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 Post subject: Re: CRD PCM Part Number Compatibilities
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:32 pm 
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I have gotten my multi-tester out and followed the service manual. I checked the crankshaft position sensor pins at the ECM harness against ground - all good, then I checked their resistance against each other. The manual on page 9-904 says that the resistance should be above 1000 Ohms. Mine is 831 Ohms. It's fairly close but not above. Should I take that to mean that I have a short between the wires either in the harness or the sensor itself? It's 29 degrees today. If it were warmer I would say that the resistance would be even less than 831 Ohms.

I may be misinterpreting the diagnostic test. I made the assumption that the test is checking the actual crank sensor but it may be testing resistance between the two circuits unplugged from the sensor and ECM. - just checking the cable. Did I do that wrong?

Way too cold outside to get under the car to check the wires. My garage is small and is storing my Opel GT and a VW Bus for the winter.

****
I've come back to update the post. I am almost positive that I did it wrong. It was just to check a bridge in the harness. I don't see a magic resistance number for just the sensor. I think the only way to test the actual sensor is with an Oscilloscope.


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 Post subject: Re: CRD PCM Part Number Compatibilities
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:04 pm 
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crdcr8z wrote:
Sir Sam wrote:
crdcr8z wrote:
Now my stupidity has manifested itself. I was so sure that I had a computer problem that I spent too much time chasing the wrong things. I probably always had those glow plug problems. I would bet that someone changed 7v plugs out for 5v ones at some time and this has always been reported. At any rate, I did what Sam suggested and cracked the fuel rail after cranking and got very little fuel. I ran to Oreilly's and got a new filter and stuck it in there, primed it and tried again, - no dice. So i disconnected both rubber lines from the fuel filter assembly and cranked. No fuel came out anywhere! I am not sure which is the in and which is the out but I unhooked the one nearest the driver side first which I believe is going to the fuel rail, - nothing. I then unplugged the other one nearest the passenger side and the same - nothing. When I primed, I must have been sucking the fuel in, but when running, there wasn't any being fed. I guess I have a bad fuel pump. I have been plagued in the past with bad pumps on diff cars. I should have known. It's in the tank too - great... I noticed that there is a fuel injector pump too. Shouldn't I be getting fuel fed to the fuel filter head regardless of that injector pump or could it be part responsible for sucking the tank dry?


I understand your frustration. The collective here can help. But it will be one step at a time. Based on your comments I do not think the glow plugs are an issue.

These jeeps didn't come with a intake fuel pump, the high pressure injection pump sucks fuel all the way from the tank.

Can you put back in the original ECU, clear codes, and see what codes come back?

Does your code reader allow you to read sensor data such as the fuel rail pressure?

I took a video tonight of my spare engine to give you some more information. I hope it helps. Consider replacing the crank sensor, but if possible do some wiring continuity checks with a multimeter between the sensor plugs and the ECU.

I know its a little long but I think there is some good information to help you learn the CRD engine control, maybe nothing in it is the actual problem you have, but it might help you get a little more background on the engine.
https://youtu.be/AvC0ytEsQ6w

You can download the service manual here:
http://colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/

In it you will find wiring diagrams and pinouts, this will tell you which pins you can check for continuity, and also which pins to check at the sensor for power or ground.


Wow! Fantastic Video. You've given me a lot of things to try. I will check that fuel is coming from the injection pump and test for fuel pressure first (After priming again). I have replaced the cam position sensor so it is likely not that. I will have to find the pins for the crank sensor if the fuel is not an issue.
Its going to be colder for the next several days so I hope that the glow plugs are working! Oh and BTW, my OBD II tester is as cheap and generic as they come. Perhaps I should get a better one or borrow one. Mine only shows DTC codes and that's it. I had tried the original PCM after clearing codes and the glow plug codes came back and the P0610 but that is all.
Thanks for the great info and links!


I recommend this Autel if the price doesn't scare you off:
https://amzn.to/2DLxca2

It reads all the modules on the CRD and can display information from them, graph it, and even save that data to an SD card, I have not tried using the data from the SD card on a computer with excel yet however.

The Autel worked very well on my friends GRand Cherokee CRD and managed to find every little computer module the thing had.

It's also very useful for reading things like the individual ABS wheel speed sensors.

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 Post subject: Re: CRD PCM Part Number Compatibilities
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:03 am 
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crdcr8z wrote:
I have gotten my multi-tester out and followed the service manual. I checked the crankshaft position sensor pins at the ECM harness against ground - all good, then I checked their resistance against each other. The manual on page 9-904 says that the resistance should be above 1000 Ohms. Mine is 831 Ohms. It's fairly close but not above. Should I take that to mean that I have a short between the wires either in the harness or the sensor itself? It's 29 degrees today. If it were warmer I would say that the resistance would be even less than 831 Ohms.

I may be misinterpreting the diagnostic test. I made the assumption that the test is checking the actual crank sensor but it may be testing resistance between the two circuits unplugged from the sensor and ECM. - just checking the cable. Did I do that wrong?

Way too cold outside to get under the car to check the wires. My garage is small and is storing my Opel GT and a VW Bus for the winter.

****
I've come back to update the post. I am almost positive that I did it wrong. It was just to check a bridge in the harness. I don't see a magic resistance number for just the sensor. I think the only way to test the actual sensor is with an Oscilloscope.


Hey. The resistance read sounds good. I went and checked 3 others and they are all within the same range. I took some more videos showing how I tested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7raWcur ... Hg0zm-T_mW

The next thing I would say is see if you can get some AC or DC voltage while the engine is cranking from it, sort of like what I was trying to show in the video.

If you don't have a helper you can jumper out the starter relay like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EauvjE5VUU0

If that checks out I think we can rule out those sensors, might need to go back to looking at fuel pressure/flow.

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"Its not about what you can DO with your Jeep, its about where you can GO with your Jeep."
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 Post subject: Re: CRD PCM Part Number Compatibilities
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:45 pm 
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Again, another great video! Thanks for your help. I performed the same test on my CRD this evening with the AC voltage on my test meter. I was getting the same millivolt fluctuations when turning the engine. I would guess that would rule out the CSPS. I wonder if I could rent a fuel pressure tester and if it would attach somehow on the rigid lines. There is no pressure port on the injection manifold. I guess they consider the sensor as all you need. Wow! Those sensors can be a bit pricy! $233 on RockAuto - whew! If it turns out to be that, then I'll have to do some surfing for a cheap one.


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 Post subject: Re: CRD PCM Part Number Compatibilities
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:40 am 
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Fuel rail pressure can be as high as 30,000 psi. Test gauges for that kind of pressure are not cheap. I'd be surprised if you can find one for rent but certainly give it a try.
If you have a Android device you can use the Torque Pro app to monitor various sensors including rail pressure. You will need a ELM327 OBD Bluetooth adapter to make it work.
Its also a excellent code reader.
The app is $20 and the ELM327 is about $20. And you can get cheap android tablets for around $50.

If the rail pressure sensor were bad it should set a code.
With the pressure sensor unplugged, the engine will still start up and run but will be in limp mode with reduced power.
I replaced my sensor with one for a Duramax. Sorry, I don't have the part number at the moment but it was about $130.

So your engine just cranks and cranks but wont start, correct?
Any smoke out the exhaust while its cranking?
If so, that would indicate that fuel is getting into the cylinders but isn't getting hot enough to fully combust.

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 Post subject: Re: CRD PCM Part Number Compatibilities
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:52 pm 
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To check and make sure you are getting a good signal to the injectors from the ECM to fire the injectors, get yourself a NOID test light kit.
Less than 50 bucks from several locations like Autozone, Amazon, and many others.
A great tool kit to have in your tool box when dealing with injection diagnostics. :D

Image

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
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 Post subject: Re: CRD PCM Part Number Compatibilities
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:32 am 
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crdcr8z wrote:
I have gotten my multi-tester out and followed the service manual. I checked the crankshaft position sensor pins at the ECM harness against ground - all good, then I checked their resistance against each other. The manual on page 9-904 says that the resistance should be above 1000 Ohms. Mine is 831 Ohms. It's fairly close but not above. Should I take that to mean that I have a short between the wires either in the harness or the sensor itself? That's about what mine read when it was at ambient temperature. I don't know the temperature when they established that 1000 ohm standard, but I do know that a properly operating CKP (Crankshaft position sensor) will increase resistance as temperature increases. When I tested mine in 200 degree F water it was well over 1000 ohm. They rarely fail at normal ambient temperatures though. Nearly every one described in this site failed at some point between ambient and normal operating temperature. Sometimes with a DTC code, sometimes no codes.

It's 29 degrees today. If it were warmer I would say that the resistance would be even less than 831 Ohms. It will be higher as temperature rises.

I may be misinterpreting the diagnostic test. I made the assumption that the test is checking the actual crank sensor but it may be testing resistance between the two circuits unplugged from the sensor and ECM. - just checking the cable. Did I do that wrong? You're testing the resistance of the fine wire winding in the hall effect unit.

Way too cold outside to get under the car to check the wires. My garage is small and is storing my Opel GT and a VW Bus for the winter.

****
I've come back to update the post. I am almost positive that I did it wrong. It was just to check a bridge in the harness. I don't see a magic resistance number for just the sensor. I think the only way to test the actual sensor is with an Oscilloscope. If you checked the pins outlined in the FSM, you did it right.

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 Post subject: Re: CRD PCM Part Number Compatibilities
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:47 am 
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flash7210 wrote:
Fuel rail pressure can be as high as 30,000 psi. Test gauges for that kind of pressure are not cheap. I'd be surprised if you can find one for rent but certainly give it a try.
If you have a Android device you can use the Torque Pro app to monitor various sensors including rail pressure. You will need a ELM327 OBD Bluetooth adapter to make it work.
Its also a excellent code reader.
The app is $20 and the ELM327 is about $20. And you can get cheap android tablets for around $50.

If the rail pressure sensor were bad it should set a code.
With the pressure sensor unplugged, the engine will still start up and run but will be in limp mode with reduced power. And smoke like hell
I replaced my sensor with one for a Duramax. Sorry, I don't have the part number at the moment but it was about $130. Cummins sensors will work as well, and can be gotten from Amazon for ~ $60 I used this one Works perfectly with this gauge

So your engine just cranks and cranks but wont start, correct? This also happens when cranking voltage drops below about 11.5V It will seem to crank fine, but the cranking voltage is low enough that the ECM forgets to trigger the injectors or something. Try charging your battery to make sure it's at 100% capacity when cranking. If your alternator quit, it would have died when the battery got down to that point, even if your lights and stuff are still working. When my battery discharges to below 80% It will crank until the starter burns up, and not start. If I charge it fully, it fires up immediately.
Any smoke out the exhaust while its cranking?
If so, that would indicate that fuel is getting into the cylinders but isn't getting hot enough to fully combust.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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 Post subject: Re: CRD PCM Part Number Compatibilities
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:16 pm 
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It got warm out again so I decided to look at the jeep some more. I started by pulling a glow plug to find that it ohmed out at > 200 Ohms. I suspect that they are all bad. I put it back in and rented a decent OBD tool from Autozone. It says the the fuel rail pressure while cranking was from 7,000 to 12,000PSI. Seems right to me. My MAP sensor does not seem to change readings when cranking. I cleaned it and still no dice so It's either bad or there is no vacuum. I removed the top three bolts of the timing cover and had my son crank the engine. The belt looks intact and makes its rounds.

Now for the disturbing part... I unhooked the breather hose and it seems that the engine is puffing air out of the intake instead of sucking... Not good... I had previously viewed Sam's timing belt replacement videos. I am wondering if my CAMs are out of time since there is no woodruff key on the cam sprockets and one of them could have spun on the shafts. IDK. Are these interference engines that will bend valves? This is starting to seem hopeless.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

The car does fire somewhat.


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 Post subject: Re: CRD PCM Part Number Compatibilities
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:02 pm 
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crdcr8z wrote:
It got warm out again so I decided to look at the jeep some more. I started by pulling a glow plug to find that it ohmed out at > 200 Ohms. I suspect that they are all bad. I put it back in and rented a decent OBD tool from Autozone. It says the the fuel rail pressure while cranking was from 7,000 to 12,000PSI. Seems right to me. My MAP sensor does not seem to change readings when cranking. I cleaned it and still no dice so It's either bad or there is no vacuum. I removed the top three bolts of the timing cover and had my son crank the engine. The belt looks intact and makes its rounds.

Now for the disturbing part... I unhooked the breather hose and it seems that the engine is puffing air out of the intake instead of sucking... Not good... I had previously viewed Sam's timing belt replacement videos. I am wondering if my CAMs are out of time since there is no woodruff key on the cam sprockets and one of them could have spun on the shafts. IDK. Are these interference engines that will bend valves? This is starting to seem hopeless.

Yes they are interference engines and it does not take much out of time for the valves to contact the tops of the pistons.
When this happens, it normally breaks or damages the rocker arms which are designed to break when this occurs.
Only sure way to tell for sure is to remove timing belt cover, put engine at 3:00 after top dead center, insert alignment pin into flywheel, and then see if both cam alignment pins will insert properly indicating everything is still in time.


Any thoughts are appreciated.

The car does fire somewhat.

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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 Post subject: Re: CRD PCM Part Number Compatibilities
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:45 am 
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If it’s puffing out the intake it could be rockers. Check out my videos on the intake backfiring, and my videos of leakdown testing.

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