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 Post subject: Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:47 am 
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casm wrote:
WWDiesel wrote:
Is yours the 811 file like mine?

Yep, but edited to remove DTCs for codes P0101, P1140, P0401, and P0403.

Well if it is edited to disable (0'ed out) the P0101 how did you get one, did you miss something?

You could try this 811 Stage IV Hot Tune, I had Yeti modify it for me a few months ago to remove the P0101.
I was getting an occasional P0101 on mine on very hot days (100+) when pushing it a little hard.
Have never gotten the P0101 anymore after he zeroed it out. :BANANA:

Yeti's 811 EGR/FCV/MAF-P0101 delete + Stage 4 Hot tune (vers 1.02), link- https://www.dropbox.com/s/re5kogr4z6fue ... 2.bin?dl=0
It's listed on the first page of the DIY Tunes thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:05 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
Well if it is edited to disable (0'ed out) the P0101 how did you get one, did you miss something?


Maybe, but if I did, I can't find it. Everything that should be zeroed is.

Quote:
You could try this 811 Stage IV Hot Tune, I had Yeti modify it for me a few months ago to remove the P0101.
I was getting an occasional P0101 on mine on very hot days (100+) when pushing it a little hard.
Have never gotten the P0101 anymore after he zeroed it out. :BANANA:

Yeti's 811 EGR/FCV/MAF-P0101 delete + Stage 4 Hot tune (vers 1.02), link- https://www.dropbox.com/s/re5kogr4z6fue ... 2.bin?dl=0
It's listed on the first page of the DIY Tunes thread.


Interesting - when I was testing this yesterday, it was over 100°F out. Will give it a shot later; made some progress this morning and want to see where that shakes out first. Here's what's been done:

  • Replaced fuel filter with another Mahle KC182; primed with Diesel-Kleen
  • Reset all DTCs
  • Reflashed ECU
  • Filled up with exactly 19 gallons of fresh diesel

Hand-calculated mileage on the last tank was 18.8mpg (358 miles on trip meter at fill-up); average is usually closer to 23-24mpg.

Went on a 20-mile test loop. Soot is definitely improved, but still way more present than I'm happy about. It doesn't tend to appear during acceleration at speed, but taking off from a stop almost always produces it. Performance below 1600rpm (particularly from a standstill) is still sluggish, but is better than it was. No DTCs, which is a definite improvement.

Found the cause of the water in fuel sensor code: the connector had worked loose. I'll blame myself for that one; must not have got it fully on at the last filter change and just didn't notice. It definitely clicked into place this time, however.

Overall, I'd say it's about 90% back to normal. Going to drive it for a day or two and re-check everything now that it looks as though things are starting to move back towards a baseline.

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 Post subject: Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:34 am 
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Sitrep:

Power when cold is almost normal. When warmed-up, there's a bit of a decline, but not massive - just noticeable.

Soot is decreased, but remains an issue. Cold or warm, it mainly happens off the line or at or near WOT. Can also be made to happen at idle in park.

Confused at this point because I re-checked the intake path this morning and everything still seems kosher. Intercooler, maybe?

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JBA Lifted A-Arms
IRO WJ Short Rear UCA/WWDiesel mount
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HDS Model 001 Thermostat (190°F)
Suncoast TC
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Hayden 2986 fan clutch / GM 11-blade fan
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 Post subject: Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:27 am 
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The idea of the in-tank lift pump and wiring harness finally made it through my thick skull and into my brain. Both are ordered and should turn up some time next week.

Here's hoping this fixes the issue. The KJ reminds me of Alfas I've had in the past: when it works, it's great, but when it's having problems, it's a PITA.

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2005 KJ CRD Limited 4x4:
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JBA Lifted A-Arms
IRO WJ Short Rear UCA/WWDiesel mount
Skid Row Skidplates
HDS Model 001 Thermostat (190°F)
Suncoast TC
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Hayden 2986 fan clutch / GM 11-blade fan
Samco / Sasquatch Intake Hoses
Carter in-tank pump
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 Post subject: Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:40 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:57 pm 
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all you need to do to rule out air in fuel etc from tank or fittings is just run some fuel line into 5gallon container of diesel in back seat floorboard with bolt on end of hose to weigh it down and some duck tape to keep diesel from sloshing out and hold hose up with window hose from this tank directly to either the fuel filter head or the lift pump. If that doesn't stop it neither will a lift pump in tank. Remember though it only rules ou tank and fittings as source of air.

Putting in tank pump in is still a good idea though.

Did you ever check the boost pressures ? MAF ? Without reading whole post again might still be rockers.

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06 Bla Lim, GDE Eco, Destination AT 245/75/17, 151K, H TC
06 D Khaki Lim 126K wkII Eur TC
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 Post subject: Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:07 am 
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TKB4 wrote:
all you need to do to rule out air in fuel etc from tank or fittings is just run some fuel line into 5gallon container of diesel in back seat floorboard with bolt on end of hose to weigh it down and some duck tape to keep diesel from sloshing out and hold hose up with window hose from this tank directly to either the fuel filter head or the lift pump. If that doesn't stop it neither will a lift pump in tank. Remember though it only rules ou tank and fittings as source of air.

Putting in tank pump in is still a good idea though.

Did you ever check the boost pressures ? MAF ? Without reading whole post again might still be rockers.


Yep, boost pressures are fine via OBD-II. The MAF essentially does nothing as I'm running a Stage 2 Weeks kit. MAP sensor was replaced within the last 10 days.

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 Post subject: Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:39 am 
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I meant to check the actual mass air flow not the sensor to get an idea of rocker function.

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05 Blu Lim, Dayton, GDE HT, 255/75/18 , 210K , H TC
06 Bla Lim, GDE Eco, Destination AT 245/75/17, 151K, H TC
06 D Khaki Lim 126K wkII Eur TC
05 D khaki Lim 145k refurbishing
All CRDS: Fumoto, Lift , Fan Shroud mod, fuel head Gen II, SAMCOS,self TB, 2 Mic filt, Hayden


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 Post subject: Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:56 pm 
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TKB4 wrote:
I meant to check the actual mass air flow not the sensor to get an idea of rocker function.


Ah, gotcha.

For actual numbers: the turbo has no problems spooling up to 23psi, either WOT from standing or during a rolling check.

The mass air flow numbers are 15.5g/s, with a little occasional waver to 15.4 or 15.6; this is after letting it idle for 1 minute at normal operating temperature. Those numbers aren't phenomenal, but suggest that (barring catastrophic failure) the rockers should be good into next year.

These were just re-read about 20 minutes ago, so are current.

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OME / Clevis 2.5" Lift
JBA Lifted A-Arms
IRO WJ Short Rear UCA/WWDiesel mount
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 Post subject: Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:33 pm 
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Installed the lift pump today, and it's working. Unfortunately, this has resulted in only a partial improvement.

- Soot is still present. Slightly improved, but not by much.
- Performance below 1600rpm is still sluggish. Between 1600 and 2000rpm, it picks up a bit. At 2000rpm, you're pushed back into the seat.
- Fuel economy is still sitting at 18mpg after 50 miles.

On the plus side:

- Idle is smoother and quieter.

At this point, I'm not sure what to check next and am not in a position to throw money at the problem. Seals on all four injectors were replaced last November, and there are no signs of any of them having failed. Everything I've checked and re-checked in the intake path seems normal. Fuel filter was replaced less than 500 miles ago, and there are no obvious fuel leaks.

Fuel filter head? It is the revised one, but is there a way in which it could fail and let air in?

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2005 KJ CRD Limited 4x4:
245/75R16 BFG TA KO2s
OME / Clevis 2.5" Lift
JBA Lifted A-Arms
IRO WJ Short Rear UCA/WWDiesel mount
Skid Row Skidplates
HDS Model 001 Thermostat (190°F)
Suncoast TC
Full Weeks Kit
Bosch 5V glow plugs
Hayden 2986 fan clutch / GM 11-blade fan
Samco / Sasquatch Intake Hoses
Carter in-tank pump
Provent 200
V6 Airbox


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 Post subject: Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:45 pm 
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OK, after being parked for 4.5 hours, the fuel filter head primer is rock-solid. This makes me happy.

Still trying to figure out what to point fingers at next, though. Turbo vacuum, maybe? The low rev behaviour is making me wonder.

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2005 KJ CRD Limited 4x4:
245/75R16 BFG TA KO2s
OME / Clevis 2.5" Lift
JBA Lifted A-Arms
IRO WJ Short Rear UCA/WWDiesel mount
Skid Row Skidplates
HDS Model 001 Thermostat (190°F)
Suncoast TC
Full Weeks Kit
Bosch 5V glow plugs
Hayden 2986 fan clutch / GM 11-blade fan
Samco / Sasquatch Intake Hoses
Carter in-tank pump
Provent 200
V6 Airbox


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 Post subject: Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:23 pm 
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without rereading the whole post I would check for vacuum leaks and check for turbo vacuum solenoid correct function and maybe even bypass the solenoid to give full boost. If that doesn't help low RPM performance and data actually shows full boost then I have a hard time seeing how it would be turbo related.

_________________
05 Blu LIM, OME GDE Tbo, wk II 245/75/17, KC Lights, bull bar, 195K H TC
05 Blu Lim, Dayton, GDE HT, 255/75/18 , 210K , H TC
06 Bla Lim, GDE Eco, Destination AT 245/75/17, 151K, H TC
06 D Khaki Lim 126K wkII Eur TC
05 D khaki Lim 145k refurbishing
All CRDS: Fumoto, Lift , Fan Shroud mod, fuel head Gen II, SAMCOS,self TB, 2 Mic filt, Hayden


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 Post subject: Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:04 am 
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I remember a member on here several years ago posting about having a sluggish takeoff problem like boost was slow to come up.
He found the little small plastic vacuum line that runs from the turbo modulator over the the turbo vane actuator had either a pinhole in it or it was cracked.
I can't remember which. He replaced the line and it solved his problem.
Just a thought!

Have you watched the boost profile? Is it coming up real slow and then when it does it rockets like you stated?
Sounds to me the boost is not coming up as quick as it should....that would account for the black smoke and the behavior you described.

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 Post subject: Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:47 pm 
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Bit of an update before getting to the replies: tried the primer pump this morning after the KJ had been parked for ±18 hours overnight. It was like pressing on a rock. I suspect that air in fuel is not an issue at this point. Moving on:

TKB4 wrote:
without rereading the whole post I would check for vacuum leaks and check for turbo vacuum solenoid correct function and maybe even bypass the solenoid to give full boost.


Yep, tried that a couple of weeks ago. No change.

Quote:
If that doesn't help low RPM performance and data actually shows full boost then I have a hard time seeing how it would be turbo related.


Understood. FWIW, I did an 18-mile run this morning with Torque Pro logging GPS speed, coolant temperature, engine RPM, MAP pressure, MAF flow rate, and turbo boost pressure:

Image

Couple of things about that graph:

  • Times shown are GMT (don't believe that this can be changed)
  • Disregard everything after about 15.47; I knocked the OBD-II reader out of the port with my leg while driving

With the exception of coolant temperature, pretty much every spike and dip on that graph can be tied back to me working the throttle - which spins up the turbo, which increases the MAF and MAP numbers, and so on.

But below 1600rpm things are still sluggish and sooty. Agreed that the turbo itself may not be an issue, but I am wondering about things in the general vicinity of / attached to it. More in the following reply to WWDiesel.

_________________
2005 KJ CRD Limited 4x4:
245/75R16 BFG TA KO2s
OME / Clevis 2.5" Lift
JBA Lifted A-Arms
IRO WJ Short Rear UCA/WWDiesel mount
Skid Row Skidplates
HDS Model 001 Thermostat (190°F)
Suncoast TC
Full Weeks Kit
Bosch 5V glow plugs
Hayden 2986 fan clutch / GM 11-blade fan
Samco / Sasquatch Intake Hoses
Carter in-tank pump
Provent 200
V6 Airbox


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 Post subject: Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:54 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
I remember a member on here several years ago posting about having a sluggish takeoff problem like boost was slow to come up.
He found the little small plastic vacuum line that runs from the turbo modulator over the the turbo vane actuator had either a pinhole in it or it was cracked.


That's ringing some bells; I could swear that I've run across that same thread before. Will turn Google loose on it in a moment.

Quote:
I can't remember which. He replaced the line and it solved his problem.
Just a thought!


No, that's definitely worth checking into. It might also explain why the issue seems more pronounced once the engine's had a chance to get good and warm, though it is happening from a cold start as well. There's also that vacuum hard line that runs across the top of the firewall, which may be worth taking a look at.

Quote:
Have you watched the boost profile? Is it coming up real slow and then when it does it rockets like you stated?
Sounds to me the boost is not coming up as quick as it should....that would account for the black smoke and the behavior you described.


Which is where my mind was wandering to while thinking this over last night. That said, the graph from Torque (see reply to TKB4 above) seems to indicate that the relationship between throttle, boost, airflow, and manifold pressure are pretty much one-to-one, so I'm basically shrugging at this point based on what the data's looking like.

Memo to self: see what's happening with fuel rail pressure & flow on the next logging run.

I'll do some poking around on the vacuum lines later on once it's had a chance to cool down. Not anxious to burn myself yet again on a hot engine...

_________________
2005 KJ CRD Limited 4x4:
245/75R16 BFG TA KO2s
OME / Clevis 2.5" Lift
JBA Lifted A-Arms
IRO WJ Short Rear UCA/WWDiesel mount
Skid Row Skidplates
HDS Model 001 Thermostat (190°F)
Suncoast TC
Full Weeks Kit
Bosch 5V glow plugs
Hayden 2986 fan clutch / GM 11-blade fan
Samco / Sasquatch Intake Hoses
Carter in-tank pump
Provent 200
V6 Airbox


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 Post subject: Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:24 pm 
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I have a mechanical boost gauge. Wish I could do a video for you to show how quick my boost comes up following engine rpms.
It is very non-linear, it seems to be very exponential in nature starting by following rpms up for a split second and surpasses them very quickly until it peaks and then falls back slightly as vehicle demand speed is achieved even with the go pedal held at a steady state...

Another thought on your issue, could be the turbo vanes are sticky and slow to respond???

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 Post subject: Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:04 pm 
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I referenced that post when I was applying the new loom protection. The place the hole was found, was above the exhaust pipe where it exits the back of the turbo, and turns down. The vacuum hose is above this point, hugging the firewall and passenger side inner fender. The heat makes the hard plastic line soft, and even if it doesn't develop a hole, it can soften to the point that it folds or kinks, either fully, or semi-blocking the vacuum.

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Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
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 Post subject: Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:50 am 
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WWDiesel wrote:
I have a mechanical boost gauge. Wish I could do a video for you to show how quick my boost comes up following engine rpms.
It is very non-linear, it seems to be very exponential in nature starting by following rpms up for a split second and surpasses them very quickly until it peaks and then falls back slightly as vehicle demand speed is achieved even with the go pedal held at a steady state...


Which makes sense - the turbo has to build up a head of steam (so to speak) from the exhaust flow, and it follows that as the turbo spins up the exhaust assistance given to the momentum of the spin-up is greater as exhaust flow increases.

Quote:
Another thought on your issue, could be the turbo vanes are sticky and slow to respond???


This has also been nagging at me, and has me wondering if maybe the actuator on the turbo itself hasn't become sticky. Perhaps it's time for some oven cleaner on the exhaust side of the turbo. It makes sense that if the actuator was sticking (or had limited travel), the nothing-nothing-nothing-it's-waking-up-oh-hey-there-we-go performance could be following on from that - along with the soot and lousy fuel economy.

In other news, I bypassed the turbo modulator again last night and took it for a drive, giving it as much of an Italian tune-up as is possible in one of the flattest parts of the country. Same results. Still need to check vacuum lines before tearing into the turbo, but am thinking that it wouldn't hurt to do the cleaning.

_________________
2005 KJ CRD Limited 4x4:
245/75R16 BFG TA KO2s
OME / Clevis 2.5" Lift
JBA Lifted A-Arms
IRO WJ Short Rear UCA/WWDiesel mount
Skid Row Skidplates
HDS Model 001 Thermostat (190°F)
Suncoast TC
Full Weeks Kit
Bosch 5V glow plugs
Hayden 2986 fan clutch / GM 11-blade fan
Samco / Sasquatch Intake Hoses
Carter in-tank pump
Provent 200
V6 Airbox


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 Post subject: Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:52 am 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
I referenced that post when I was applying the new loom protection. The place the hole was found, was above the exhaust pipe where it exits the back of the turbo, and turns down. The vacuum hose is above this point, hugging the firewall and passenger side inner fender. The heat makes the hard plastic line soft, and even if it doesn't develop a hole, it can soften to the point that it folds or kinks, either fully, or semi-blocking the vacuum.


Makes perfect sense, and I know exactly the vacuum line you're referring to. Will check tomorrow when I have use of the driveway again.

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2005 KJ CRD Limited 4x4:
245/75R16 BFG TA KO2s
OME / Clevis 2.5" Lift
JBA Lifted A-Arms
IRO WJ Short Rear UCA/WWDiesel mount
Skid Row Skidplates
HDS Model 001 Thermostat (190°F)
Suncoast TC
Full Weeks Kit
Bosch 5V glow plugs
Hayden 2986 fan clutch / GM 11-blade fan
Samco / Sasquatch Intake Hoses
Carter in-tank pump
Provent 200
V6 Airbox


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 Post subject: Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:08 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:12 pm
Posts: 2505
Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
When I went through mine I expected to have trouble in this area, and got a small roll of copper tubing to replace the plastic, (icemaker water line) but haven't had any trouble with the plastic line thus far. (pre-emptively insulated along with the oil supply line to the turbo.)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QDL1J7W/ref=sspa_dk_detail_1?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B07QDL1J7W&pd_rd_w=WoYR9&pf_rd_p=45a72588-80f7-4414-9851-786f6c16d42b&pd_rd_wg=PxNuZ&pf_rd_r=8HR9J5S72PKMP2KW9AAX&pd_rd_r=05a4e57c-f630-4fee-a08b-233b62145b7a&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyQ0hWSldVWlc3T1lGJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjEwNTQwVEVXQUhFNlJVODRaJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAyOTU1MzUxS1NOTUo5UVJFUUk4JndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
Or
I bought mine from the local True Value Hardware.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
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eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
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GM 12611872
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