oil in coolant

ROKTAXI · **Posted:** Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:55 pm

I decided to change the coolant yesterday and I checked the fluid level today and found oil in the coolant tank. I did not flush the old coolant out as the old coolant had no signs of oil or other contaminants so I decided to just put the new coolant in.

A little history: I bought the Jeep 4 years ago that had a dealer-installed, new factory re-man engine due to a catastrophic engine failure: piston-to-block damage creating a lock-up condition from what I read. The engine had 40K miles when I bought it. Odo was 97K. It now has 136K on the clock. I have had NO issues with any aspect related to engine performance or anything indicating a possible engine problem.

My thoughts: The new fluid acted as a "flush" and circulated some of the old oil still lodged in the radiator and other passages from the past engine failure. This seems to be the most logical answer.

Question: Should I drain and flush the system and put new fluid back in? If so, should I just buy some generic radiator flush at the parts store? OR take the Jeep to a radiator shop and let them do it as they may be able to do a better job?

TKB4 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:02 pm

I am not totally clear on what you did to change the coolant. If you just drained the old coolant and then refilled without even running just distilled or tap water through it then you definitely did not get all the old coolant out but in my opinion that should not make any practical difference and you would not need to flush the radiator as flushes may do more harm than good if they are not needed.. I am also unclear as to the "oil" you see in the coolant. Is this in the coolant reservoir ?

First thing I would do is check the oil dipstick for moisture coolant etc. next, I would do the quick check for head gasket leak. With the engine cold remove the radiator cap then replace it and start and run the engine for about a minute. Then remove the radiator cap again if the reservoir is pressurized there is a leak into coolant usually the head gasket. if both these check out ok you could do a standard leak down test but I would just leave it as is and drive it a while and check antifreeze and oil levels and condition frequently for a while then spread out frequency if nothing out of ordinary after couple thousand miles it should be ok.

Billybob · **Posted:** Wed May 01, 2019 4:50 am

In 2007 my GF crashed my 2002 Export CRD into a tree.

When I picked up the Jeep from the Repair Shop the "Low Coolant" light was ON.
I got them to add about 4 Litres of water, drove it around the block and handed it back to the Repair Shop as it was running extremely badly and I told them that they obviously had run the Jeep without water and damaged the engine.

A year later after taking Legal action against them I was told to drop the case as it was their word against mine!

In the meantime I had the Dealers fix up the head etc. and they found oil in the coolant which they flushed out. However the plastic reservoir still had oil sticking to the inside walls which stayed there for some time until I removed the reservoir and gave it a good clean inside with degreaser and a high-pressure washer....been fine since then!

So if you have oil clinging to the inside of the plastic reservoir then maybe you need to give it a good clean and them monitor the situation for any further presence of oil!

ROKTAXI · **Posted:** Wed May 01, 2019 10:03 am

Billybob wrote:

........However the plastic reservoir still had oil sticking to the inside walls which stayed there for some time until I removed the reservoir and gave it a good clean inside with degreaser and a high-pressure washer....been fine since then!

So if you have oil clinging to the inside of the plastic reservoir then maybe you need to give it a good clean and them monitor the situation for any further presence of oil!

This seems to be the most logical thing to do at this time. It appears that the new coolant "cleaned" some of the oil residue left in the radiator and other components (and maybe even the new engine) due to the circulation of the oil residue over the last 4 years. No water is evident in the crankcase oil and no pressure in the coolant reservoir is further evidence that it may not be a head gasket leak. I don't doubt that the dealership DID NOT flush out the radiator. Who knows, the oil residue may have been a benefit in keeping a coating in some components (hoses, thermostat)? Anyway, I've run some radiator flush through and will refill after cleaning the reservoir and see what happens.

Thanks for your responses!

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed May 01, 2019 1:20 pm

Any residual oil left in the cooling system from a previous issue will always work itself to the highest point and collect which is the reservoir bottle since oil always floats to the top of water or coolant in this case.
A good cleaning and flushing should solve you issues.... but I would still keep an eye on the reservoir bottle for a while for any reaccumulation. Hopefully you will have none!

ROKTAXI · **Posted:** Wed May 01, 2019 4:32 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

Any residual oil left in the cooling system from a previous issue will always work itself to the highest point and collect which is the reservoir bottle since oil always floats to the top of water or coolant in this case.
A good cleaning and flushing should solve you issues.... but I would still keep an eye on the reservoir bottle for a while .....

Thanks for the input! So far, I have drained all the new coolant I put in yesterday and refilled with some Prestone Radiator Flush (using distilled h20). Ran errands. Drained and then filled it with distilled h20 only, ran errands (again), drained all again. Then added new coolant. Basically, it's had 3 drain cycles. I removed the res. tank and cleaned it out as well. So far it looks like most of the oil residue is gone.

In hind site, I wonder if I should have just taken the Jeep to a radiator shop and had it all flushed out?? Not sure how important it is to have had all that residue removed? All that oil has been there for about 5 years with no signs of any issues. There wasn't even any residue in the res. tank ..... until I changed the coolant.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed May 01, 2019 11:29 pm

ROKTAXI wrote:

WWDiesel wrote:

Any residual oil left in the cooling system from a previous issue will always work itself to the highest point and collect which is the reservoir bottle since oil always floats to the top of water or coolant in this case.
A good cleaning and flushing should solve you issues.... but I would still keep an eye on the reservoir bottle for a while .....

Thanks for the input! So far, I have drained all the new coolant I put in yesterday and refilled with some Prestone Radiator Flush (using distilled h20). Ran errands. Drained and then filled it with distilled h20 only, ran errands (again), drained all again. Then added new coolant. Basically, it's had 3 drain cycles. I removed the res. tank and cleaned it out as well. So far it looks like most of the oil residue is gone.

In hind site, I wonder if I should have just taken the Jeep to a radiator shop and had it all flushed out?? Not sure how important it is to have had all that residue removed? All that oil has been there for about 5 years with no signs of any issues. There wasn't even any residue in the res. tank ..... until I changed the coolant.

That is very strange indeed. Did you go to a different type of coolant than it previously had?
What coolant are you using now?

ROKTAXI · **Posted:** Thu May 02, 2019 9:15 am

WWDiesel wrote:

That is very strange indeed. Did you go to a different type of coolant than it previously had?
What coolant are you using now?

I don't have any history on what coolant it had when I bought it (4+ years ago). I'm assuming it was whatever the dealership put in with the new engine. I put in Zerox G 05, the OEM recommended coolant. I'm going on a 7-10 day trip in a couple weeks and will be monitoring the fluid closely. What's really odd is that NO evidence of oil in the coolant was present until I changed it. Leads me to believe that possibly it had the wrong coolant (yellowish / orange) to begin with. Back in the day (as they say) we use to add a little kerosene to the water for water pump lubrication. If I did that, it may clean it further but with todays metal alloys and coolants, I'm not doing it unless there's positive documentation.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu May 02, 2019 10:40 am

ROKTAXI wrote:

WWDiesel wrote:

That is very strange indeed. Did you go to a different type of coolant than it previously had?
What coolant are you using now?

I don't have any history on what coolant it had when I bought it (4+ years ago). I'm assuming it was whatever the dealership put in with the new engine. I put in Zerox G 05, the OEM recommended coolant. I'm going on a 7-10 day trip in a couple weeks and will be monitoring the fluid closely. What's really odd is that NO evidence of oil in the coolant was present until I changed it. Leads me to believe that possibly it had the wrong coolant (yellowish / orange) to begin with. Back in the day (as they say) we use to add a little kerosene to the water for water pump lubrication. If I did that, it may clean it further but with todays metal alloys and coolants, I'm not doing it unless there's positive documentation.

Don't use Kerosene, it does not mix with coolant!
You can purchase a water pump lubricate made for cooling systems at most of the big box auto parts stores. Your call on if it is really needed.
The only thing I have ever added to a diesel cooling system coolant is "Water Wetter" ... it is a good product.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu May 02, 2019 10:49 am

Zerex G-05 is the proper coolant. Who knows what the dealer put in, color is unfortunately not an accurate depiction of contents anymore for coolant.

You should be good to go with the Zerex G-05, that is an ELC (Extended life coolant) and as long as it is mostly clean, should be fine for the duration. Do not add anything else to the cooling system like kerosene. The coolant is designed as all the lubrication that the water pump needs.

Your timing belt system also has a 6 year age limit in addition to the 100k mile limit, just so you are aware of that. The coolant should be good for over 200k miles. Since this engine was a replacement, you need to recalculate the "problem areas" that will still likely happen - these are the normal numbers: Around 130k miles, the head bolts are known to weaken and allow the head gasket to leak. ARP studs are a cure IF installed BEFORE the first "low coolant" alarm happens. Anywhere from 150k to over 200k miles, the exhaust valves are known to fail randomly - severe engine damage is the result. Replacement before failure is the only known cure, I suggest any time the head needs to come off, replace the valves... OR between 150k and 175k miles for safety.

pulsenpal · **Joined:** Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:53 am **Posts:** 42

la belle indifference---an alternative method of dealing with crd
issues-
a variant related to rtf---run to failure

once you have done all you may reasonably do-- this mindset helps in living with the inevitable fission meltdown event lurking at that unknown milepost:)

Labelle indifference refers to a relative lack of concern about apparently severe and disabling symptoms---medical definition

ROKTAXI · **Posted:** Thu May 02, 2019 7:11 pm

pulsenpal & geordi:

Appreciate your comments. Especially pulsenpal

Living with this perverbial "time bomb" is getting more daunting every year. If I were of the mentality I had when I was in my 30's / 40's, I would not care so much about the wrenching and spending, which is an I-V ( cash) to keep it alive. AND it would be a challenge I once would look forward to!

Now in my 70's, my mind says ".... hell ya, I can still do it!", but my body and billfold says: WHOA!!!!

Maybe it's getting time to pass the batton to those who have the desire, time & money to keep pumping life into this albatross??

My delima is, I've spent much time and $$$$ to get it to be reliable. I have no concerns about going long distances and to very remote places and not worrying about what's going to break. I'm a preventetive maintenance kinda guy.... if ain't broke yet, FIX IT NOW.

So my decision will be, do I cut my losses NOW or wait until the imminent catastrophic event happens.

BUT, the ultimate question is what 4x4 do I buy? Obviously something that is fixable without looking all over the USA, EU or AUS for parts (and labor) that can be exorbitantly expensive.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu May 02, 2019 10:55 pm

geordi wrote:

these are the normal numbers: Around 130k miles, the head bolts are known to weaken and allow the head gasket to leak. ARP studs are a cure IF installed BEFORE the first "low coolant" alarm happens. Anywhere from 150k to over 200k miles, the exhaust valves are known to fail randomly - severe engine damage is the result. Replacement before failure is the only known cure, I suggest any time the head needs to come off, replace the valves... OR between 150k and 175k miles for safety.

Let's beat this old horse some more.
Normal or abnormal, that is the question. While most would agree it could happen at those mileage numbers you invoked, it can also just as well not take place.
Certainly don't want to scare the bejesus out of every KJ CRD owner.
We know there are some out there with over 200k and even a few over 300k that have never reported a head gasket leak or valve failure. (they are rare)
Guess we are all on borrowed time with these engines to a great extent, just knowing when and how to quantify failure is the real challenge.
So many extenuating circumstances and variables that can play into if or when a failure might occur.
Is replacing head bolts a good preemptive move if you pull the valve cover for anything else, certainly.
Is replacing the exhaust valves a good predictive move to guard against valve stem failure, certainly. But to pull the head just for this alone; is that a wise decision?

Metallurgy tests on some of the failed valves were not conclusive. Was it just a bad batch of valves that only affect a very few poor souls or does it affect all VM 2.8 CRD engines?
And if that is the case, how have some surpassed those mileage numbers by double digits and not had a failure?
Gosh we would all love to know the answers to that one including myself.

In my case, I am at 170k and never had any issues with head gasket leaking or overheating.
Do I need to plan on pulling the head, replacing the exhaust valves, and installing head studs in place of head bolts?
Or, is it time to sale and let someone else worry with all the decisions?
Or, do I just keep driving it and hope and pray it will make it to the 300k club without a failure........... :juggle:

Can someone tell me, I wish, but I think not. :banghead:

krb · **Posted:** Tue May 28, 2019 7:57 am

Clarification: Is it the actual exhaust valve that fails or the rocker fails causing the valve failure? Or either/both?

Edit - I just read in another thread that it’s probably heat that eventually takes out the exhaust valve so I guess I discovered the answer to my question.

ROKTAXI · **Posted:** Tue May 28, 2019 11:27 am

WWDiesel wrote:

geordi wrote:

.......
Or, is it time to sale and let someone else worry with all the decisions?
Or, do I just keep driving it and hope and pray it will make it to the 300k club without a failure........... :juggle:

Can someone tell me, I wish, but I think not. :banghead:

is
Those are exactly my thoughts. It's getting to the point of: Is my Jeep just getting ready for the bone pile? And the only value it has is for body & drive train parts.

With that said, I just returned from a 2K mile trip. Averaged 26+ mpg (bucking 25 - 40 mph head winds for 2 days) and it behaved flawlessly, except for a huge sand storm that pluged up my air inlet "pre-filter". It's a simple stainless steel coffee ground filter I retrofitted to the air inlet on my air box that keeps out the "big chunks" like bugs and such.

I'm now leaning toward to just keep driving it until the need to make a vehicle change due to engine or other costly catastrophic failure.

I put the current value of the Jeep somewhere around +/- $6K (?)

If a catostrophic engine failure should occure, I may be able to get $????

Decissions, decissions. :juggle:

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue May 28, 2019 12:44 pm

ROKTAXI wrote:

Those are exactly my thoughts. It's getting to the point of: Is my Jeep just getting ready for the bone pile? And the only value it has is for body & drive train parts.
With that said, I just returned from a 2K mile trip. Averaged 26+ mpg (bucking 25 - 40 mph head winds for 2 days) and it behaved flawlessly, except for a huge sand storm that pluged up my air inlet "pre-filter". It's a simple stainless steel coffee ground filter I retrofitted to the air inlet on my air box that keeps out the "big chunks" like bugs and such.
I'm now leaning toward to just keep driving it until the need to make a vehicle change due to engine or other costly catastrophic failure.
I put the current value of the Jeep somewhere around +/- $6K (?)
If a catostrophic engine failure should occure, I may be able to get $????
Decissions, decissions. :juggle:

At least I have a spare engine if anything happens to current one before next timing belt due or I sale or trade it for a newer vehicle....

ROKTAXI · **Posted:** Tue May 28, 2019 2:11 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

ROKTAXI wrote:

At least I have a spare engine if anything happens to current one before next timing belt due or I sale or trade it for a newer vehicle....

Sounds like you have at least covered some of the bases.

I haven't persued a spare engine. At this point, I don't think I'm in love with my Jeep that much, but I'm certainly warming up to that idea, considering the cost of getting a newer Jeep.

I'm putting a lot of emphesis on less electronics and also pre-2006 vehicles. But getting one of that vintage gets me right back to continual parts replacement. At least with my Libby, I know it inside-out.

So I guess I'm answering my own questions. :BINGO:

flash7210 · **Posted:** Tue May 28, 2019 2:30 pm

Quote:

I'm putting a lot of emphasis on less electronics and also pre-2006 vehicles

I'm looking for a 95-96 F150. Standard cab, short bed, and 2wd.
Don't even care about the engine and trans, I've got a carbureted 351W and C4 that will fit nicely :wink:

oil in coolant

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