LOST JEEPS :: View topic - TC Stall Speeds

^^^^^^^
AS indicated above, even with internal specs being identical, tunes can make substantial changes in "stall" speeds.
The tunes will be your difference between the Mopar torque converters.

To condense an awful lot of messing around..

2006 2.8, 130k+miles on original short block and injectors, new full head, new Sasquatch Turbo, Old style Weeks elbow 1&2, in-tank pump, CAT delete, muffler listed in my sig.
Measured by sight, dash tach., trans at operating temp.

With original OEM torque converter
Stock Tune, roughly 2100 rpm stall
With Very hot Yeti commercial (not free) tune, just over 2300 rpm.

With 5.7L HEMI torque converter
Stock Tune, just under 2100 rpm stall
With Very hot Yeti commercial (not free) tune, 2300ish rpm.
NOTE: OEM tc had over 130k miles. Hemi tc had 67k miles. The small difference could be due to less wear.

With NEW PATC Custom Billet torque converter, 1500rpm spec. stall

Stock Tune, just over 1600 rpm stall
With Very hot Yeti commercial (not free) tune ~1825rpm stall
(This configuration, ESP off, and careful brake application, can produce sustained rear tire smoke even after 1-2 shift :BANANA:

I love the Coopers, though, so've only done this ...twice. :juggle:

)

Author:	synthetic-oil [ Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:42 am ]
Post subject:	TC Stall Speeds
OK I know this info is on here somewhere, just haven't found it. What is the stall for the stock TC as shipped from factory and what is the stall on the Euro TC. Thanks

Author:	GreenDieselEngineering [ Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TC Stall Speeds
Both converters have the same k-factor and multiplication ratio, thus same stall rpm for a given power output. The difference is the spring capacity in the lock-up clutch.

Author:	GordnadoCRD [ Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TC Stall Speeds
^^^^^^^ AS indicated above, even with internal specs being identical, tunes can make substantial changes in "stall" speeds. The tunes will be your difference between the Mopar torque converters. To condense an awful lot of messing around.. 2006 2.8, 130k+miles on original short block and injectors, new full head, new Sasquatch Turbo, Old style Weeks elbow 1&2, in-tank pump, CAT delete, muffler listed in my sig. Measured by sight, dash tach., trans at operating temp. With original OEM torque converter Stock Tune, roughly 2100 rpm stall With Very hot Yeti commercial (not free) tune, just over 2300 rpm. With 5.7L HEMI torque converter Stock Tune, just under 2100 rpm stall With Very hot Yeti commercial (not free) tune, 2300ish rpm. NOTE: OEM tc had over 130k miles. Hemi tc had 67k miles. The small difference could be due to less wear. With NEW PATC Custom Billet torque converter, 1500rpm spec. stall Stock Tune, just over 1600 rpm stall With Very hot Yeti commercial (not free) tune ~1825rpm stall (This configuration, ESP off, and careful brake application, can produce sustained rear tire smoke even after 1-2 shift I love the Coopers, though, so've only done this ...twice. )

Author:	snowballs [ Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TC Stall Speeds
Stock Tune, just over 1600 rpm stall With Very hot Yeti commercial (not free) tune ~1825rpm stall (This configuration, ESP off, and careful brake application, can produce sustained rear tire smoke even after 1-2 shift I love the Coopers, though, so've only done this ...twice. )[/quote] Maybe .... three times?

Author:	Mountainman [ Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TC Stall Speeds
GordnadoCRD wrote: ^^^^^^^ AS indicated above, even with internal specs being identical, tunes can make substantial changes in "stall" speeds. The tunes will be your difference between the Mopar torque converters. To condense an awful lot of messing around.. 2006 2.8, 130k+miles on original short block and injectors, new full head, new Sasquatch Turbo, Old style Weeks elbow 1&2, in-tank pump, CAT delete, muffler listed in my sig. Measured by sight, dash tach., trans at operating temp. With original OEM torque converter Stock Tune, roughly 2100 rpm stall With Very hot Yeti commercial (not free) tune, just over 2300 rpm. With 5.7L HEMI torque converter Stock Tune, just under 2100 rpm stall With Very hot Yeti commercial (not free) tune, 2300ish rpm. NOTE: OEM tc had over 130k miles. Hemi tc had 67k miles. The small difference could be due to less wear. With NEW PATC Custom Billet torque converter, 1500rpm spec. stall Stock Tune, just over 1600 rpm stall With Very hot Yeti commercial (not free) tune ~1825rpm stall (This configuration, ESP off, and careful brake application, can produce sustained rear tire smoke even after 1-2 shift I love the Coopers, though, so've only done this ...twice. ) Hows that compare to the Suncoast?

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Author:	synthetic-oil [ Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TC Stall Speeds
Suncoast is 1900

Author:	My66dodge [ Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TC Stall Speeds
How much was the cost for the 1500rpm stall converter

Author:	GordnadoCRD [ Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TC Stall Speeds
My66dodge wrote: How much was the cost for the 1500rpm stall converter $600. He didn't charge extra for the custom stall speed. IIRC shipping to Oregon was $35

Author:	My66dodge [ Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TC Stall Speeds
I will have to return call to precision converters Of new Hampshire, I have used their rv stall converter and it handles the power and is 300rpm below factory but I know they build anything and they build for a lot of oem and aftermarket, the 5450LSRV for our jeep is about $200, they also have a billet version for $550

Author:	geordi [ Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TC Stall Speeds
My66dodge wrote: I will have to return call to precision converters Of new Hampshire, I have used their rv stall converter and it handles the power and is 300rpm below factory but I know they build anything and they build for a lot of oem and aftermarket, the 5450LSRV for our jeep is about $200, they also have a billet version for $550 That is a GREAT price for a custom converter, Florida Torque Converters wants $550 for a low stall - billet is another $100. I see no reason to go billet.

Author:	Mountainman [ Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TC Stall Speeds
With the lower stall, the engine will have a little more load at idle right? I'd look forward to more heat production for my winter adventures where I just can't produce enough waste heat at idle. If yes, there would also be a little more fueling as well? Looks like I'll have a used suncoast for sale in the near future

Author:	GordnadoCRD [ Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TC Stall Speeds
Still shudders with new pump?

Author:	Mountainman [ Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TC Stall Speeds
GordnadoCRD wrote: Still shudders with new pump? Been a rough year and haven't got the new pump in yet, but I'm very much interested in the lower stall. Should save me some fuel offroad, and hopefully warm the engine a bit faster?

Author:	geordi [ Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TC Stall Speeds
That's not how stall speed works. At idle the engine is still at idle, the converter isn't doing much of anything. Stall speed is the point where ALL the fluid pressure is being converted, no more pressure should be created beyond that point, but all the energy is being transferred to the transmission. That's why on higher power (hot tunes) the stall moves up, the converter has to spin faster to convert all the energy. This is why you can move at less than stall RPM, but you really feel the power come on at this RPM and above. With the torque peak of this engine at 1800-1900, you potentially are missing some economy / pulling power by having the stall higher. It is also a function of input power, so if you do have a hot tune, the torque peak is being missed by pushing that stall higher - making heat instead of tire rotation. Whatever they change in the converter makes it more effective at low RPM, which lowers the stall speed.

Author:	Mountainman [ Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TC Stall Speeds
Ok thanks, I was mixing vane angle with stall. The more aggressive vane angle (hemi, suncoast) will pull more at idle (maybe fuel a little more at idle do to more load?). Wow, the mention of heat just turned on a lightbulb in my mind. The long slow grind up huge offroad grades (like 10 miles that takes 45 minutes) is causing me overheating problems, even in cool weather. Less slip (lower stall) should help a little eh? The V6 guys might find this helpful also as they also have heat problems offroad, but I'm guessing the gasser wouldn't like any lower stall?

Author:	geordi [ Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TC Stall Speeds
It is possible that with a more aggressive vane angle (taking bigger / deeper "bites" of the fluid) that it might pull a bit harder at idle and load the engine a bit more. Certainly low speed climbing is going to be rough on the cooling system b/c the converter is doing nothing BUT slipping - but it isn't slipping as such, not like stepping on a clutch and trying to let the plates slide past each other and burn out all the clutch material. The converter is ALWAYS slipping except when it is locked in 4th or 5th gear. The way it was explained to me is that it is like two fans pointed at each other. One driven and one not. The driven fan "blows" the fluid at the receiver, which is forced to turn by the force of the fluid. The resistance to moving (load) creates a LOT of friction heat in the fluid. Low speed and high load definitely would factor in this, I'm not sure what the answer is other than a good fan and making sure the radiator is flowing well.

Author:	Mountainman [ Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TC Stall Speeds
TKB4 wrote: If you wanted more heat in cold why did you delete the viscous heater? ( doubt helps economy much). Also on equipped vehicles you can turn on both seat electric heaters on high and this will not only create heat but also put a little more load on engine via alternator and might warm up a little quicker. I deleted the VH for absolute simplicity/ reliability reasons. I drive in about 70 miles from the nearest town (remote Stanley idaho) to hunt, fish etc, and don't ever want to have to walk out. Now that I know the part number of the VH bearing, and have replaced a few, I am thinking about reinstalling the VH, but I've found getting them reassembled with the proper clutch spacing to be a bit of a challenge. I'll have to try harder... I'm also going to get the GDE high idle soon.

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Author:	My66dodge [ Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TC Stall Speeds
With New hampshire converter the low stall is the stock for the kj crd, the rv designation lowers the stall speed by 300rpm, my wife picked up some mpg with hers from it and the jeep pulls harder. When you are in there do the full trans go hd2 shift kit, it has the updates for the pump so you can update your existing pump with the springs so it is same or better than the updated pump. As a heads up autozone is a new Hampshire converter dealer. I went through a trans shop who was but found out directly from them that autozone was one also

Author:	TKB4 [ Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TC Stall Speeds
If you wanted more heat in cold why did you delete the viscous heater? ( doubt helps economy much). Also on equipped vehicles you can turn on both seat electric heaters on high and this will not only create heat but also put a little more load on engine via alternator and might warm up a little quicker.

Author:	WWDiesel [ Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TC Stall Speeds
My Suncoast on the CRD starts pulling as soon as it is placed in a motive gear. On level concrete as soon as I put it in drive, it starts moving if the brake is not applied. On my Dodge Cummins with the Suncoast, it is even more aggressive, placed in drive, it will idle at about 3 or 4 mph without even touching the go pedal. I certainly think that the lower the stall speed or more aggressive the torque transfer is by the fluid dynamics between the rotor/stator in the TC the less the fluid would be worked (slippage) so less heat would be generated as a result.