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 Post subject: I washed my engine, and now I can't do a thing with it...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:58 pm 
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I was cleaning up my '06 CRD prior to a long road trip, and while I was waiting for my air filter to dry, I figured I'd clean the dirt & grime off of the engine itself. I pulled the plastic cover off the top (replacing the oil filler cap, of course), made sure everything was secure, and sprayed off the engine using a standard garden-hose-end sprayer, nothing super high-pressure.

Since then, for the first ~5-10 minutes of operation, the transmission shifts hard and won't go into lockout (at ~65mph). After 5-10 minutes runtime, everything goes back to normal, transmission shifts smoothly, goes into lockout as it should. I can run it as long as I want to after that, and it's just fine. But if I stop the Libby, turn off the key, and start it up again, the issue repeats--so it's not dependent on the engine being warm or cold, it's more like it's on a countdown timer.

It's been this way for 2 weeks now, and last week I was on a 2400-mile road trip, so it's had plenty of time to dry out. Any ideas on what might be causing this weird behavior?

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 Post subject: Re: I washed my engine, and now I can't do a thing with it..
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:55 pm 
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jlg89 wrote:
I was cleaning up my '06 CRD prior to a long road trip, and while I was waiting for my air filter to dry, I figured I'd clean the dirt & grime off of the engine itself. I pulled the plastic cover off the top (replacing the oil filler cap, of course), made sure everything was secure, and sprayed off the engine using a standard garden-hose-end sprayer, nothing super high-pressure.

Since then, for the first ~5-10 minutes of operation, the transmission shifts hard and won't go into lockout (at ~65mph). After 5-10 minutes runtime, everything goes back to normal, transmission shifts smoothly, goes into lockout as it should. I can run it as long as I want to after that, and it's just fine. But if I stop the Libby, turn off the key, and start it up again, the issue repeats--so it's not dependent on the engine being warm or cold, it's more like it's on a countdown timer.

It's been this way for 2 weeks now, and last week I was on a 2400-mile road trip, so it's had plenty of time to dry out. Any ideas on what might be causing this weird behavior?



I do not have a clue at this point, but perhaps despite your efforts to seal everything up, water may have gotten into the transmission.

I would do a complete transmission service. Have you upgraded to torque converter yet?

Calling me is better than communicating online... I can work and talk to you at the same time.

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Last edited by TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK on Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I washed my engine, and now I can't do a thing with it..
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:00 pm 
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jlg89 wrote:
I was cleaning up my '06 CRD prior to a long road trip, and while I was waiting for my air filter to dry, I figured I'd clean the dirt & grime off of the engine itself. I pulled the plastic cover off the top (replacing the oil filler cap, of course), made sure everything was secure, and sprayed off the engine using a standard garden-hose-end sprayer, nothing super high-pressure.

Since then, for the first ~5-10 minutes of operation, the transmission shifts hard and won't go into lockout (at ~65mph). After 5-10 minutes runtime, everything goes back to normal, transmission shifts smoothly, goes into lockout as it should. I can run it as long as I want to after that, and it's just fine. But if I stop the Libby, turn off the key, and start it up again, the issue repeats--so it's not dependent on the engine being warm or cold, it's more like it's on a countdown timer.

It's been this way for 2 weeks now, and last week I was on a 2400-mile road trip, so it's had plenty of time to dry out. Any ideas on what might be causing this weird behavior?


Check the wiring harness from the TCM on the passenger side of the engine compartment to behind the engine and make sure nothing is wrong. Especially near the A/C accumulator on the firewall passenger side. I had to chase a short(taped up the wires and added loom) from the TCM that was causing a CEL light and transmission to go into limp mode i.e. no TC lockup and hard shifts. Do you get any codes? Some have had issue with the the TCM harness plug into the TCM and have R&R the plug. Clean with Electronic Cleaner such has CRC brand on both the harness side and the pins. Let it all dry well and re-attach. Careful removing the TCM plug if you go this route. You need to remove the Turbo Vacuum tower for access to the center bolt of the plug. Back it off a little and wiggle the plug out, repeat until unseated.

Image

Good luck.

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Purchased 2006 LIberty CRD 82K 01/16
SS Cat Back Exhaust, Full EGR Delete,Provent, Michelin 245/70 R16 AT/2
Stock Tune, Serpentine Belt Service,160 Amp Alternator
10/17 96K, New Head, Injectors, ARP Studs, HDS T-Stat
04/18 99K, New Reman Trans
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01/19 106K, OME Lift, Eaton TruTrac LSD in new rebuilt diff


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 Post subject: Re: I washed my engine, and now I can't do a thing with it..
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:29 pm 
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I’ve checked out the wiring and the connector, cleaned it all up, and still have the hard-shift issue for the first 10-15 minutes of driving. Could it be a bad TCM? Is there a sensor that affects the TCM shift patterns?

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 Post subject: Re: I washed my engine, and now I can't do a thing with it..
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:00 am 
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One of the things that affect the shifting of this transmission is the transmission fluid temperature. If you have a good code reader capable of monitoring the transmission check to see if you are getting good temps from the transmission. Bad temps will cause the trans to shift like a bronco. Since this all happened to you after a engine wash I'm still leaning toward an intermittent short somewhere. Get the transmission runtime data read.

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Purchased 2006 LIberty CRD 82K 01/16
SS Cat Back Exhaust, Full EGR Delete,Provent, Michelin 245/70 R16 AT/2
Stock Tune, Serpentine Belt Service,160 Amp Alternator
10/17 96K, New Head, Injectors, ARP Studs, HDS T-Stat
04/18 99K, New Reman Trans
09/18 104K, Lift Pump
01/19 106K, OME Lift, Eaton TruTrac LSD in new rebuilt diff


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 Post subject: Re: I washed my engine, and now I can't do a thing with it..
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:01 am 
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vwroad87 wrote:
One of the things that affect the shifting of this transmission is the transmission fluid temperature. If you have a good code reader capable of monitoring the transmission check to see if you are getting good temps from the transmission. Bad temps will cause the trans to shift like a bronco. Since this all happened to you after a engine wash I'm still leaning toward an intermittent short somewhere. Get the transmission runtime data read.

Do you know of an inexpensive reader that will read transmission fluid temperature? I have tried several options and so far none have been capable of reading the transmission fluid temperature. :banghead:

Ended up installing an inline block with sensor and a temperature gauge but would love to know exactly what the on board electronics is seeing.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: I washed my engine, and now I can't do a thing with it..
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:04 am 
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I stopped by my favorite shop this morning and had them check for codes. Sure enough, it's throwing a "P0714 Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor Circuit Intermittent" error. So there's probably a connector that still needs cleaning and/or reworking. Will dig and update...

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Current: 2006 Liberty CRD Sport (SunCoast TC, GDE EcoTune, SAMCO hoses, Fumoto oil drain valve), 1998 Wrangler Sport (2.4L, 2" lift, winch)
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 Post subject: Re: I washed my engine, and now I can't do a thing with it..
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:49 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
vwroad87 wrote:
One of the things that affect the shifting of this transmission is the transmission fluid temperature. If you have a good code reader capable of monitoring the transmission check to see if you are getting good temps from the transmission. Bad temps will cause the trans to shift like a bronco. Since this all happened to you after a engine wash I'm still leaning toward an intermittent short somewhere. Get the transmission runtime data read.

Do you know of an inexpensive reader that will read transmission fluid temperature? I have tried several options and so far none have been capable of reading the transmission fluid temperature. :banghead:

Ended up installing an inline block with sensor and a temperature gauge but would love to know exactly what the on board electronics is seeing.


Nice images, wow that fluid is hot-ish, mine never goes above 150F but I do have an aluminum deep pan. My pan has a port in the side and that's where I take my measurement for my gauge. I don't have a good answer for the cheap TCM temp readings, I have a very expensive snap-on scanner that reads everything. Got it used off Ebay for 1200.00 Nice piece of kit, I would have had to tow my vehicle to the dealer and pay a few hundred for them to Re-learn the transmission after I swapped it out, decide to get the scanner instead. The Re-learn took all of twenty seconds! Stealerships. Plus don't want some meat head giving my CRD an Italian/French/German/American/Spanish.... tune-up during a test drive.

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Purchased 2006 LIberty CRD 82K 01/16
SS Cat Back Exhaust, Full EGR Delete,Provent, Michelin 245/70 R16 AT/2
Stock Tune, Serpentine Belt Service,160 Amp Alternator
10/17 96K, New Head, Injectors, ARP Studs, HDS T-Stat
04/18 99K, New Reman Trans
09/18 104K, Lift Pump
01/19 106K, OME Lift, Eaton TruTrac LSD in new rebuilt diff


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 Post subject: Re: I washed my engine, and now I can't do a thing with it..
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:54 pm 
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jlg89 wrote:
I stopped by my favorite shop this morning and had them check for codes. Sure enough, it's throwing a "P0714 Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor Circuit Intermittent" error. So there's probably a connector that still needs cleaning and/or reworking. Will dig and update...


Do you see that picture above? I had the dreaded P0714 code because of a hidden short. Check the harness carefully and the female pins in the harness connector.

Image from Yeti's post
Image

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Purchased 2006 LIberty CRD 82K 01/16
SS Cat Back Exhaust, Full EGR Delete,Provent, Michelin 245/70 R16 AT/2
Stock Tune, Serpentine Belt Service,160 Amp Alternator
10/17 96K, New Head, Injectors, ARP Studs, HDS T-Stat
04/18 99K, New Reman Trans
09/18 104K, Lift Pump
01/19 106K, OME Lift, Eaton TruTrac LSD in new rebuilt diff


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 Post subject: Re: I washed my engine, and now I can't do a thing with it..
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:49 pm 
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vwroad87 wrote:
wow that fluid is hot-ish, mine never goes above 150F but I do have an aluminum deep pan. My pan has a port in the side and that's where I take my measurement for my gauge.

How did you get around the very limited clearance between the tranny pan and skid plate to install a deep pan? :?:

The reason its hot-ish is the block w/sensor is located in the fluid line right after it comes out of the transmission going TO the fluid cooler up front.
So the fluid being read is at its hottest temperature.

I also added a 10 plate stacked auxiliary cooler in series after the OEM cooler.
May not have been the best location, but I read pan mounted sensor is not very indicative of actual fluid temperatures?
In its current location, it reacts very fast to changes in loading or the fluid being "worked" harder like in city stop and go driving.
Guess I need to install another block with sensor in the return line with an inside switch so I can see how well the coolers are functioning?

This is the in-line block w/sensor:

Image


front mounted 10 plate stacked cooler:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: I washed my engine, and now I can't do a thing with it..
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:45 pm 
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Hoo boy. My tranny shop was able to find one connector that I had missed, and of course that was the one with some corrosion on it. They still saw some odd things going on with the temps, so they pulled the pan and found that the torque converter has been shedding a lot of metal--so much that it gunked up the solenoid pack, including the temp sensor. :grim: So that was at least part of the problem. I'm having them install either a Euro or a SunCoast torque converter, TransGo shift kit, etc. with the transmission rebuild. This one got expensive all of a sudden, but at least I'll be able to upgrade my GDE ECO Tune to a Hot Tune, once it's all said & done!

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Current: 2006 Liberty CRD Sport (SunCoast TC, GDE EcoTune, SAMCO hoses, Fumoto oil drain valve), 1998 Wrangler Sport (2.4L, 2" lift, winch)
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 Post subject: Re: I washed my engine, and now I can't do a thing with it..
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:01 pm 
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jlg89 wrote:
Hoo boy. My tranny shop was able to find one connector that I had missed, and of course that was the one with some corrosion on it. They still saw some odd things going on with the temps, so they pulled the pan and found that the torque converter has been shedding a lot of metal--so much that it gunked up the solenoid pack, including the temp sensor. So that was at least part of the problem. I'm having them install either a Euro or a SunCoast torque converter, TransGo shift kit, etc. with the transmission rebuild. This one got expensive all of a sudden, but at least I'll be able to upgrade my GDE ECO Tune to a Hot Tune, once it's all said & done!



Whoa partner, if they found excessive "metal" you need more than a TC, how can they determine if the TC clutches are shedding and not the clutch packs? Also the solenoid had a thermistor that cannot get junked up. It's a solid state device that measures the temp of the metal it's attach to inside the solenoid pack. Been down that road. The clutch material in a lockup TC is very similar to clutch pack material and since the circulation is through the pump then that material whether TC or clutch has gone through at least part of the tranny before it got picked up by the filters.

I would have a rebuilt transmission installed from street smart and ditch their TC for a sun coast... But I've already spent thousands on my rig and there is no going back for me now. :5SHOTS:

dp

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Purchased 2006 LIberty CRD 82K 01/16
SS Cat Back Exhaust, Full EGR Delete,Provent, Michelin 245/70 R16 AT/2
Stock Tune, Serpentine Belt Service,160 Amp Alternator
10/17 96K, New Head, Injectors, ARP Studs, HDS T-Stat
04/18 99K, New Reman Trans
09/18 104K, Lift Pump
01/19 106K, OME Lift, Eaton TruTrac LSD in new rebuilt diff


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 Post subject: Re: I washed my engine, and now I can't do a thing with it..
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:13 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
vwroad87 wrote:
wow that fluid is hot-ish, mine never goes above 150F but I do have an aluminum deep pan. My pan has a port in the side and that's where I take my measurement for my gauge.

How did you get around the very limited clearance between the tranny pan and skid plate to install a deep pan? :?:

The reason its hot-ish is the block w/sensor is located in the fluid line right after it comes out of the transmission going TO the fluid cooler up front.
So the fluid being read is at its hottest temperature.

I also added a 10 plate stacked auxiliary cooler in series after the OEM cooler.
May not have been the best location, but I read pan mounted sensor is not very indicative of actual fluid temperatures?
In its current location, it reacts very fast to changes in loading or the fluid being "worked" harder like in city stop and go driving.
Guess I need to install another block with sensor in the return line with an inside switch so I can see how well the coolers are functioning?

This is the in-line block w/sensor:




front mounted 10 plate stacked cooler:



I have modified the skid plate with small stand offs on the rear attachment points, I'm not a big 4x4'r. Just use the jeep to get me and the pup up to the mountains for truffle/morel... hunting and backcountry telemark ski camping so the clearance is not an issue for me. Also still have a 2.5 inch lift to install.

Now one thing that can be an issue is if you don't circulate enough fluid fast enough to remove the heat on the components they are attempting to cool. Based on my experience as a transmission rebuilder the fluid circulation going on in the pan is indicative of transmission temp. I.E. that fluid is really moving in the pan from the TC driving it via the pump. Also the factory thermistor is in the pan embedded in the solenoid pack. My external and solenoid pack temps are very close.

_________________
Purchased 2006 LIberty CRD 82K 01/16
SS Cat Back Exhaust, Full EGR Delete,Provent, Michelin 245/70 R16 AT/2
Stock Tune, Serpentine Belt Service,160 Amp Alternator
10/17 96K, New Head, Injectors, ARP Studs, HDS T-Stat
04/18 99K, New Reman Trans
09/18 104K, Lift Pump
01/19 106K, OME Lift, Eaton TruTrac LSD in new rebuilt diff


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 Post subject: Re: I washed my engine, and now I can't do a thing with it..
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:21 pm 
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Well, the end of the story (hopefully) is that I now have a fully overhauled tranny, with a SunCoast TC and a heavy-duty TransGo shift kit. Nothing like dropping four boat units on a Friday, but at least yesterday was payday. :dizzy: Looking forward to hauling my Casita with this new & improved rig.

Thanks, all, for your input. Happy Thanksgiving!

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Current: 2006 Liberty CRD Sport (SunCoast TC, GDE EcoTune, SAMCO hoses, Fumoto oil drain valve), 1998 Wrangler Sport (2.4L, 2" lift, winch)
Previous: '43 Willys, '75 CJ-5, '82 Wagoneer Limited, '94 Wrangler Renegade, '96 Cherokee


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 Post subject: Re: I washed my engine, and now I can't do a thing with it..
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:16 pm 
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jlg89 wrote:
Well, the end of the story (hopefully) is that I now have a fully overhauled tranny, with a SunCoast TC and a heavy-duty TransGo shift kit. Nothing like dropping four boat units on a Friday, but at least yesterday was payday. :dizzy: Looking forward to hauling my Casita with this new & improved rig.
Thanks, all, for your input. Happy Thanksgiving!

You will love it, and best of all it's now bullet proof! :D

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Carter Intank-pmp
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 Post subject: Re: I washed my engine, and now I can't do a thing with it..
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:13 am 
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Down the road a couple of years with my new tranny...it’s still going strong. Every now & then that temp sensor connector fritzes out again and causes hard shifting. I crawl under there, clean the connector with good old WD-40, clear the codes with my handy OBD app & dongle, and its good to go. At some point I should probably just replace that connector...

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Current: 2006 Liberty CRD Sport (SunCoast TC, GDE EcoTune, SAMCO hoses, Fumoto oil drain valve), 1998 Wrangler Sport (2.4L, 2" lift, winch)
Previous: '43 Willys, '75 CJ-5, '82 Wagoneer Limited, '94 Wrangler Renegade, '96 Cherokee


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 Post subject: Re: I washed my engine, and now I can't do a thing with it..
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:16 pm 
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jlg89 wrote:
Down the road a couple of years with my new tranny...it’s still going strong. Every now & then that temp sensor connector fritzes out again and causes hard shifting. I crawl under there, clean the connector with good old WD-40, clear the codes with my handy OBD app & dongle, and its good to go. At some point I should probably just replace that connector...

Which connector? Number, location, etc...
Got any pictures? Posting may help someone else in the future. :)

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Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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