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 Post subject: Allegedly, a diesel in the new Gladiator
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:44 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Allegedly, a diesel in the new Gladiator
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:54 pm 
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Don't hold your breath on that diesel option, it would be a real nice surprise if it is offered but at what cost.... :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Allegedly, a diesel in the new Gladiator
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:06 pm 
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In the new wrangler the diesel option is only $1k extra, but the engine block heater is an add-on still for like $87.

Not bad honestly.

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 Post subject: Re: Allegedly, a diesel in the new Gladiator
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:23 pm 
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Ill see it when I believe it! :furious:

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 Post subject: Re: Allegedly, a diesel in the new Gladiator
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:11 pm 
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Yes, and IMHO Mopar will get a new group of buyers to experiment TC, etc. etc. on. :banghead:

Perhaps we'll need a new sub forum once it is released?

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 Post subject: Re: Allegedly, a diesel in the new Gladiator
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:01 pm 
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snowballs wrote:
Yes, and IMHO Mopar will get a new group of buyers to experiment TC, etc. etc. on. :banghead:
Perhaps we'll need a new sub forum once it is released?

Yep, John Q Public gets to test and find all the bugs and bad design issues along with bad decisions by the bean counters just like many have done on the Jeep Liberty CRD. :banghead:

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 Post subject: Re: Allegedly, a diesel in the new Gladiator
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:34 pm 
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Hexus wrote:
In the new wrangler the diesel option is only $1k extra, but the engine block heater is an add-on still for like $87.

Not bad honestly.

I'll say. My 6.5 in the '95 was I think 3500 and the 6.6 in the GMC was 4 grand. Both of those make a value proposition for diesel suspect. At a grand the math changes...

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 Post subject: Re: Allegedly, a diesel in the new Gladiator
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:53 pm 
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If its the same 3.0l v6 diesel and 8 speed thats in my ‘14 grand cherokee, i wouldnt expect any problems. Both have held up great, and have no issues taking abuse behind compound turbos.

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 Post subject: Re: Allegedly, a diesel in the new Gladiator
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:57 pm 
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Hexus wrote:
In the new wrangler the diesel option is only $1k extra, but the engine block heater is an add-on still for like $87.

Not bad honestly.


I think you're mistaken here. The $1000 engine option you're looking at is the 2.0L Turbocharged "eTorque" motor which is a hybrid electric option. This is NOT a diesel motor and I'm guessing is going to be absolutely nutless underneath the body of a Wrangler, even with the improved aerodynamics and weight reduction of the new models. They claim 270hp and 295ft-lb of torque but do not claim under what conditions that is. I'm guessing that is only when the electric motor is assisting and only for a short time while the vehicle accelerates from a stop. Considering that Wranglers are show cars for most of the people who buy them, this option will probably suit most of them well. The only other option currently is the 3.6L Pentastar which has been around for awhile and seems to work well enough. They have not released a diesel option in the U.S. yet, despite them claiming it would be announced Q3 of this year. I truly hope they do, not that I'll be buying one when they do, but so I can afford one in 6 - 8 years used like the CRD :ROTFL:

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 Post subject: Re: Allegedly, a diesel in the new Gladiator
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:46 pm 
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APC9199 wrote:
Hexus wrote:
In the new wrangler the diesel option is only $1k extra, but the engine block heater is an add-on still for like $87.

Not bad honestly.


I think you're mistaken here. The $1000 engine option you're looking at is the 2.0L Turbocharged "eTorque" motor which is a hybrid electric option. This is NOT a diesel motor and I'm guessing is going to be absolutely nutless underneath the body of a Wrangler, even with the improved aerodynamics and weight reduction of the new models. They claim 270hp and 295ft-lb of torque but do not claim under what conditions that is. I'm guessing that is only when the electric motor is assisting and only for a short time while the vehicle accelerates from a stop. Considering that Wranglers are show cars for most of the people who buy them, this option will probably suit most of them well. The only other option currently is the 3.6L Pentastar which has been around for awhile and seems to work well enough. They have not released a diesel option in the U.S. yet, despite them claiming it would be announced Q3 of this year. I truly hope they do, not that I'll be buying one when they do, but so I can afford one in 6 - 8 years used like the CRD :ROTFL:


You should go drive a GTDI motor before making those assumptions. They will pull as hard as a diesel at low RPM. The Jeep 2.0T is rated for 295 ft-lbs at 3000 rpm on the gas engine only. It probably makes 90% of that at 2000 rpm, so ~260 ft-lbs which is still more than a VW 2.0 TDI.

And it doesnt fall on its face at 3000 rpm like a diesel, its just getting going.

eTorque only helps up to ~1200 rpm. It basically is just a Start-Stop assist to help the car get going while the engine is turning back on, so it is not contributing to that 270hp/295 ft-lbs.

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 Post subject: Re: Allegedly, a diesel in the new Gladiator
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:22 pm 
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I'm going to see if I can schedule a test drive with the assertion that I WILL NOT be buying. I am just curious to try the 2.0 Turbo out and see what it can do. Most reviews online say that it is noticeably quicker than the 3.6, but I would still never buy that thing. The amount and complexity of the extra components sounds like an absolute NIGHTMARE to maintain. Not to mention, you need to run higher octane fuel and an increased service interval for it. All in all I see it costing way more in the long run once parts start failing. It may be slightly cheaper to operate while its under warranty, but I bet it instantly loses its inherent value once FCA quits buying broken/failed parts for you.

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 Post subject: Allegedly, a diesel in the new Gladiator
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:43 pm 
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APC9199 wrote:
I'm going to see if I can schedule a test drive with the assertion that I WILL NOT be buying. I am just curious to try the 2.0 Turbo out and see what it can do. Most reviews online say that it is noticeably quicker than the 3.6, but I would still never buy that thing. The amount and complexity of the extra components sounds like an absolute NIGHTMARE to maintain. Not to mention, you need to run higher octane fuel and an increased service interval for it. All in all I see it costing way more in the long run once parts start failing. It may be slightly cheaper to operate while its under warranty, but I bet it instantly loses its inherent value once FCA quits buying broken/failed parts for you.


More complex and expensive to maintain than a Jeep Liberty CRD lol?

I am sure I might be slightly more. The 91 octane is not a requirement, it can be run on 87 no problem but makes a little less power. Just had this discussion with a guy who bought a 2.0T Rubicon on the F150 eco boost forum. I think most GTDI’s will operate on 87 and I know ford 2.7 and 3.5 ecoboost hp and torque ratings are based on 87 octane but will pick up more power on higher octane.

I actually have an adaptive tune on my ecoboost that claims it will run on 85 octane no problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Allegedly, a diesel in the new Gladiator
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:20 am 
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More complex and expensive to maintain than a Jeep Liberty CRD lol?

I think my next vehicle will have a carburetor and a manual transmission... :dizzy:
It will probably only get 15mpg but I don't really care anymore.

I already have such a project in the works but it will be more of toy, not a daily driver. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Allegedly, a diesel in the new Gladiator
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:57 pm 
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mass-hole wrote:
APC9199 wrote:
I'm going to see if I can schedule a test drive with the assertion that I WILL NOT be buying. I am just curious to try the 2.0 Turbo out and see what it can do. Most reviews online say that it is noticeably quicker than the 3.6, but I would still never buy that thing. The amount and complexity of the extra components sounds like an absolute NIGHTMARE to maintain. Not to mention, you need to run higher octane fuel and an increased service interval for it. All in all I see it costing way more in the long run once parts start failing. It may be slightly cheaper to operate while its under warranty, but I bet it instantly loses its inherent value once FCA quits buying broken/failed parts for you.


More complex and expensive to maintain than a Jeep Liberty CRD lol?

I am sure I might be slightly more. The 91 octane is not a requirement, it can be run on 87 no problem but makes a little less power. Just had this discussion with a guy who bought a 2.0T Rubicon on the F150 eco boost forum. I think most GTDI’s will operate on 87 and I know ford 2.7 and 3.5 ecoboost hp and torque ratings are based on 87 octane but will pick up more power on higher octane.

I actually have an adaptive tune on my ecoboost that claims it will run on 85 octane no problem.


The CRD is not a terribly complex vehicle. The numerous computerized control modules all attempting to work together is honestly the worst and most complex part of the CRD. The EGR is really more annoying than it is complex. The CRD was too old to receive the terrible DEF systems in use now, which was a huge bullet dodged. The motor itself is pretty basic and has no advanced controls such as variable valve timing. Most of the "expensive to maintain" problems on the CRD are due to Chrysler's penny pinching and lack of care for future value of their vehicles. This is a problem that FCA is in no hurry to resolve, and will likely make even worse. You're going to see more complex systems that are just as financially neglected as the CRD was in 2005 and 2006. The difference is these systems cost significantly more to maintain once the warranty on them has run out. A 48v lithium battery system for the electric assist? No thanks. A regenerative braking system designed by FCA? No thanks. Its not that these systems can't be implemented successfully, its just that I dont believe FCA is capable of implementing them successfully in a manner that will suit the long term benefit of the end user. These things are going to crash and burn (metaphorically) way harder than the CRD's did. They took unreliability and added a splash of complexity for good measure. I don't think this bodes well for the future of the Jeep lineup.

I, personally, will still be counting my pennies when the diesel wrangler comes out. I know it will have its own host of reliability problems, but at least they will likely be mitigated by a certain someone in Colorado who provides tuning options to mute "problematic" engine features. I won't be buying one first hand because I NEVER buy new cars...but after a few years when they start hitting the used market for reasonable prices I'll be looking.

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 Post subject: Re: Allegedly, a diesel in the new Gladiator
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:10 pm 
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The 3.0 EcoDiesel is not bad and best, GDE makes a tune with plenty options. Also, the zf transmission is pretty good. And GDE has tune option for transmission. This is for Ram/grand cherokee, but I'm sure won't take long to adapt it for the pickup jeep. I one though would think twice about diesel option, gasoline is cheaper an less costly to maintain. And I am a diesel fan... Next vehicle will be a gasser. Too much epa crap on diesels, even with gde tune. Cheaper and somehow proven is a standard gasoline engine (no electric assist, no turbo), like the pentastar. End rant.

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 Post subject: Re: Allegedly, a diesel in the new Gladiator
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:16 pm 
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APC9199 wrote:
mass-hole wrote:
APC9199 wrote:
I'm going to see if I can schedule a test drive with the assertion that I WILL NOT be buying. I am just curious to try the 2.0 Turbo out and see what it can do. Most reviews online say that it is noticeably quicker than the 3.6, but I would still never buy that thing. The amount and complexity of the extra components sounds like an absolute NIGHTMARE to maintain. Not to mention, you need to run higher octane fuel and an increased service interval for it. All in all I see it costing way more in the long run once parts start failing. It may be slightly cheaper to operate while its under warranty, but I bet it instantly loses its inherent value once FCA quits buying broken/failed parts for you.


More complex and expensive to maintain than a Jeep Liberty CRD lol?

I am sure I might be slightly more. The 91 octane is not a requirement, it can be run on 87 no problem but makes a little less power. Just had this discussion with a guy who bought a 2.0T Rubicon on the F150 eco boost forum. I think most GTDI’s will operate on 87 and I know ford 2.7 and 3.5 ecoboost hp and torque ratings are based on 87 octane but will pick up more power on higher octane.

I actually have an adaptive tune on my ecoboost that claims it will run on 85 octane no problem.


The CRD is not a terribly complex vehicle. The numerous computerized control modules all attempting to work together is honestly the worst and most complex part of the CRD. The EGR is really more annoying than it is complex. The CRD was too old to receive the terrible DEF systems in use now, which was a huge bullet dodged. The motor itself is pretty basic and has no advanced controls such as variable valve timing. Most of the "expensive to maintain" problems on the CRD are due to Chrysler's penny pinching and lack of care for future value of their vehicles. This is a problem that FCA is in no hurry to resolve, and will likely make even worse. You're going to see more complex systems that are just as financially neglected as the CRD was in 2005 and 2006. The difference is these systems cost significantly more to maintain once the warranty on them has run out. A 48v lithium battery system for the electric assist? No thanks. A regenerative braking system designed by FCA? No thanks. Its not that these systems can't be implemented successfully, its just that I dont believe FCA is capable of implementing them successfully in a manner that will suit the long term benefit of the end user. These things are going to crash and burn (metaphorically) way harder than the CRD's did. They took unreliability and added a splash of complexity for good measure. I don't think this bodes well for the future of the Jeep lineup.

I, personally, will still be counting my pennies when the diesel wrangler comes out. I know it will have its own host of reliability problems, but at least they will likely be mitigated by a certain someone in Colorado who provides tuning options to mute "problematic" engine features. I won't be buying one first hand because I NEVER buy new cars...but after a few years when they start hitting the used market for reasonable prices I'll be looking.
Very well said. Complexity and novelty is risky. Main issue with new. diesels is the epa stuff. Once tuned (for ex the crd and EcoDiesels) they are much more reliable. On the EcoDiesel forum most GDE tuned rams are trouble free. On the other hand, even if torque is not as good, I'd get a conventional gasser rather than a new diesel.

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 Post subject: Re: Allegedly, a diesel in the new Gladiator
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:02 pm 
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APC9199 wrote:
mass-hole wrote:
APC9199 wrote:
I'm going to see if I can schedule a test drive with the assertion that I WILL NOT be buying. I am just curious to try the 2.0 Turbo out and see what it can do. Most reviews online say that it is noticeably quicker than the 3.6, but I would still never buy that thing. The amount and complexity of the extra components sounds like an absolute NIGHTMARE to maintain. Not to mention, you need to run higher octane fuel and an increased service interval for it. All in all I see it costing way more in the long run once parts start failing. It may be slightly cheaper to operate while its under warranty, but I bet it instantly loses its inherent value once FCA quits buying broken/failed parts for you.


More complex and expensive to maintain than a Jeep Liberty CRD lol?

I am sure I might be slightly more. The 91 octane is not a requirement, it can be run on 87 no problem but makes a little less power. Just had this discussion with a guy who bought a 2.0T Rubicon on the F150 eco boost forum. I think most GTDI’s will operate on 87 and I know ford 2.7 and 3.5 ecoboost hp and torque ratings are based on 87 octane but will pick up more power on higher octane.

I actually have an adaptive tune on my ecoboost that claims it will run on 85 octane no problem.


The CRD is not a terribly complex vehicle. The numerous computerized control modules all attempting to work together is honestly the worst and most complex part of the CRD. The EGR is really more annoying than it is complex. The CRD was too old to receive the terrible DEF systems in use now, which was a huge bullet dodged. The motor itself is pretty basic and has no advanced controls such as variable valve timing. Most of the "expensive to maintain" problems on the CRD are due to Chrysler's penny pinching and lack of care for future value of their vehicles. This is a problem that FCA is in no hurry to resolve, and will likely make even worse. You're going to see more complex systems that are just as financially neglected as the CRD was in 2005 and 2006. The difference is these systems cost significantly more to maintain once the warranty on them has run out. A 48v lithium battery system for the electric assist? No thanks. A regenerative braking system designed by FCA? No thanks. Its not that these systems can't be implemented successfully, its just that I dont believe FCA is capable of implementing them successfully in a manner that will suit the long term benefit of the end user. These things are going to crash and burn (metaphorically) way harder than the CRD's did. They took unreliability and added a splash of complexity for good measure. I don't think this bodes well for the future of the Jeep lineup.

I, personally, will still be counting my pennies when the diesel wrangler comes out. I know it will have its own host of reliability problems, but at least they will likely be mitigated by a certain someone in Colorado who provides tuning options to mute "problematic" engine features. I won't be buying one first hand because I NEVER buy new cars...but after a few years when they start hitting the used market for reasonable prices I'll be looking.


It was a joke. I dont think many here would find too many other cars that are more of a pain in the booty than our CRD's.

I guess we will see. Ram put all their eggs in the mild Hybrid basket on the new 1500. The V6 pentastar has it by default and it is optional on the Hemi, which is the only way to get its MPG ratings up to industry standard at this point.

I won't buy another diesel in anything less than an HD pickup, and even then maybe not. To many superior gasoline options at this point that its not worth the effort, upfront cost, or long term costs of dealing with them. Even our CRD's, which arent saddled with the modern emissions crap, don't save anyone any money over an equal gasser because of the half-assery that Jeep put into them.

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 Post subject: Re: Allegedly, a diesel in the new Gladiator
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:21 pm 
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Diesel, Gas, Electric, Hybrid, Hydrogen, etc. It makes no difference to me. Based on my experience I would not buy another FCA vehicle even at gunpoint


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 Post subject: Re: Allegedly, a diesel in the new Gladiator
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:40 pm 
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mass-hole wrote:
APC9199 wrote:
mass-hole wrote:
[quote="APC9199"]I'm going to see if I can schedule a test drive with the assertion that I WILL NOT be buying. I am just curious to try the 2.0 Turbo out and see what it can do. Most reviews online say that it is noticeably quicker than the 3.6, but I would still never buy that thing. The amount and complexity of the extra components sounds like an absolute NIGHTMARE to maintain. Not to mention, you need to run higher octane fuel and an increased service interval for it. All in all I see it costing way more in the long run once parts start failing. It may be slightly cheaper to operate while its under warranty, but I bet it instantly loses its inherent value once FCA quits buying broken/failed parts for you.


More complex and expensive to maintain than a Jeep Liberty CRD lol?

I am sure I might be slightly more. The 91 octane is not a requirement, it can be run on 87 no problem but makes a little less power. Just had this discussion with a guy who bought a 2.0T Rubicon on the F150 eco boost forum. I think most GTDI’s will operate on 87 and I know ford 2.7 and 3.5 ecoboost hp and torque ratings are based on 87 octane but will pick up more power on higher octane.

I actually have an adaptive tune on my ecoboost that claims it will run on 85 octane no problem.


The CRD is not a terribly complex vehicle. The numerous computerized control modules all attempting to work together is honestly the worst and most complex part of the CRD. The EGR is really more annoying than it is complex. The CRD was too old to receive the terrible DEF systems in use now, which was a huge bullet dodged. The motor itself is pretty basic and has no advanced controls such as variable valve timing. Most of the "expensive to maintain" problems on the CRD are due to Chrysler's penny pinching and lack of care for future value of their vehicles. This is a problem that FCA is in no hurry to resolve, and will likely make even worse. You're going to see more complex systems that are just as financially neglected as the CRD was in 2005 and 2006. The difference is these systems cost significantly more to maintain once the warranty on them has run out. A 48v lithium battery system for the electric assist? No thanks. A regenerative braking system designed by FCA? No thanks. Its not that these systems can't be implemented successfully, its just that I dont believe FCA is capable of implementing them successfully in a manner that will suit the long term benefit of the end user. These things are going to crash and burn (metaphorically) way harder than the CRD's did. They took unreliability and added a splash of complexity for good measure. I don't think this bodes well for the future of the Jeep lineup.

I, personally, will still be counting my pennies when the diesel wrangler comes out. I know it will have its own host of reliability problems, but at least they will likely be mitigated by a certain someone in Colorado who provides tuning options to mute "problematic" engine features. I won't be buying one first hand because I NEVER buy new cars...but after a few years when they start hitting the used market for reasonable prices I'll be looking.


It was a joke. I dont think many here would find too many other cars that are more of a pain in the booty than our CRD's.

I guess we will see. Ram put all their eggs in the mild Hybrid basket on the new 1500. The V6 pentastar has it by default and it is optional on the Hemi, which is the only way to get its MPG ratings up to industry standard at this point.

I won't buy another diesel in anything less than an HD pickup, and even then maybe not. To many superior gasoline options at this point that its not worth the effort, upfront cost, or long term costs of dealing with them. Even our CRD's, which arent saddled with the modern emissions crap, don't save anyone any money over an equal gasser because of the half-assery that Jeep put into them.[/quote]Wouldn't say a joke, but plagued with cheap shortcuts that made the owner spend more to maintain and fix it than most vehicles (torque converter, soot, fuel issue - air, fuel filter leaks, etc). These aren't issues a vehicle should have prior to 150k.

All manufacturers have issues. The v8 from GM have issues with seized valves caused by cyl deactivation - less than 20k and my friend had engine replaced after gm tried to blame him for the failure, internet full of similar issues. Ecoboost has sludge issues from ccv, ram hemi breaking exhausted studs. Not sure how Toyota is, other than having very thirsty engines. New wranglers are as solid as an empty beer can...

So all of them have problems. As new buyers, we need due diligence to research and know what we buy, and get ready to mitigate issues on our own, or live with them...

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2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.


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 Post subject: Allegedly, a diesel in the new Gladiator
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:52 pm 
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thermorex wrote:
Wouldn't say a joke, but plagued with cheap shortcuts that made the owner spend more to maintain and fix it than most vehicles (torque converter, soot, fuel issue - air, fuel filter leaks, etc). These aren't issues a vehicle should have prior to 150k.

All manufacturers have issues. The v8 from GM have issues with seized valves caused by cyl deactivation - less than 20k and my friend had engine replaced after gm tried to blame him for the failure, internet full of similar issues. Ecoboost has sludge issues from ccv, ram hemi breaking exhausted studs. Not sure how Toyota is, other than having very thirsty engines. New wranglers are as solid as an empty beer can...

So all of them have problems. As new buyers, we need due diligence to research and know what we buy, and get ready to mitigate issues on our own, or live with them...


I meant my post was a joke, kinda.

And you are forgetting the head gasket, rocker arm, and valve stem issues that seem to claim a CRD every couple of days. All I am saying is that I find it funny that someone could own one of these and then complain about any other vehicles longevity or maintenance.

The f150 ecoboost took care of the sludge in the intercooler issue within a couple of years. By 2014(my year) it was a non issue. Since 2017 they have added port injection along with the direct injection so valve coking is a non-issue. Not sure that it actually ever was a real issue in the first place.

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2006 CRD - GTB2056 turbo by Dieselguy86, Eco Trans Tune, Lift Pump, Week's, HDS Tstat, Racor Filter, ARP's, OME 790's+Top Plate, JBA 2.5", JBA UCA, Moab's+265/75R16, ARB Bull Bar, 4.10's, TrueTracs


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