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New Cylinder Head Tips Needed
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=90083		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Science and Energy [ Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  New Cylinder Head Tips Needed
Hello,
I will be replacing the cylinder head (new) and head gasket on my 05 CRD.
What thickness should I get? My guess, the same thickness stamped on the existing one?
Is the stamping visible before the motor is taken apart?
Is there harm in putting the thicker one on? (my guess is yes)

The timing belt, pump, rockers, and lifters were recently done recently. Any other items I should consider replacing while I am in that deep? Turbo seems fine.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cylinder Head Tips Needed
Science and Energy wrote:
Hello,
I will be replacing the cylinder head (new) and head gasket on my 05 CRD.
What thickness should I get? My guess, the same thickness stamped on the existing one?
Is the stamping visible before the motor is taken apart?
Is there harm in putting the thicker one on? (my guess is yes)
The timing belt, pump, rockers, and lifters were recently done recently. Any other items I should consider replacing while I am in that deep? Turbo seems fine.

Which gasket required strictly depends on the protrusion of the cylinder liner and the piston. The engine is measured on the assembly line for this tolerance.
Based on this, go back with what it came with from the factory since you have not done any liner or piston work.

From the FSM: wrote:
Piston protrusion must be measured to determine cylinder head gasket thickness if one or more cylinder liners have been replaced.
NOTE: If cylinder liner(s) have not been removed, the same thickness head gasket that was removed can be used.
0 holes = 1.32mm
1 hole = 1.42mm
2 holes = 1.52mm


Some simply advocate using a universal two hole thickness for all applications regardless of whatever engine work was performed. But I am of the strong opinion that if the engineers and designers of this engine designed it that way, they would have so stated in the Factory Service Manual. Instead, they went to great lengths and detail to cover the hows and whys in the FSM on the procedure to measure piston liner and piston protrusion to determine the correct head gasket thickness. Will a two hole thickness gasket work for all applications, probably since it has be done by some. Is it the best choice, not always if the head has not been milled in my opinion.
I'm an old mechanic and automotive machinist and I believe in going by the book. :2cents:
End the end, it is your engine and an owner can make his own choices as to what to use or not.
Author:  APC9199 [ Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cylinder Head Tips Needed
As far as other things to replace, ARP studs are a HUGE improvement over the torque-to-yield bolts that come standard with the CRD. If you don't already have them, I would highly recommend them. Replacing the turbo mounting screws with studs is also recommended. You might also see if a machine shop can tap the end of the exhaust manifold with a pipe tap, where the EGR tube connects. If you have an EGR delete, having a pipe thread in that location makes blocking the open port much easier and avoids ANY leaks that you might otherwise get with the v-band clamp that comes with the EGR delete kit.

I'm sure the list goes on and on...
Author:  Science and Energy [ Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cylinder Head Tips Needed
I have installed ARP head studs already. I will look at the V band area and consider your method. I guess I should install an EGT probe while this is all happening.
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cylinder Head Tips Needed
Although it technically doesn't NEED to be done with the "Camifold" off, if you don't have an intake boost gauge installed already, it's easier and cleaner to do, when it's off.

As far as the thicknesses of the MLS head gaskets go, too thin is obvious. Too thick has more to do with the OEM TTY head bolts, and the issues involved there are pretty much nullified with the ARP studs. Combining the studs with a 2 hole gasket, (as long as the short block hasn't been messed with) will be your best bet.

Now, if you've had to pull/replace any of the cylinder liners/liner shims, all bets are off, and you absolutely should go through the full book procedure WWDiesel outlined.
Author:  Science and Energy [ Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cylinder Head Tips Needed
It runs fine other than coolant loss so I am not concerned about the cylinder liners. I installed a grid heater and EGR delete. I already put a tapped and plug spot in to add a boost gauge. Haven't done that yet.

What is a good source for a new head? I see ID Parts and Sasquatch. Any where better or cheaper?

I see parts numbers: 5159955AC and 13002733F
Author:  layback40 [ Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cylinder Head Tips Needed
I am going to need my tin hat on for this.
Before you go stripping it down & removing the head. Spend a few dollars & get a can of Chemiweld. I had bubbling in the cooling system of my XJ diesel that has a 425 VM. Drained cooling system & filled with rainwater & a tin of Chemiweld. Ran for a few days & the bubbles stopped. Drained & flushed & then refilled cooling system. No problems in 15,000miles since.
Its probably worth a try in your case.
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cylinder Head Tips Needed
If you opt for a new head...

I bought mine new, from IDParts.

As a new head, it was neither warped, cupped, or twisted. Had I known of the VMdieselspecialist folks at the time, I probably would have gone that direction. However, I really have no buyer's remorse. I got exactly what I paid for, fully assembled, and alcohol tight everywhere, no leaky valves, etc. 100% ready - to - install, NEW.

There was ONE difference between the new head and the OEM. That was the water fitting at the left side head exit going to the EGR cooler being significantly larger than the original. This threw me off, as the plug sent with the WEEKS 1&2, was sized for the port in my OEM head. After a time, I found that the appropriate sized plug had come from IDParts with the new head, as well as the nipple for if I were to retain the EGR cooler. With the recent forced changes to the WEEKS EGR fix, I don't know if this is even an issue any more.

Your mention of the timing belt being replaced recently concerns me. Re-installing a previously tensioned and used timing belt is a pretty bad policy. It MIGHT survive till replaced again, but I wouldn't bet my engine on it, for the price of a new timing belt. If it's only got a few hundred miles on it, perhaps, but if into the thousands of miles, I'd toss it and replace.

So I guess I've run out of what I DO know for sure. Hope it goes well for you.
Author:  krb [ Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cylinder Head Tips Needed
I was advised to use copper sealant on the gasket when reinstalling the head.
Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cylinder Head Tips Needed
krb wrote:
I was advised to use copper sealant on the gasket when reinstalling the head.

I used Kopper Kote spray.
Zero problems.
I can't say it's because of the Kopper Kote, but it certainly hasn't hurt anything as far as I know.
Author:  TKB4 [ Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cylinder Head Tips Needed
I have also used copper coat and have had no problems though when I saw it squeezing out around the edges the thought crossed my mind that it could also squeeze out internally and block some coolant/oil passages etc . I would use it again but maybe not as thick a coat as I used the last time.

As far as gasket thickness, I am not sure there will ever be a way to know for sure . Personally, I am going to go with one size thicker than the original which is only a compromise because it would only matter if you have a 0 hole gasket originally and if you have a 2 hole gasket you cannot go thicker so the factory thickness is your only choice. Maybe after we have engines with 200k miles on them after a factory vs thicker gasket there might be an answer but by then will probably be a mute point.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cylinder Head Tips Needed
Copper Coat and Permatex High Tack or a combination of both are very good head gasket sealers.
Have used them both for many years on all types of engines and have never had a head gasket leak when used.
Both are non-hardening pliable type sealers that will fill any small voids between the mating surfaces.

As to the oil and water passages, the flow of either medium will quickly remove any excess that gets squeezed out into a passage.
Author:  TKB4 [ Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cylinder Head Tips Needed
Thanks WW, thats what I thought but not sure how long it would take to "clear out" apparently it isn't a problem.
Author:  Science and Energy [ Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cylinder Head Tips Needed
Thanks for all the tips. That copper coat stuff is awesome. I will look into VMdieselspecialist. I haven’t heard of them.

I was thinking of swapping the turbo while in there. Mine is working fine but since I have to take it off the head anyways I am exploring the idea of a new/upgraded turbo. Any comments on the Blackbird Industries upgraded turbo for these? Anyone buy one and have feedback?
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