Waterless coolant

PZKW108 · **Joined:** Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:23 pm **Posts:** 461

Anybody here use waterless coolant in the CRD , could it replace HOAT ?

layback40 · **Posted:** Wed May 29, 2019 12:09 am

Its viscosity is too high & its heat capacity is too low. Both Chrysler & VM recommend not using it.

PZKW108 · **Joined:** Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:23 pm **Posts:** 461

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Do you have a link about this ?

My66dodge · **Posted:** Wed May 29, 2019 9:59 pm

HOAT is the BEST. OAT eats gaskets if left too long and the green doo doo needs to be replaced every other year. At my shop we sell lots of G05 zerex coolant, it is HOAT and low silicate wich is a must to avoid plugging the oil cooler, and egr cooler on other rigs. Another I like is the Honda blue from pentafrost, it is a nice color and it is an HOAT and it turns green when it breaks down chemically, plus it's low silicate and it leaves a blue trail when there is a leak to see. I use the Honda blue in my 5 just cause I like the color but the G05 is one of the best coolants out there.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Wed May 29, 2019 11:48 pm

Waterless can replace any kind, but you have to be super careful to get all coolant and all water removed before adding the waterless.

I haven't used it in the CRD yet, but it should be fine unless you pop a leak out on a trail and some helpful monkey puts water in it.

It's on my to do list, but not there yet.

https://www.evanscoolant.com/how-it-works/

PZKW108 · **Joined:** Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:23 pm **Posts:** 461

GordnadoCRD wrote:

Waterless can replace any kind, but you have to be super careful to get all coolant and all water removed before adding the waterless.

I haven't used it in the CRD yet, but it should be fine unless you pop a leak out on a trail and some helpful monkey puts water in it.

It's on my to do list, but not there yet.

https://www.evanscoolant.com/how-it-works/

I didn't know it can replace any type of coolant ?

I know a guy who use it in a heavily modified Cat C15 and he told me he doesn't blow head gasket anymore since he went waterless and I should try in my Jeep.....

I can wait to have feed back from you Gord !

thanks

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Fri May 31, 2019 2:38 am

The boil point is way high, like over 400F. so there is no tendency to get hot spots in areas of low flow, where the steam pressure of normal coolant keeps coolant from doing it's job.

Because of this there is no need to pressurize the system to increase boil point of normal coolants.

It is not reactive to metals, so prevents corrosion better than any water blended coolants.

It is not toxic so if your pet happens to sample it when you have drained it it won't kill them.

downsides

it's expensive

Water kills it until it's evaporated out.

PZKW108 · **Joined:** Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:23 pm **Posts:** 461

GordnadoCRD wrote:

The boil point is way high, like over 400F. so there is no tendency to get hot spots in areas of low flow, where the steam pressure of normal coolant keeps coolant from doing it's job.

Because of this there is no need to pressurize the system to increase boil point of normal coolants.

It is not reactive to metals, so prevents corrosion better than any water blended coolants.

It is not toxic so if your pet happens to sample it when you have drained it it won't kill them.

downsides

it's expensive

Water kills it until it's evaporated out.

Basically the absence of water raise the overheating point.
because you don't have water steaming in the head causing hot spot and boil over.

That's what people don't understand, it doesn't make your engine runs cooler , it makes it run hotter and provide good protection at temp that the regular coolant can't !
What's going to warped your head is not because your coolant hits let say 240F , it's the hot spots at 500F created by steam pocket due to water.

TKB4 · **Posted:** Fri May 31, 2019 3:58 pm

I am glad this was posted , I never knew it existed. Seems like a really good option other than expense.

gollygeemister · **Posted:** Fri May 31, 2019 11:02 pm

Our owner's manual specifically prohibits propylene glycol based coolants. I had never seen that in an owner's manual before so I took it to heart, not to use evan's, etc.

TKB4 · **Posted:** Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:50 am

Yes, but I believe that would be for water based coolant. As I stated earlier I didn't even know waterless existed so I would definitely do my research before I would try it but from general properties it seems to be excellent choice. I doubt the propylene glycol itself interacts with the gaskets etc.

Our FSM has been proven to have many flaws although I am sure this was not one of them, but this is a whole different technology.

PZKW108 · **Joined:** Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:23 pm **Posts:** 461

Another good point

No water no cavitation !

layback40 · **Posted:** Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:17 pm

gollygeemister wrote:

Our owner's manual specifically prohibits propylene glycol based coolants. I had never seen that in an owner's manual before so I took it to heart, not to use evan's, etc.

Totally agree!
Every one talking this stuff up have not used it.
When VM & Jeep say its ok then try it.
Its propylene glycol based.
Its not new, Evans coolant has been around for decades long before our CRD's. It was originally designed for dragsters, not production cars.
When several people post who have used it for 100k miles in a VM, we should listen.
All we have so far is internet jocks reading marketing hype & regurgitating it on this thread.

PZKW108 · **Joined:** Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:23 pm **Posts:** 461

layback40 wrote:

gollygeemister wrote:

Our owner's manual specifically prohibits propylene glycol based coolants. I had never seen that in an owner's manual before so I took it to heart, not to use evan's, etc.

Totally agree!
Every one talking this stuff up have not used it.
When VM & Jeep say its ok then try it.
Its propylene glycol based.
Its not new, Evans coolant has been around for decades long before our CRD's. It was originally designed for dragsters, not production cars.
When several people post who have used it for 100k miles in a VM, we should listen.
All we have so far is internet jocks reading & regurgitating it on this thread.

Just one thing, where did you see VM says not to use propylene glocol based coolant ?

I don't care much about what Chrysler have to say about that engine because they don't seem to know much about it..........

The intend of this post is to figure out if waterless coolant can do some bad to this engine or if it's fine.

The manufacturer ( importer) has done enough damage to this vehicule and proven with the dealership that they have really limited knowledge about the Vm engine.

So should we go with go with the coolant marketing hype or Chrysler bullshyte !!!!!!

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:46 am

Neither VM nor Chrysler have either liability or warranty in effect on these powertrains, and FCA have sold me every last gallon of HOAT I'll ever buy from them.

The reason Propylene Glycol coolants are specifically DNU, are the same reason that Ethylene Glycol IAT (green) OAT (orange) ELOAT (red) and Honda blue are also specifically DNU (the last 2 not mentioned because they didn't exist back then) THAT REASON IS THAT THEY ARE NOT COMPATIBLE WITH HOAT, AND MIXING CAUSES VERY BAD THINGS TO HAPPEN, AND QUITE A VARIETY DEPENDING ON WHAT'S MIXED AND WHAT METALS ARE IN THE SYSTEM.

Evans Propylene Glycol coolant has inhibitors to be safe with Stainless, hardened, and mild steels, cast iron, Aluminum, copper, brass, tin, and lead. Basically anything one could find in any auto made in the last century.
But it cannot be mixed with any other type of coolant, including water. For best results the entire system needs to be completely flushed, and completely dried before refilling.

Other significant benefits. Whereas traditional coolants require pressurization to prevent boiling of coolant, as pointed out above, Propylene Glycol coolants are recommended to be run with a vented cap. Even though the volume will increase with increased temp, at ambient pressure they will not boil or steam to very high temp.
This does 2 good things
1) if you get a puncture or crack in your radiator, your coolant will not spray it's self empty all over everything because it's under no internal pressure.
2) Even though the operating temperature may be higher, say, 220-230F (with the 203F thermostat), the fact that there is no boiling or vaporization makes the thermal difference of the coolant inside the radiator and the air outside the radiator, the cooling efficiency is greatly improved, so when at normal operating temperatures, increased power/torque tunes will have less effect on coolant temperature. (as BTU load is increased, thermal efficiency is also increased.)

I have pets. Pets have a way of getting into stuff they hadn't aughta, particularly if it tastes sweet, like every traditional kind of coolant, that are all highly poisonous. The Evans products are not poisonous, and not harmful to the environment (yeah bite me, LOL). I've only had to haul one pet to the vet when she got into some old green stuff that was spilled. Don't ever want to go through that again.

I'm not trying to sell this stuff. I'm just passing forward stuff I've learned when researching.

Oh yeah, like him or not, Jay Leno has been working towards protecting all of his (toys, investments, collectables, whatever) for the last 20ish years, starting with the most valuable. Check it out, it's true. He's made videos explaining why, and showing the difference of the with and without.

layback40 · **Posted:** Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:51 am

GordnadoCRD, several decades ago I worked for Dow Chemical including in R&D, both in Australia & Stateside. I can tell you that the main reasons why propylene glycol was not recommended as an automotive coolant was its viscosity & its lower heat capacity. Internet searches will not provide you with the information needed to make a proper judgement. Evans coolant was around in the 1980's long before changes to inhibitors. Your research will not give you access to places like the Dow R&D data base. But what would they know? They were only the worlds largest producer of glycols for a while back then.

TKB4 · **Posted:** Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:28 am

I don't plan to try it anytime soon, if ever but it is very interesting. I talked to a friend of mine yesterday who is a trained diesel mechanic. He said that this type of coolant is used in many military vehicles which makes sense to me since they often operate at least recently in very hot desert type climates in many regions.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:58 pm

What would be really nice to know about waterless coolants:
We need to know waterless coolant's BTU absorption rate ability, heat flux thermal capacity, and how well it can transfer or give up those absorbed BTU's in a heat exchanger like a radiator back to the metal flues. Those are real factors that count!
No one wants to be a guinea pig, but if it is a viable option for a diesel engine that has better cooling abilities, and will not harm engine gaskets, water pumps, etc...it would be very nice to know.

PZKW108 · **Joined:** Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:23 pm **Posts:** 461

WWDiesel wrote:

What would be really nice to know about waterless coolants:
We need to know waterless coolant's BTU absorption rate ability, heat flux thermal capacity, and how well it can transfer or give up those absorbed BTU's in a heat exchanger like a radiator back to the metal flues. Those are real factors that count!
No one wants to be a guinea pig, but if it is a viable option for a diesel engine that has better cooling abilities, and will not harm engine gaskets, water pumps, etc...it would be very nice to know.

If it's the only thing that count for you then waterless coolant is not for you !!!!

Waterless as lower heat transfer than regular mixed coolant. For the same reason coolant mix ratio affect heat transfer. Coolant is not good at heat transfer but water is, the more water the better transfer.

Waterless has other advantages !

layback40 · **Posted:** Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:21 am

The 428 has issues with cooling as it is. With lower heat capacity & lower flows, the waterless coolant will only add to existing issues. Even higher EGT can be expected. If you were to substantially increase the flow with some sort of water pump upgrade, it would help to overcome this.

Waterless coolant

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