of the AC condenser / transmission cooler, CAC, and radiator?
HVAC tech's use them all the time on house units to clean coils to improve their thermal efficiency (heat transfer).
Seems like it would be a good idea?

I am going to get a couple of cans today and try to see if it will help lower my transmission temps as they got up to over 210 yesterday in town stop and go driving.
Will report the results later if it helps any.

Like this one:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: WTF: I install an ARB bumper and M8 and now Im overheati
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:33 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
For information on installing the 11 blade HD V8 GM fan and clutch setup on the Jeep CRD see this:> viewtopic.php?f=5&t=82941

Just a thought, has anyone tried using any of the foam coil cleaners on the outside of the coils of the AC condenser / transmission cooler, CAC, and radiator?
HVAC tech's use them all the time on house units to clean coils to improve their thermal efficiency (heat transfer).
Seems like it would be a good idea?

I am going to get a couple of cans today and try to see if it will help lower my transmission temps as they got up to over 210 yesterday in town stop and go driving.
Will report the results later if it helps any.

Like this one:

Image


I'd say anything that works as a cleaner 'can't hurt'!! Just make sure it's rinsed clean... residuals act just like a magnet to start the whole blockage issue even faster.

I know of several that about 1x a month, will keep the engine running, and shoot water through the radiator The fan pulls it through, and they do this until the water runs clear. Might be ok for the guy who does it BEFORE too much is accumulated!
.......... this always 'bugged' me... driving debris even deeper into the core.................. I been a reverse direction cleaner type...... But I deal with some very non typical type crap in my radiators! Needle grass, and Brome grass seeds are the worst.
this is a single needle grass seed; about 4-5 inches long.Image
I got almost a 5 gallon bucket of those nasty, sharp, varmints out of my Dodge this spring!

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 Post subject: Re: WTF: I install an ARB bumper and M8 and now Im overheati
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:55 pm 
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My coils look clean visually, but that transmission cooler certainly is not performing as I think it should. :shock:
over 210 in town driving is too hot for me. My dodge cummins never gets that hot ever!

Off to Lowes to get some of that cleaner and try... :JEEPIN:

I have a 10 row stacked plate cooler ordered from Summit Racing that should be here tomorrow and I will be installing it in the opening directly under the bumper since I have little room left above the bumper. :roll:

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 Post subject: WTF: I install an ARB bumper and M8 and now Im overheating
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:17 pm 
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CRD Joe wrote:
Anybody thats done this flex fan have part numbers of the fan youve used? I dont really know where to start.

Thanks.


The link posted has the original thread on it. If you look at the last post in the thread it is how I did it with part numbers and everything.

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK wrote:
CRD Joe wrote:
Anyone who has done this mod have any part numbers? Any quick overview of the process? Id appreciate it.


Tom



The fixed flex fan is a good option, but so is the GM heavy-duty fan clutch and 11 blade fan ... apparently they are an exact fit and bolt right on. WWDiesel knows all about them.

Another option is to remove the mechanical fan completely and go with a heavy duty electric fan from a Crown Victoria police interceptor. The cooling systems on cop cars are very heavy duty. The electric fan on these is said to pull about 5000 CFM, which is a virtual match for the O.E. mechanical fan on the CRD.

The advantage of going totally electric is that there is no parasitic drag on the engine, and with a fan controller kit you can set the temperature the fan is to come on, and the temperature when the fan is shut off. The fan simply does not run when it is not needed, and that is a significant help during warm-ups in frigid cold temperatures.


The legendary Taurus/Mark 8/etc fan does not pull 5000 CFM. There was a company who tested on the corvette forum who showed it was more like 2750 CFM and was outperformed by dual spal 11" fans, especially at high static pressures.

Image

I dont believe that it would do the job in extreme situations. Yes there are guys using electric fans with some success but you have to account for all the factors(like do they have an A/C condenser(the most restrictive exchanger in the cooling stack) or are the tuned, or do they have an ARB?)

I run an electric in the winter but in the summer, performance has been very poor.

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 Post subject: Re: WTF: I install an ARB bumper and M8 and now Im overheati
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:23 pm 
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Something else to toss in the mix that I want to investigate, the gasser HD cooling included a 2 speed fan, same as our motor, behind the radiator as part of the mechanical fan shroud. comparing the two fan shrouds it appears that the extra sucker electric fan from a gasser could be used in addition to the stock pusher and mechanical fan.

I'm not 100% sure on fitment and clearance with our mechanical fan, but I'll be looking into it shortly when I'm putting back together my project CRDs.

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 Post subject: Re: WTF: I install an ARB bumper and M8 and now Im overheati
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:35 pm 
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Just adding in here. I have a stock cooling stack, stock bumper and in Western WA it's been in the 90s. I've driven the beast pretty dang hard during 95F with full A/C and I have never seen my temp gauge above middle. AAMOF since I installed the HDS housing and a 190F thermostat (I think, I chose the lower one maybe 183F) my jeep always runs right in the middle and heats right up on cold 30F mornings. 2 cents

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 Post subject: Re: WTF: I install an ARB bumper and M8 and now Im overheati
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:18 pm 
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vwroad87 wrote:
Just adding in here. I have a stock cooling stack, stock bumper and in Western WA it's been in the 90s. I've driven the beast pretty dang hard during 95F with full A/C and I have never seen my temp gauge above middle. AAMOF since I installed the HDS housing and a 190F thermostat (I think, I chose the lower one maybe 183F) my jeep always runs right in the middle and heats right up on cold 30F mornings. 2 cents


I recently went to the 180F Tstat in my HDS. The 203F Tstat is too close to 224F where the ecu starts to cut fuel. It was not hard for me to get there.

I may go back to the 203F in the winter.

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Last edited by mass-hole on Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WTF: I install an ARB bumper and M8 and now Im overheati
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:52 pm 
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Thank you all so much for the advice and information. Of all the choices, which one would you all recommend that I go ahead and implement?

I have the after market aluminum housing for my thermometer. Im pretty sure I bought it from a Canadian guy. Do any of you know what exact model thermostat I need to buy for that housing? I cant remember what temp it came with.


Tom

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 Post subject: Re: WTF: I install an ARB bumper and M8 and now Im overheati
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:26 pm 
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CRD Joe wrote:
Thank you all so much for the advice and information. Of all the choices, which one would you all recommend that I go ahead and implement?

I have the after market aluminum housing for my thermometer. Im pretty sure I bought it from a Canadian guy. Do any of you know what exact model thermostat I need to buy for that housing? I cant remember what temp it came with.


Tom


A Stant Tstat for the 5.7L hemi. It would have come with the 203F/95C version but there is a 180F(# 48798) and 190F(# 48799)version as well. GDE recommends a 190F Tstat, I just asked them the other day. I put in a 180F because it gives me a little extra time before it gets over 224/107C where fueling starts to reduce.

I would make sure ur fan is working first and foremost. If not, then decide if you want the GM fan with clutch or flex fan with no clutch.

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Last edited by mass-hole on Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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