Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:13 pm

As a test temporarily , it would be nice to install a "Tee" inline between the turbo actuator and the turbo vacuum modulator controller and run a long hose inside to a mechanical vacuum gauge (absolute pressure gauge) so the driver could monitor how quickly the control system actually demands greater turbo vane position (boost) when pressing the go petal (accelerating). :idea:

That's what I would do if I were having this issue after ruling out all the other things you have tried.
Simple, inexpensive, and it may actually tell you something? :POPCORN:

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

WWDiesel wrote:

As a test temporarily , it would be nice to install a "Tee" inline between the turbo actuator and the turbo vacuum modulator controller and run a long hose inside to a mechanical vacuum gauge (absolute pressure gauge) so the driver could monitor how quickly the control system actually demands greater turbo vane position (boost) when pressing the go petal (accelerating). :idea:

That's what I would do if I were having this issue after ruling out all the other things you have tried.
Simple, inexpensive, and it may actually tell you something? :POPCORN:

Totally agreed. Any recommendations on a gauge? I've used them in the past but have never actually owned my own, so am slightly dumb when it comes to knowing what to look for.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:12 pm

casm wrote:

Totally agreed. Any recommendations on a gauge? I've used them in the past but have never actually owned my own, so am slightly dumb when it comes to knowing what to look for.

Any good vacuum gauge should suffice. Amazon has plenty of them listed along with several other online vendors.
Small hose to 1/4" NPT fitting will be needed to screw on the gauge to connect vacuum hose.

Similar to this:
https://www.amazon.com/Instruments-Pres ... 6BS1FZCP7Z

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:13 pm

FYI
Found this, a great place to purchase silicone vacuum hose by the foot, just ordered a bunch in four different sizes in "Red" to have in stock. 3.5mm, 4mm, & 6mm. They have some other sizes as well, but DO NOT list a 7mm which I thought odd! :shock:

They also have it in black and blue. They also have all kinds of silicone boost hose piping, connectors, adapters, etc... in various colors.
and free shipping to boot. Their prices were lower than anywhere else I could find! Less than $1 per foot for the smaller sizes....

https://www.siliconehose.com/

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

Replaced the fuel filter head this morning. I had intended to reuse the fuel filter that was installed roughly 1000 miles ago, but, given that there was a recent history of fuel contamination, decided to play it safe and just write that filter off; the one supplied with the filter head was used. At least this means that everything (including the water-in-fuel sensor, which had thrown a couple of sporadic CELs since contamination took place) at that end of things is fresh.

Sitrep: more incremental improvements. Unsurprising, given that installing an in-tank fuel pump exposed an air leak at the plunger on the filter head. Soot is considerably reduced (I'd estimate on the order of around 30%), and while off-the-line power delivery still leaves something to be desired, the sluggishness is now down to idle through about 1500rpm vs. 1800rpm.

Fuel economy picked up a bit on my 10-mile test loop - roughly 20mpg (corrected EVIC numbers) in mixed driving vs. approximately 17-18mpg previously. Since the loop begins with filling up at the local Shell with the good-but-cheap diesel, I go with EVIC estimates until it's time to fill up again, at which point miles driven divided by gallons pumped is used. Didn't bother with hand-calculating the last tank since there were so many things out of whack.

At this point, the two remaining known issues are that the turbo vane actuator needs a good cleaning (along with the exhaust side of the turbo), and the airbox lid needs to be replaced or repaired to fix the damage on the outlet for the airbox-to-turbo hose.

Incidentally, for anyone still on the fence regarding whether or not an in-tank pump is a worthwhile investment, the answer is still an emphatic yes. Not having to manually-prime the filter head after juggling a filter that's full of diesel back into place is such a nice side benefit: three turns of the key to run the pump while operating the bleeder and it was done. Filter changes are going to be much less hassle from here on out.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:40 pm

casm wrote:

Incidentally, for anyone still on the fence regarding whether or not an in-tank pump is a worthwhile investment, the answer is still an emphatic yes. Not having to manually-prime the filter head after juggling a filter that's full of diesel back into place is such a nice side benefit: three turns of the key to run the pump while operating the bleeder and it was done. Filter changes are going to be much less hassle from here on out.

Now that you have the lift pump, you can look at adding the secondary 2 micron filter. Let me know if you want a mounting bracket and or kit, I have them in stock and the brackets in lime green or red powder coated. Kit has a nice bleed valve and hose to falicate priming new filters into a catch container.

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

WWDiesel wrote:

casm wrote:

Incidentally, for anyone still on the fence regarding whether or not an in-tank pump is a worthwhile investment, the answer is still an emphatic yes. Not having to manually-prime the filter head after juggling a filter that's full of diesel back into place is such a nice side benefit: three turns of the key to run the pump while operating the bleeder and it was done. Filter changes are going to be much less hassle from here on out.

Now that you have the lift pump, you can look at adding the secondary 2 micron filter. Let me know if you want a mounting bracket and or kit, I have them in stock and the brackets in lime green or red powder coated. Kit has a nice bleed valve and hose to falicate priming new filters into a catch container.

I like the idea

Let me see where things sit in a few days. Time and weather (we're starting to get our first thunderstorms of the season) are starting to become adversarial, which means I need to get my butt in gear on figuring out the remaining running issues.

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

Ended up with a client cancelling on me right after I posted that, so decided to use the morning to do the turbo cleaning. Did pretty much exactly what was outlined in this thread, but gave the turbo a good 2-hour soak, occasionally turning the exhaust wheel and exercising the turbo vane actuator with a Mityvac. Was able to pull and hold 25in/Hg according to the gauge, so do not suspect it's an issue.

Pros: responsiveness is improved, with everything loosening up gradually following some Italian tune-up style wumphs. Idle to 1500rpm is better, but still not quite right.

Cons: soot is about the same.

I'm missing something here, and I'm not sure what it is. Going to go quadruple-check everything over the next couple of days as time permits.

Gordnado, I haven't forgotten about the fuel filter head; just haven't been able to get to it.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:23 am

Understood.

Once you get the leak dealt with, take a consideration at WWDiesel's 2-filter setup.
You can greatly extend HPfuel pump protection with the "polishing filter" before the pump.

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

GordnadoCRD wrote:

Understood.

Once you get the leak dealt with, take a consideration at WWDiesel's 2-filter setup.
You can greatly extend HPfuel pump protection with the "polishing filter" before the pump.

I like that idea.

In other news, a Samco may have gone South, which might be the cause of the soot & sluggishness. Will have to check tomorrow when I have more time, but think I may have found a split.

TKB4 · **Posted:** Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:33 pm

That would certainly be consistent with the soot and sluggishness

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:38 pm

casm wrote:

I like that idea.
In other news, a Samco may have gone South, which might be the cause of the soot & sluggishness. Will have to check tomorrow when I have more time, but think I may have found a split.

I hate to say it in a way, but I hope that is your problem. Very simple to fix and I know you been chasing this elusive rabbit for a while... :BINGO:

If it is, very surprised, I thought Samco's were better than that. :shock:

PS, I got Samco's on mine.

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

TKB4 wrote:

That would certainly be consistent with the soot and sluggishness

Yep. More on this below:

WWDiesel wrote:

I hate to say it in a way, but I hope that is your problem. Very simple to fix and I know you been chasing this elusive rabbit for a while... :BINGO:

If it is, very surprised, I thought Samco's were better than that. :shock:

PS, I got Samco's on mine.

From what I found earlier, it appears as though the turbo-to-intercooler hose was rubbing against the air pressure sensor on the airbox and eventually wore its way through. Didn't have time to pull the hose and confirm today, but I suspect that's likely the issue. Should know more tomorrow.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:33 am

casm wrote:

From what I found earlier, it appears as though the turbo-to-intercooler hose was rubbing against the air pressure sensor on the airbox and eventually wore its way through. Didn't have time to pull the hose and confirm today, but I suspect that's likely the issue. Should know more tomorrow.

Being it was a small hole, I am surprised you did not hear a whistle or high pitched blowing noise. :shock:

TKB4 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:01 am

On my sons CRD his SAMCO in same location was rubbing on something and he got an aftermarket sleeve kinda like the cover on the original hoses but more solid rather than loosely woven and he also rearranged things a bit.

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

WWDiesel wrote:

Being it was a small hole, I am surprised you did not hear a whistle or high pitched blowing noise. :shock:

Not a peep. Everything sounded normal.

FWIW, the rub spot looks to be about an inch long. Not sure just yet how much of it may have worn through and how much may have only chafed (or if it's the only damaged part of the hose), but should know more this afternoon.

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

TKB4 wrote:

On my sons CRD his SAMCO in same location was rubbing on something and he got an aftermarket sleeve kinda like the cover on the original hoses but more solid rather than loosely woven and he also rearranged things a bit.

If you wouldn't mind asking him what he used for the sleeve, I'd appreciate it. Don't want to keep eating these things every 18 months.

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

OK... It looks as though the turbo-to-intercooler hose does have a couple of small splits in it from rubbing up against the air pressure sensor on the side of the airbox. No photos for the moment; once the new hoses arrive next week, I'll take some.

This was a weird one to track down, largely because of how the problem manifested itself. The soot and performance issues usually became more pronounced as the KJ warmed up, but were also sometimes almost (though never entirely) gone. Theory as to what was going on:

The air pressure sensor rubbed two parallel wear spots in the hose as the hose contacted it. The wear spots only appeared as rub marks, not actual tears. When the hose would move and/or heat up or cool down, the tears would become more or less pronounced depending on conditions - effectively, they'd either seal up most of the way, or open up just enough to cause an air leak. While I had noticed the rub marks previously, it wasn't until yesterday that the tears they were concealing were obvious to me, and that likely only happened because I was swapping out the airbox lid and just happened to look at them at the right time at the right angle to see a minuscule crack.

I'm probably going to make a bracket to hold some sort of soft material (pool noodle foam, maybe) over the air pressure sensor so that any rubbing won't be as abrasive. The only other option I can think of is to replace the Samcos entirely with stainless or aluminium tubing and just have silicone hose at each end to handle vibration, but that's likely more than I want to get into right now.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:19 pm

These won’t get a hole in them

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:26 pm

Well at least you got an intank lift pump out of the deal! :BANANA:

Just went and checked mine and yep, it has a small rub spot right at the air box sensor. Not bad yet, but I could feel it.
Will be making a protective sleve to protect the Samco Hose.
Pictures will follow later tonight once I get it done.
Thanks casm for idenifying this problem. Looks like there may be some other spots where the rocking of the engine allows things to touch and rub the boost hoses. :shock:

Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump

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