LOST JEEPS :: View topic - I bought a CRD and I have issues. Rockers?

This one sure does have some (lot) of quarks though.

TheKansasGman wrote:

This one sure does have some (lot) of quarks though.

Like every thing, its chock full of quarks.
Except for the anti-things. Those are full of anti-quarks.

I believe this engine is composed of things and anti-things.
Inevitably, it will annihilate itself. :wink:

There is a torque sequence for the intake manifold bolts and head bolts. You'll have to refer to the manual for the sequence.
I'm pretty sure I did 20-25 ft/lbs for the intake.
For the head studs, tighten incrementally following the sequence. Be sure to use arp lube on the upper threads, nut face, and washer.
Final torque for the inner head nuts is 130.
For the outer nuts its 125. (Please someone correct me if I'm wrong)
The studs themselves, when threaded into the block, only need to be hand tight.

WW, Is the for the 2.4 gasser valve cover? looks way different than ours.
(failed pasting of VC/intake picture from SManual here)
Service manual (just found it) calls for 25NM (18.4 ft/lbs)
Thank you both for the stud tq values.
Garrett.

Author:	TheKansasGman [ Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:15 am ]
Post subject:	I bought a CRD and I have issues. Rockers?
Hi, my name is Garrett and I bought a 2005 CRD Sport about a month ago. Here is my story A little background on me, I’m 25 (today is my birthday), I graduated a mechanical engineer but am working as a manufacturing engineer for a company that makes automotive parts. I have been a machinist for about 10 years, building small air engines and gun parts. I have a 30x40 shop that I am working on turning in to my machine shop (this project is holding that up). About a month ago I drove 6 hours to pick up this CRD I found on facebook. 110,000 miles with some light-ish body damage. The kicker was that the transmission was on a pallet, being pulled due to the torque converter bolts backing out and the crank adapter bolts shearing. $2500 and $200 fuel it was in my garage. After doing a lot of reading on there I decided I would try to drill the FP and converter to 3/8-24 just to see if the thing ran before I dropped the money on a good converter and a new FP. About 45 seconds after starting it for the first time I had engine oil running out of the bell housing. Rear main seal was toast, or so I thought. Turns out the sheet metal part and the spacer were missing so, there wasn’t a rear main seal. Ordered rear man kit from squash, ordered a Florida converter and a new FP and bolts from dodge. Got everything put back together around 7pm last night and fired it up. Purred like a kitten, smooth, no drips, fluids were good, happy day. It idled for probably 20 minutes while I was taking it down from the jack stands and aired up a tire. Still smooth, no leaks, was coming up to temp nicely. Time for a drive. I head down my ¼ mile driveway taking it very easy, concerned about air in the trans dropping fluid level. About half way down I tried rolling in to it, not much happened besides a little turbo spool. Get to the end of the drive and turn around, decide I’m going to roll in to it a little harder. 1st gear ran to ~1600 same with second into 3rd. Rolled in for a 3-2 down shift, jumped to ~2000 rpm but has 0 acceleration. I let out of it, did some thinking and tried it again. Same thing but I looked behind me and there was a big black cloud. About this time I start feeling a weird giggle and turn the A/C off. Something has gone to hell. Pull back up to the shop and its only running on 3 cylinders and spewing ATF. (I used the wrong clips to hold the trans cooler lines on, going to haft to pull the fitting because I for the life of me can’t get the 3/8’s fitting on with that little room.) I spent the rest of the evening trying to deal with the trans line issue so I have not been able to diagnose the engine issue but here is what I’m thinking. A. I lost both intake rockers on one cylinder. B. I have an injector issue. Knowing the history with this motor, my guess I rockers. It still starts and runs nice until it hits that dead hole. So far the only option I see is the timing belt, arp, rocker bundle from squash. This thing has 110k on it and I trust it needs a timing belt anyway but I’m not sure I want to spend ~1,400 on this thing. I am looking for advice and suggestions. Is a kind of dinged up crd worth 4,500? I bought this thing as a replacement for the old 96 300-6 f150 I have adopted as my DD. The money isn’t the issue as long as I could drive this thing for ~25,000 miles and get most of my money back, I seem to change vehicles like I change underwear. I apologize for the very long write up, I blame the engineer in me for having issues getting words to work. Thank you all for the help you have unknowingly given me to this point. Garrett,

Author:	Jay ne Ohio [ Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I bought a CRD and I have issues. Rockers?
First off, welcome to the club! Your diagnosis could be correct. I have a CRD that broke 2 rockers at 122k and the rest were wore out (my guess is the previous owner either used the wrong oil or didn't change the oil often enough). Very similar symptoms, idles fine, but has low power, noise, black smoke when you give it any accelerator. I put a new set of rockers and a new timing belt and it has been good for 50k with no more engine trouble. But before you tear it down, low boost will also cause low power and smoke. Check to make sure the turbo hoses are good and secure (the orignals tended to rot on the bottom side due to oil puddling and will crack under pressure). I've heard of cracked intercoolers letting boost drop, but I've never had that problem. Check the play on your turbo (I've had a couple turbo failures). A couple other things to do, Install a new MAP sensor ($20 from a Chevy dealer or $60 from Jeep). Check that the plug on the air box sensor is secure (a loose connection will put the Jeep in limp mode). If you do pull the head to change rockers, put some steel glow plugs in while it's off. Also a good time to delete the EGR.

Author:	geordi [ Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I bought a CRD and I have issues. Rockers?
Another source for parts is IDparts.com and they specialize in the CRD. Your diagnosis sounds accurate - kudos, especially for being a newbie to this engine! If you want any skilled assistance with this, I'm the traveling CRD tech. This is the ONLY vehicle I work on, and I'm going to be in Oklahoma in about a week so I could add you to the itinerary if you wanted. I don't know about the resale values (not a car salesman) but I do know that with the right upgrades of my Level 2 service that includes the rockers, ARP studs, and a stage 1 EGR delete, and a timing belt and water pump.... The results will be usable for at least another 50k-75k miles before there is another risk-factor in the design of this engine. Email (button below) if you'd like to discuss your options more, I'm flying back from Denver today so I should have lots of time for posting and email.

Author:	TheKansasGman [ Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I bought a CRD and I have issues. Rockers?
Jay, Thank you for the welcome and the comments. I have a dead cylinder so I'm not able to diagnose boost issues. i will keep the GM MAP in mind once/ if i get it running. Geordi, Thank you for your comments. Right after i posted I found ID parts, looks like around $800 for Tbelt kit and rockers. Imo, engines are engines, I grew up looking over my dads shoulder working on the DT466 motors in his fleet and have been in and out of multiple gasses. This one sure does have some (lot) of quarks though. You will be getting an email from me shortly. Thank you both, Garrett,

Author:	flash7210 [ Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I bought a CRD and I have issues. Rockers?
TheKansasGman wrote: This one sure does have some (lot) of quarks though. Like every thing, its chock full of quarks. Except for the anti-things. Those are full of anti-quarks. I believe this engine is composed of things and anti-things. Inevitably, it will annihilate itself.

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Author:	TheKansasGman [ Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I bought a CRD and I have issues. Rockers?
flash7210 wrote: TheKansasGman wrote: This one sure does have some (lot) of quarks though. Like every thing, its chock full of quarks. Except for the anti-things. Those are full of anti-quarks. I believe this engine is composed of things and anti-things. Inevitably, it will annihilate itself. Thankfully I've not read of any hootises with these. Garrett

Author:	WWDiesel [ Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I bought a CRD and I have issues. Rockers?
First thing to do is check compression on the dead cylinder. This will tell you if it is mechanical or possibly an injector problem. A NOID test light will tell you if you are getting a signal to the injector. If you got good compression and the injector is getting a signal to fire and you have no strange rattling noises while the engine is running. Swap two of the injectors temporary and see if the misfiring cylinder follows the injector. These engines are no different basically than any other diesel engine, just a few small things that you must be aware of before you tear into it. But there are people on this forum who can guide you.

Author:	TheKansasGman [ Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I bought a CRD and I have issues. Rockers?
I spent some time yesterday getting the trans cooler lines hooked back up. What a pain. I think I guessed wrong that I had lost the intake rockers. I say this because there is a very audible "pop" (pretty dam loud really) trailing the firing of #1 cylinder. (this is all based on my supernatural cylinder firing sense) Also adding to this belief is the fact that its not a "dead" cylinder. from the timing of the vibrations you can tell that its compressing after the exhaust stroke, as well as on the compression. Unplugging #1 injector removes the intake pop and things smooth out a little. Little bugger still idles pretty smooth despite the dead hole. They are calling for highs in the 100's this week here in Kansas, need to find a window AC for my shop to help pull out some of the moisture. Other wise, I intend to start into it tonight. Parts will get ordered over lunch. IDparts for timing belt kit, rocker set and studs. Thank you for stopping by! Garrett,

Author:	TKB4 [ Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I bought a CRD and I have issues. Rockers?
Great ! Hope you don't find anything too bad! Let us know how you do.

Author:	TheKansasGman [ Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I bought a CRD and I have issues. Rockers?
Good morning all, With out digging through the service manual that has proven to be so accurate, or the NUBE section, is there a compiled list of torque specs some where?? While I am doing the rockers I will also be doin studs. From what I have read everyone has had success replacing the bolts with studs one at a time, correct? I have yet to see a torque value for ARP Studs, What has everyone used? For the cam gears I read 80 ft/lbs and ~15 ft/lbs for the valve cover bolts. Besides the stud torque, what am missing? Thank you all, Hope Thursday is good to you, Garrett.

Author:	flash7210 [ Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I bought a CRD and I have issues. Rockers?
There is a torque sequence for the intake manifold bolts and head bolts. You'll have to refer to the manual for the sequence. I'm pretty sure I did 20-25 ft/lbs for the intake. For the head studs, tighten incrementally following the sequence. Be sure to use arp lube on the upper threads, nut face, and washer. Final torque for the inner head nuts is 130. For the outer nuts its 125. (Please someone correct me if I'm wrong) The studs themselves, when threaded into the block, only need to be hand tight.

Author:	WWDiesel [ Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I bought a CRD and I have issues. Rockers?
flash7210 wrote: There is a torque sequence for the intake manifold bolts and head bolts. You'll have to refer to the manual for the sequence. I'm pretty sure I did 20-25 ft/lbs for the intake. For the head studs, tighten incrementally following the sequence. Be sure to use arp lube on the upper threads, nut face, and washer. Final torque for the inner head nuts is 130. For the outer nuts its 125. (Please someone correct me if I'm wrong) The studs themselves, when threaded into the block, only need to be hand tight. From an older post: If you are using ARP Studs, this is the install torque for them came up by one of the members of LOST. (LMWatBullRun) Use the same sequence as outlined in the FSM! torques as follows: torque to 100 fp in three steps. then torque all of the studs to 115 fp in FSM order. then do one last pass and torque the inner bolts (1-10) to 130 fp, and the perimeter bolts (11-18) to 120 fp in FSM order. 130 lb-ft for the bolts directly bordering the cylinders (two center rows) and 120 lb-ft for the outside rows. NOTE: Some instructions depending on where you read say to torque outside studs to 120 ft. lbs, while some others say 125 ft. lbs. I have also seen some posts saying 135 ft. lbs. on the inside studs 1-10. -------- I am sure there are some on here like Mountainman or CaptainDean that have experience in this area and can embellish. ]

Author:	TheKansasGman [ Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I bought a CRD and I have issues. Rockers?
WW, Is the for the 2.4 gasser valve cover? looks way different than ours. (failed pasting of VC/intake picture from SManual here) Service manual (just found it) calls for 25NM (18.4 ft/lbs) Thank you both for the stud tq values. Garrett.

Author:	WWDiesel [ Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I bought a CRD and I have issues. Rockers?
TheKansasGman wrote: WW, Is the for the 2.4 gasser valve cover? looks way different than ours. (failed pasting of VC/intake picture from SManual here) Service manual (just found it) calls for 25NM (18.4 ft/lbs) Thank you both for the stud tq values. Garrett. Updated picture.

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Author:	TheKansasGman [ Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I bought a CRD and I have issues. Rockers?
I’m layin here in bed and it hit me, I planed to replace the studs one at a time. So, I guess I will follow the pattern and go right to full tq. Garrett, Send via mobile, please pardon mistakes. Garrett.

Author:	TheKansasGman [ Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I bought a CRD and I have issues. Rockers?
Started off today around 5 by cleaning my tools and populating my new socket racks. I pulled the valve cover around 9 and sure enough, exhaust rockets on #1 both laying almost exactly the same next to the valve springs. What concerns me is that I can’t find the cam rollers.. I would say everything has gone very smooth to this point. Installed an egr blockoff plate I made from .015 shim stock, that was a very big pain. I did the fan shroud of death mod and so far the cooling stack hasn’t been in the way except for getting my 1/4” impact in there to get the front cover bolts out. Tomorrow I am in the hay field helping a buddy. Sunday my plan is to change the water pump first thing and it needs it! Little drag clockwise, lots of drag cow and some squeal. Then head studs. And I’ll start going the other direction with it. Thank you all for helping me get this far! Here is to hoping the trend continues! Garrett

Author:	TKB4 [ Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I bought a CRD and I have issues. Rockers?
To answer your earlier question Yes there is a fairly extensive list of torque values. I have it somewhere will look for it and let you know.

Author:	TKB4 [ Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I bought a CRD and I have issues. Rockers?
Here is one source for torque values: http://colorado4wheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15

Author:	TKB4 [ Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I bought a CRD and I have issues. Rockers?
Below the first set of pics in this thread is also a list. viewtopic.php?f=98&t=58100 GDE (green diesel engineering also had a how to post for changing timing belt at one time that might have torque values. Generally most everything that fastens to head is 18 to 26 foot lbs injector hold downs are about 24 lbs. I am sure there are other lists and in the Factory Service Manual. Another mountain of information on mods etc are in CRD Tech only Sticky by papaindigo.