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 Post subject: post intercooler boost hose ... Again
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:26 pm 
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OK So I've had my CRD since buying used from the dealer in 2012 at like 60k miles. Now it has about 170k and I did the timing belt at about 110k. Replaced turbo at about 130k. Hoping to get another 60k or so miles out of it ...

In 2014 I replaced the stock rubber boost hoses with some from mishimoto. These seemed to last about 2 years, then in 2016 they started popping off again so I ordered replacement hoses from IDParts. These also had the nicer t-clamps as a kit, much more solid. Still at the end of 2018 the hose popped off. I've been putting it back on with about regularity of like once a week now.

Is it possible that the hoses heat, fatigue and stretch at the EGR valve after about two years? Am I the only one seeing this? I review posts on this forum and it seems like people go 100k miles plus with the samco hoses. Why do the mishimoto/IDParts hoses fail on me? Or perhaps it is the clamps? The T-clamps I got last time with ID Parts looked burley. MAybe I am not torquing the clamps enough, or too much, or not getting them up on the hose barb enough? I get them to work for like 2 years reliably and then they fail. I wa resigned to replacing the rubber turbo hose every 2 years or so (this failure broke my turbo) but I thought the silicone boost hoses were supposed to be a more or less lifetime fix.


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 Post subject: Re: post intercooler boost hose ... Again
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:50 pm 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
Regarding the problem
If the clamps are not tightened enough, the oil mist from the CCV can work it's way between the hose and barb surfaces.
Regarding possible solutions
- clean the surfaces with alcohol or mild solvent, both inside the hose and around the barb that it connects to. Let dry completely.
- use a strong hold hair spray on the barb and inside the hose when you install. tighten well with the T Clamps. I've heard of some using the spray contact glue commonly used for headliner fabric and such. I haven't used that, as I imagine, there could be glue residue buildup on the hard parts.
or
get the Samco hoses that IDParts now sells. https://www.idparts.com/samco-silicone-intercooler-hose-kit-liberty-crd-p-3207.html

I've had no problems with the former IDParts hoses, but Samco hoses are a significant step up.

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 Post subject: Re: post intercooler boost hose ... Again
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:05 pm 
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Popping off has nothing to do with hose age rather it relates to tightness and type of clamp and oil. Take hoses off; clean ALL the oil off each hose interior AND where the hoses fit; use over the counter hair spray to provide a bit of "tack" where the hoses fit on; replace clamps. On the clamps use "T" clamps which can be cranked down pretty hard at the turbo and FCV metal ends but not so hard on the intercooler plastic ends. On those both ends try to be sure the clamp are NOT on the fitting ridge but rather just past the ridge for best holding.

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 Post subject: Re: post intercooler boost hose ... Again
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:28 pm 
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OK so the way to think about it is not the that EGR Valve end is over heating or stretching but that 2 years is about how long it takes for oil mist to work its way into the barb-hose interface enough to allow slippage. It's like clockwork that I develop this problem after 2 years. I never did the oil mist trap as I am not sure it is a good idea one way or the other. But I do firmware delete the EGR.

Anyway I went ahead and ordered the hoses - samco this time - and it comes with new tee-clamps. I will follow the advice to clean well and use some hair spray for tack when I get to replacing it.


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 Post subject: Re: post intercooler boost hose ... Again
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:18 pm 
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Install a Provent to reduce the oil mist.

And make your own tubes.

Image

No fancy T clamps. Just standard worn clamps.
I’ve pushed as much as 28 psi through them and they don’t move.

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 Post subject: Re: post intercooler boost hose ... Again
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:24 pm 
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its1louder wrote:
OK so the way to think about it is not the that EGR Valve end is over heating or stretching but that 2 years is about how long it takes for oil mist to work its way into the barb-hose interface enough to allow slippage. It's like clockwork that I develop this problem after 2 years. I never did the oil mist trap as I am not sure it is a good idea one way or the other. But I do firmware delete the EGR.
Anyway I went ahead and ordered the hoses - samco this time - and it comes with new tee-clamps. I will follow the advice to clean well and use some hair spray for tack when I get to replacing it.

Other option is spray HI-Tack adhesive to make sure the hoses stay in place.... Lots of diesel racers use this stuff to ensure their boost hoses stay put when running 40+ boost pressure.
No firmware will totally eliminate EGR leakby, only an EGR block off plate or Weeks elbow kit can totally ensure their is NO EGR feed into the engine.
As others suggested and is highly recommended by many members on this forum, install a ProVent filter to totally eliminate the oil carryover from the CCV into the boost hoses and charge air cooler.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: post intercooler boost hose ... Again
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:42 pm 
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Quote:
As others suggested and is highly recommended by many members on this forum, install a ProVent filter to totally eliminate the oil carryover from the CCV into the boost hoses and charge air cooler.


I thought a read a series of posts here a year or so ago where folks were rethinking this ccv oil mist filtering thing. The idea was that the elephant trunk or whatever was bad for the engine, like maybe the oil crankcase mist was performing some important lubricating job.

So the thing just pops off instantly now, no matter what. I just took all the wires out of the way, cleaned both ends inside and out thoroughly with my favorite degreaser (orange oil) and then cleaned the degreaser residue off with alcohol. Then I did the same with the clamp. All parts feel slightly tacky now as they are totally cleaned of all oils and such. Then I put it back on and tightened it up again. The tee-clamp did slip down the EGR nipple a little bit but seems to be on the nipple fully all the way around.

Hopefully this will last until the new hoses come tomorrow. These are the Samco hoses which hopefully are slightly better quality for what that is worth (doesn't seem to be my problem, but I ordered them so ...). Then when I take the old hoses out I will do the thorough degrease and alcohol rinse clean again. Then before assembly I'll put the high tack spray adhesive on the inside of the hose that mates the EGR. Then I will slip it on, let it dry, then come back and torque down the teeclamp. Hopefully this will end my problems ...


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 Post subject: Re: post intercooler boost hose ... Again
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:48 pm 
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flash7210, those boost pipes look cool. not sure it solves my problem though, this actually doubles the number of silicone hose clamp matings. Not sure I won't still have the hose pop off at the EGR even if the hose is a shorter link to an intermediate pipe.


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 Post subject: Re: post intercooler boost hose ... Again
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:29 pm 
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Just to clarify all internal combustion engine have pressure in the crankcase, from minor leaks past piston rings I assume. All crankcases have stirred up oil hence pressurized oily mist. That pressure has to go somewhere otherwise you blow crankcase seals. Back in the "good" old days that pressure/oily mist was simply vented to atmosphere by something like the elephant hose mod where it resulted in lovely air pollution and lots of nice oil on roads to run into adjacent waterbodies. In the early to mid 1960s one of the first pollution prevention steps was to do away with the EHM like solution and route the pressure and oily mist back into the intake thru a PCV or CCV (on non-turbo engines it typically as dumped into the air filter housing just before the intake) so it could be burned in the engine. That mist never served a lube function.

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 Post subject: Re: post intercooler boost hose ... Again
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:12 pm 
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well this thing just pops off all the time now, no matter what. My new samco hoses and tee clamps come Monday, so I'll try those next. Hopefully, it is a problem with the idparts hose and this problem gets solved then. Past experience is that replacing the hose is good for two years. I am going to go ahead and order the sasquatch provent kit to hopefully boost the life time of this hose set.

So this morning I took it out and swapped the clamp from the intercooler side to the EGR side, to test the idea that the EGR side boost hose clamp was fatigued or something. I also completely removed the hose and washed it inside and out with degreaser/soapy water, and then rinsed the soapy residue off with alcohol. once that dried i put a little of the high tack glue on the egr side and attached that, then the intercooler side.

It still popped off.

Another fun thing that happened is that when I removed the hose I took all the nearby wires out of the way and pulled the neg cable from the battery post. somehow the alternator hot line bumped against the oil dipstick and a tremendous arc welding event ensued. I thought disconnecting the neg side was enough but maybe it shorted against a firewall or something? The yellow ring caught on fire and the dipstick tube got red hot and sent sparks flying. The dipstick welded permanently to the inside of the dipstick tube. Still drives but the dipstick is not a usable part now and I feel like I'll need that when oil change time comes in about 2kmiles. I took it to the shop and they said that they would have to remove the EGR and get some hard to source parts, $700 total (4 hours labor). So not properly covering up the alternator and neg terminal lugs was an expensive mistake. :banghead:


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 Post subject: Re: post intercooler boost hose ... Again
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:47 pm 
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Search around to see if you can find a replacement dipstick WITH dipstick tube.
Maybe somebody here has some left over parts and can sell you one?

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 Post subject: Re: post intercooler boost hose ... Again
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:51 am 
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Find a dipstick in the junk yard or on Ebay. Heat the tube up with a torch and yank the old dipstick out when its hot. Run a pipe cleaner down the tube if you need to to clean out any left over crud. Flush the oil and you should be good to go without having to change the whole dang tube out.

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 Post subject: Re: post intercooler boost hose ... Again
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:08 pm 
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if there are any arc holes in the dipstick tube you can use a heat-shrink sleeve section as a fix.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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 Post subject: Re: post intercooler boost hose ... Again
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:44 pm 
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thanks for all the replies. It really helps to be able to rely on this community for help with this vehicle that I love but takes so much work (and aftermarket spending) to keep it running.

Yesterday I got the sasquatch provent kit as well as a new OEM turbo inlet hose and new samco hoses. I didn't strictly need a new turbo inlet hose, but I have gotten in the habit or replacing this part early and often since it failed on me a few years ago and chunks of rotten ruber fell in the turbo and killed it. I've had to replace the cac hoses every 2 years it looks like and replacing this $70 part too while I am at it seems like a good return on time spent as long as I am going to have the airbox out and doing all the provent and CAC hose related changes. Replacing the turbo after the failed inlet hose killed it took up a 3 day weekend and $1400 in new parts. It was satisfying to do a bigger job than I usually do wrenching on my jeep, but now that I've done it I don't feel the need to ever do it again.

So changing the CAC hoses, turbo inlet and installing the provent kit went really fast and easy since these parts all get in each other's way. Doing it all at the same time made sense. When I got the CAC post cooler hose out and looked at it next to the samco, I could see that it looked really bulge-y. I think it just couldn't contain the boost any more, it was stretched out. I could never get it to clamp down on the FCV nozzle without sliding off. The samco went on much tighter and when I clamped it hard the clamp stayed up on the nozzle instead of squeezing off. Hopefully the samco hose is a better hose and also the addition of the provent filter keeps it from getting oiled up and slick. Maybe I can make last it longer than 2 years this time.

Driving around last night and this morning, I pushed it hard on starts to try to get the boost up. I fired up Torque PRo with my obdii bluetooth dongle and recorded boosts up as high as 22.5psi a couple times. Most regular city driving (with overdrive turned off) seems to see 1-15 psi with my current tune. anyway, it seems to have fixed it for now. Next I have to fix that dumb dipstick.

After seeing the bulged out sections of the old CAC hoses, I am sort of interested in trying to bend my own stainless tubes like flash7210 did. I feel like this might help with turbolag a bit? I remember thinking this was becoming noticeably worse a few months ago and I thought maybe I had an intercooler crack or something. Maybe it was just the tired out CAC hose had developed an aneurysm? I don't feel like I noticed lag this morning but its hard to say. Anyway at the risk of hijacking my own thread I am curious about mods that might relate to turbo-lag.


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 Post subject: Re: post intercooler boost hose ... Again
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:33 pm 
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its1louder wrote:
thanks for all the replies. It really helps to be able to rely on this community for help with this vehicle that I love but takes so much work (and aftermarket spending) to keep it running.

Yesterday I got the sasquatch provent kit as well as a new OEM turbo inlet hose and new samco hoses. I didn't strictly need a new turbo inlet hose, but I have gotten in the habit or replacing this part early and often since it failed on me a few years ago and chunks of rotten ruber fell in the turbo and killed it. I've had to replace the cac hoses every 2 years it looks like and replacing this $70 part too while I am at it seems like a good return on time spent as long as I am going to have the airbox out and doing all the provent and CAC hose related changes. Replacing the turbo after the failed inlet hose killed it took up a 3 day weekend and $1400 in new parts. It was satisfying to do a bigger job than I usually do wrenching on my jeep, but now that I've done it I don't feel the need to ever do it again.

So changing the CAC hoses, turbo inlet and installing the provent kit went really fast and easy since these parts all get in each other's way. Doing it all at the same time made sense. When I got the CAC post cooler hose out and looked at it next to the samco, I could see that it looked really bulge-y. I think it just couldn't contain the boost any more, it was stretched out. I could never get it to clamp down on the FCV nozzle without sliding off. The samco went on much tighter and when I clamped it hard the clamp stayed up on the nozzle instead of squeezing off. Hopefully the samco hose is a better hose and also the addition of the provent filter keeps it from getting oiled up and slick. Maybe I can make last it longer than 2 years this time.

Driving around last night and this morning, I pushed it hard on starts to try to get the boost up. I fired up Torque PRo with my obdii bluetooth dongle and recorded boosts up as high as 22.5psi a couple times. Most regular city driving (with overdrive turned off) seems to see 1-15 psi with my current tune. anyway, it seems to have fixed it for now. Next I have to fix that dumb dipstick.

After seeing the bulged out sections of the old CAC hoses, I am sort of interested in trying to bend my own stainless tubes like flash7210 did. I feel like this might help with turbolag a bit? I remember thinking this was becoming noticeably worse a few months ago and I thought maybe I had an intercooler crack or something. Maybe it was just the tired out CAC hose had developed an aneurysm? I don't feel like I noticed lag this morning but its hard to say. Anyway at the risk of hijacking my own thread I am curious about mods that might relate to turbo-lag.

Seriously consider the Weeks Elbow Kit from Sasquatch, it is a super good mod and will get rid of the FCV & all that EGR crap. :D

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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