2005 Cherokee KJ CRD 2.8 Hard Start In Morning problem found

Ludi Neethling · **Joined:** Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:04 am **Posts:** 87

I'm back from a 1,900 ml trip through South Africa's Western Cape Province to see the wild flowers that bloom this time of the year but due to cloud cover the flowers were not open. Beautiful country made up for this, especially between Hondeklip Baai and Kamieskroon.

The Jeep averaged 23.5 MPG (10l/100km) with a best of 27 MPG (8.7l/100km) on the first tank. I added 8oz Stanadyne Diesel Fuel Additive Performance Formula to the first tank.

As stated previously I removed the Facit in-line pump before the trip and had to bleed air from the diesel filter head every morning. With reference to the picture below it appears as if the filter head is actually leaking fuel at the seam above the heater and temp connectors. This is the third OEM filter head!!!! Any ideas regarding the cause?
I am still planning on dropping the tank to locate the source of the air leak.

rancherman · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:26 pm

Glad you made it home!! The more I read and work on these, the less confidant for use as a long-range cruiser.

Wild swing at the fence here... Some additives are/were pretty harsh on rubber components. I'd think by now, most components should be pretty well formulated and compatible with just about any well-known additives used. That said, just because it says 'compatible'.... doesn't always mean 'long term'.. There may be some 'regional' LOL< 'Continental'... differences in products too. 3 heads in a row seems suspiciously like something in the fuel.

Might be time to swap out to one of the alternative filter heads.. Personally, I wouldn't mind not having the water in fuel sensor, if you find a filter head that uses elements w/o the sensor provision. I'm a diesel guy, and already have the 'bleed off the water' engrained from working on all the other engines I own.
Hood open?? check the oil and fluids, drain the water off... It's routine.
I'd also think if you live and operate your CRD in an area that doesn't need a block heater, then a fuel heater probably isn't required either. Not sure how the ecm would respond to not having that circuit hooked up.. 'faulty fuel heater' code???
There are filter heads with the heater already in place, if you desire to have it.

gollygeemister · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:07 pm

Ludi Neethling wrote:

As stated previously I removed the Facit in-line pump before the trip and had to bleed air from the diesel filter head every morning. With reference to the picture below it appears as if the filter head is actually leaking fuel at the seam above the heater and temp connectors. This is the third OEM filter head!!!! Any ideas regarding the cause?
I am still planning on dropping the tank to locate the source of the air leak.

I really doubt the seal between the heater and the priming head is leaking. More likely the bleeder screw is leaking and it wicks down and around to the circular portion where you have the arrow drawn. I've seen it happen personally.

rankom · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:09 pm

updated fuel filter housing is just as good as 1st gen , so i did get a warranty on it because it leaked at same spot as yours , also i did update o ring seals to cummins flared liped , bs 12 or 14mm , so copper washer are gone to garbage , long ago . 15 psi holding good , no leaks and primer push button is firm all the time , and my CRD is just a toy so i drive it about once in two years so it holds fuel pressure , for long time , thanks to cummins updated washer banjo bolts seals.

Ludi Neethling · **Joined:** Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:04 am **Posts:** 87

Thank you Rancom. The filter head is definitely leaking diesel. I am going to take it apart and see if it can be fixed. I noticed that the filter head (obtained from the local Jeep dealer) has a stencil on top of the mounting bracket indicating that it was "Made In China". It would be interesting to hear from other KJ CRD owners about the origin of their filter heads.

Further to my original query I have a gut feeling that the glow plugs are not heating effectively therefore the difficult starting when cold. I tested the glow plugs and they are fine. I also took out both ambient temp sensors (situated both sides of the radiator) because I am not sure which one (or both) is used by the ECM to provide input to the glow plug control module upon cold start. They were very dirty (13 years of grit...). After cleaning the sensor faces I replaced them. At this stage this appears to have a positive result because the engine started easier, even with the air in the filter head.

rankom · **Posted:** Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:35 pm

ok 1st i would upgrade banjo bolt washers to rubber lip style , and replace coolant temp sensor , because it my helps for your cold start problem , also etecnos 7v gp had so many upgrades , latest design is better does not fail like previous batches , but it is not the best choice . 5v is best so far , i made mistake kept buying them 7 v etecnos so i do have collections of them in my tool box.

Ludi Neethling · **Joined:** Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:04 am **Posts:** 87

Rancom, forgive my ignorance, but if the coolant temp sensor is faulty would that not show on the coolant temp meter on the dash? The instrument panel meter indicates the correct temp.

rancherman · **Posted:** Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:27 pm

Ludi Neethling wrote:

Rancom, forgive my ignorance, but if the coolant temp sensor is faulty would that not show on the coolant temp meter on the dash? The instrument panel meter indicates the correct temp.

look at it this way; Coolant temp actual may be 150 degrees or even 200, but a faulty sensor could send the signal that it's 170-180.. (which puts the needle in the correct 'normal' zone)

rankom · **Posted:** Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:19 pm

thanks rancherman for answering that question , reason i mentioned coolant sensor is ,that ecu needs to receive correct coolant temp in order to keep glow plugs working properly, yes 7v etecnos not heating up like 5v but i have them in canada and they work good above 0 celsius , below 0 C , engine will start but with few tries . if my jeep sits in garage no mater what it stars right up , and again temp in my garage does not drop below 10 celsius .

Ludi Neethling · **Joined:** Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:04 am **Posts:** 87

Sorry for the sounds of silence from my side. I decided to do all the work before reporting progress. I've replaced the injectors (luckily the originals still in good shape, so I used them) and had them "paired" to the ECM. Interestingly, the Jeep started with a lot of smoking before the "pairing" but that is now sorted. Today I am going to drop the tank, clean it and look at the quick couplers inside the tank at the top below the tank module "cap". That could apparently also be an air leak source. I also replaced the fuel filter head because the current one leaked diesel. Will keep you posted. Rancherman, I will keep the water temp sensor in mind. Thanks for that.

giacomo.m · **Posted:** Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:25 am

Hi Ludi Neethling
thanks for updating the problem,but which fuel filter head did you to fit ?
genuine Chrysler/Jeep ?

Giacomo

Ludi Neethling · **Joined:** Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:04 am **Posts:** 87

Hi giacomo.m
Yes. I used original/upgraded Mopar product. When I got the Jeep in 2013 I replaced the first generation (no 1) head with new/upgraded one (no 2). As I was still struggling with air in fuel with (no 2), I also replaced it with a second new/upgraded (no 3) filter head in 2016. At the same time (2016) I fitted an in-line Facit pump in front of the tank. At first this seemed to be my solution. A couple of months ago (no 3) started leaking at the seam above the electrical plugs. I decided to remove the Facit just to find that I now got air from the tank as well as the filter head.

Currently busy to take out the tank, clean it and see if I can detect the origin of the air leak inside the tank. Really hope to find a solution. I'll post my findings here. The local Jeep dealer indicated that they no longer stock the fuel module, even if I wanted to replace it.

The ideal would be to import/install an in-tank lift pump like WWDiesel and others on this forum. Last time I checked Sasquatch did not export lift pumps to South Africa.

Ludi Neethling · **Joined:** Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:04 am **Posts:** 87

I've removed the fuel tank and it was surprisingly clean. I still cleaned it out again. I checked the tank module and it is clear of any blockages. If the source of the air leak is the tank module the only place is where the fuel feed pipe that comes from the bottom of the module, is connected tot the module head. My idea is to apply some Wynn's Silver RTV at the top where the pipe meets the module top in an attempt to make an air tight seal. According to their website it is diesel resistant.
Could this work as a sealant or does anyone have other suggestions.

If this is not the source, the problem must be with the filter head, even though I replaced it and can see no traces of diesel leaking out.

For those who read this post, if it was possible I would definitely go the in-tank pump route but that is not available here.

rancherman · **Posted:** Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:45 am

I thought the Carter module being used to retrofit our jeeps is a unit for a Dodge pickup running the Cummins diesel.
Not sure which year of Dodge... My guess is 2002-3 and up... but the point is; you probably can find one (in tank pump module) 'locally'.
Either case, whether it's sasquatch or your local parts house sourced, you have to do some modification of the float arm to make it 'fit' your Jeep tank. Sounds like it's an easy modification.

You'll have to do your own 'plug and play' retro in regards to the electrical. Use quality wire, and I'd solder and use shrink wrap all the new connections.
Sasquatch offers a nice and quick 'harness' that makes the swap fast and neat.. but if they don't send to SA.... :roll:

Couple of thoughts on using any form of sealant 'in tank'.. You may get really good results, and long lasting.... but it could go bad in short order! Leaving a blob of 'snot' swirling around in your tank!
'Resistant' to me, means the clock is ticking on it's expected life!!

OR, You can possibly 'fix' your existing module:
Study your module. Can you eliminate that whole 'accordian' piping.. and replace with a FUEL PROOF hose (such as the blue silicone) and simply go with hose clamps at the bottom (suction part of module) and then buzz off the bung(s) on the top< drill out the top< put in a brass elbow/bulkhead connector< attach the new blue (or whatever) to the bottom<attach vehicle fuel line to exterior bung??? A person can get pretty creative with a handful of fittings/hose/clamps!
Keep in mind, all connections need fuel PROOF seals and hose. Natural rubber is a NO-NO.

Look around locally for the dodge cummins pump!! Edit; Dodge sold their Cummins powered pickups in SA didn't they? I may be assuming too much!!
WWdiesel; throw a rope here with which year of Dodge he needs to look for!

Ludi Neethling · **Joined:** Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:04 am **Posts:** 87

Thank you Rancherman. I already decided against using RTV in the tank, due to the reasons you mentioned. As far as I know only a couple of Dodge vehicles (SUV/sedan) were available here but not the pickup.

I think I identified one possibility. Way back when I started this search and rescue mission I also modified the rubber hose from the fuel steel pipe to the filter head and fastened it with hose clamps both sides. This was before I installed the Facit in-line fuel pump. I decided to replace this hose as well and when I unscrewed the clamp attaching it to the steel fuel supply line it simply popped off. The pressure created by the Facit gradually started to "pop" the hose off. This was definitely a possible leak source and a potential disaster waiting to happen. Lesson learnt....

Currently busy putting the fuel tank back. Hopefully this will end as a happily ever after story.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:53 am

Fuel Pump MOPAR 5143160AB fits 05-09 Dodge Ram 5.9L-L6

Intank Fuel Pump PN's:
Airtex E7181M In-tank Lift Pump 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD
Mopar: 5143160AB
Airtex E7181M
CARTER P76148M

On the float arm, simply replace the OEM arm on the new module with the OEM arm. They are very easy to swap.
See this for install details:> http://www.auerbach.ca/kj/lift_pump/

Never use RTV type sealant on any fuel system part. It will swell up and get real gooey and useless.

IDParts, RockAuto, along with several others also sell the pump module, not sure if any of them ship to SA?
or
Google the part numbers listed above to see what if any of them are available in your location. :google:

rancherman · **Posted:** Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:17 pm

There 'should' be some ebay sellers that ship 'worldwide' too..

edit; here's one for 49 bucks. Ships to S. Africa https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Fuel-Pump- ... E#shpCntId

That 'fix' you did certainly could be a problem like you suggested! Rubber hose these days has wild quality.. Some are better than others!! Especially when 'underhood' temps attack it too. They get hard, lose their 'bite'.. and leak around the barb or push- on piping.

Ludi Neethling · **Joined:** Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:04 am **Posts:** 87

I cleaned and re-installed the tank with new hoses between the under body steel fuel line, fuel tank and filter head. I also replaced the leaking filter head. Still getting a small amount of air from somewhere but much better. No more hard start in the morning.
Bottom line: Air in fuel on low pressure side - hard cold start guaranteed.

As a permanent solution, I have an in-tank lift pump (Carter or Mopar) on my wish list.

Thank you WWDiesel and Rancherman for your pump recommendations.

After my experience (see previous posts for details) with an in-line "pulse" type pump, I would not go that route again.

A big thank you to this forum. I would really have been screwed without all the knowledge/expertise available here.

rancherman · **Posted:** Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:27 pm

Ludi Neethling wrote:

I cleaned and re-installed the tank with new hoses between the under body steel fuel line, fuel tank and filter head. I also replaced the leaking filter head. Still getting a small amount of air from somewhere but much better. No more hard start in the morning.
Bottom line: Air in fuel on low pressure side - hard cold start guaranteed.

As a permanent solution, I have an in-tank lift pump (Carter or Mopar) on my wish list.

Thank you WWDiesel and Rancherman for your pump recommendations.

After my experience (see previous posts for details) with an in-line "pulse" type pump, I would not go that route again.

A big thank you to this forum. I would really have been screwed without all the knowledge/expertise available here.

Until your new pump comes in, try keeping the tank as full as you can. Try to keep it above half a tank. The higher the level in the tank, the easier it is to 'suck' out the fuel.. and there will be somewhat less overall negative pressure in the supply line.. and less air drawn in.
Glad it's starting better for you!

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:01 pm

rancherman wrote:

Ludi Neethling wrote:

I cleaned and re-installed the tank with new hoses between the under body steel fuel line, fuel tank and filter head. I also replaced the leaking filter head. Still getting a small amount of air from somewhere but much better. No more hard start in the morning.
Bottom line: Air in fuel on low pressure side - hard cold start guaranteed.

As a permanent solution, I have an in-tank lift pump (Carter or Mopar) on my wish list.

Thank you WWDiesel and Rancherman for your pump recommendations.

After my experience (see previous posts for details) with an in-line "pulse" type pump, I would not go that route again.

A big thank you to this forum. I would really have been screwed without all the knowledge/expertise available here.

Until your new pump comes in, try keeping the tank as full as you can. Try to keep it above half a tank. The higher the level in the tank, the easier it is to 'suck' out the fuel.. and there will be somewhat less overall negative pressure in the supply line.. and less air drawn in.
Glad it's starting better for you!

X2. These things really don't like ANY air in the fuel!

2005 Cherokee KJ CRD 2.8 Hard Start In Morning problem found

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