LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump

Sounds like you're getting air in the fuel system. Does your card have a gen 2 fuel filter head? Check the heater plug on the filter head for diesel. The pins in the plug fail and allow air to enter the fuel head there. A gen 2 fuel head and a lift pump are the cure for air in fuel issues.

I didn't do the in tank pump. I added a facet lift pump next to the battery and that cured my air in fuel issues.

Edit:. The main fuel pump (cp3) rarely fails.

Uhm... This started right after fueling up on a long trip. That suggests the filter.

The plunger button does NOT remain firm after starting the engine or while running - it is only to bring fuel to the filter and through to the HPFP, and will lose firmness / pressure as soon as the engine starts sucking on the line and filter again. Completely normal.

What you are describing sounds like a filter that is doing its job, protecting you from a dodgy tankful. Change the filter, pre-fill it before installing with Power Service Diesel Kleen silver bottle and drive on. I'll bet the problem is fixed.

Flash can you supply us with a supplier, part number, etc for the glass prefilter ?

Yeah, sounds like you got a tank of who-knows-what... And shows how resilient the diesel engine is, that it will still run on stuff that is barely fuel.

At least it isn't the fuel pump.

At the cost of fuel filters and for overall good you could use something like a facet pump or a cheap one similar to it (about $20 at parts stores or $10 on eBay to pump the tank out all at once and put all new fuel in. Here is a pic of my portable transfer/lift pump wired to battery with a push button switch. I have also used with a cut off valve to use my jeep tank to fill up diesel lawn mowers as well as my tractor. Just make sure you don't empty it all out of the jeep. Here is pic using it on jeep:
https://imgur.com/e3eyKMc

You could also filter the fuel and still use it if you wish even separate the water out wit
Still sounds like there could be another contributing problem if it is still putting out a lot of black smoke though. If you replaced almost all the fuel that would answer the question quickly. A couple of times over the years I had old fuel or water in fuel I pumped it out and filtered it then used it in my F350 7.3 liter diesel. That thing will burn anything!

Another day, another 'WTF'.
Burned through all of the contaminated diesel yesterday. Did a 20-gallon fill. No change.
I'm seeing two issues: one is a surprising amount of soot on takeoff (warm or cold; doesn't matter); the other is reluctance to get moving from cold. Once everything is warmed up even slightly it's OK, but on the first start of the day it seems to need about 30 seconds of idling before it wants to actually pull.
I'm feeling like this may be an issue around the turbo (though not necessarily the turbo itself); all hoses in the intake path were checked, re-checked, and checked again, and I can't find anything that indicates a problem. Intercooler seems OK, at least as far as I can tell from eyeballing it; haven't had it pressure-tested. Turbo vacuum actuating solenoids, etc. were replaced about 5 months ago, and are functional (nice buzzing with the ignition on) from what I can tell.
Frustration is running high at this point, and I'm getting close to stocking up on hot dogs and marshmallows for the inevitable bonfire. Something is screwy and I'm just not seeing it. Any help appreciated.

:idea:

Just a few thoughts,
Have you checked your transmission fluid level? Low fluid level could be cause of slow start to pull?

Transmission should be overfilled slightly, they seem to be happiest when overfilled by at least a half a quart or more.

Also, A few have reported finding the screw on filter inside the pan broke off the plastic pipe nipple that it screws on to. Might be worth checking?

The turbo at idle does not provide any boost.

Have you checked the MAP sensor or replaced it? If not, I would replace it.
It regulates the boost via the ECM.
:juggle:

Author:	casm [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
Roughly 1600 miles after having the rear main seal, torque converter, and transmission oil pump replaced, I'm having what appears to be a fuel-related issue. This first reared its head on Sunday. I was about 900 miles into a 1300-mile drive home and stopped to fill up. Got back on the freeway and noticed that the KJ was really reluctant to build speed or rev over 2500rpm. No CEL, misfiring, etc. Hopped off at the next exit and began checking for any obvious issues. Didn't find anything (including leaks), but the manual primer on the fuel filter head was soft. Gave it 15 or so pumps until it firmed up, got back in, started up, drove off, no problems - everything was behaving properly and the KJ pulled like it normally does. However, over the remainder of the drive (which finished up yesterday), I noticed that performance was gradually falling off and there was more and more soot appearing under hard acceleration. Again, no CELs or other misbehaviour. Went out to move the KJ into the driveway this morning in order to unload it. It started up OK, but was reluctant to crawl when put in Drive. Eventually got it moving after a few seconds, but as I was reversing into the driveway it stalled out completely while blocking the street. It did restart and backed into the driveway, but the soot was back along with needing to use a heavy right foot to get it moving. Gave the filter head another 15 or so pumps, though I've yet to drive it since doing that. The transmission has been well-behaved since it came back from the shop, and the ATF level has held steady with no discolouration or burning smell. For now I'm not suspecting it, but am not completely discounting it as a possibility either. I do not have an in-tank fuel pump. It's on the list, but if the main pump is going out it makes sense to address that before doing the in-tank unit. The fuel filter was replaced 17,000 miles ago so is coming up on needing replacement, but should have another 3000-8000 miles left in it. Any ideas? Buying a new fuel pump just after having all of the other work done is not something I want to have to do, but this is feeling like a fuel feed / air-in-fuel issue. I'm just not sure where.

Author:	ebbnflow [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
Sounds like you're getting air in the fuel system. Does your card have a gen 2 fuel filter head? Check the heater plug on the filter head for diesel. The pins in the plug fail and allow air to enter the fuel head there. A gen 2 fuel head and a lift pump are the cure for air in fuel issues. I didn't do the in tank pump. I added a facet lift pump next to the battery and that cured my air in fuel issues. Edit:. The main fuel pump (cp3) rarely fails. Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Author:	casm [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
ebbnflow wrote: Sounds like you're getting air in the fuel system. Does your card have a gen 2 fuel filter head? Check the heater plug on the filter head for diesel. The pins in the plug fail and allow air to enter the fuel head there. A gen 2 fuel head and a lift pump are the cure for air in fuel issues. It does have the revised fuel filter head with the blue plug. I'll check the electrical connectors later today and see if I find anything. Presumably, if air's getting in at the plug pins, I should see a minor diesel leak around them; is this correct? I'm really hoping this is the issue. It hasn't done this in the nearly two years we've had it, but having experienced air in the fuel in other diesels, this has a similar feel. Quote: I didn't do the in tank pump. I added a facet lift pump next to the battery and that cured my air in fuel issues. That's definitely a possibility, and I'll look more into it. Quote: Edit:. The main fuel pump (cp3) rarely fails. Thanks - I appreciate the pointers.

Author:	WWDiesel [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
Adding an in tank fuel pump is the best solution and it will cure all air in fuel issues for good. It puts the entire fuel system under 10-15 psig pressure from inside the fuel tank all the way to the back of the CP3 injection pump. It will make your CP3 function a little better as it does not have to suck fuel anymore. ANY leak anywhere on the fuel system will be self evident very quickly as fuel will leak out and be visible and will not let any air suck in. An in line add on fuel pump will also work and is a little easier and quicker to install, but it too is still sucking the fuel from inside the fuel tank. So, any leak on the suction side of an in line fuel pump can still suck air and ingest it into the fuel system. Best suggestion, if you go the in line fuel pump route, replace both slip on factory fittings, one on top of the fuel tank and the other where the rubber hose connects to the metal line at the body that goes all the way to the fuel filter head. Those slip on fittings are designed for pressure sealing and DO NOT seal vacuum very well. Most simply replace whole piece of hose with regular diesel rated fuel hose and a couple of good quality screw clamps. And as stated, a CP3 going bad is a rarity as long as it is provided with plenty of clean fuel.

Author:	geordi [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
Uhm... This started right after fueling up on a long trip. That suggests the filter. The plunger button does NOT remain firm after starting the engine or while running - it is only to bring fuel to the filter and through to the HPFP, and will lose firmness / pressure as soon as the engine starts sucking on the line and filter again. Completely normal. What you are describing sounds like a filter that is doing its job, protecting you from a dodgy tankful. Change the filter, pre-fill it before installing with Power Service Diesel Kleen silver bottle and drive on. I'll bet the problem is fixed.

LOST JEEPS http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/

Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=90280	Page 1 of 6

Author:	TKB4 [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
I agree with changing the filters first since it has that many miles on it already and generally if air in fuel it would start then die or not start, not keep running and just crawl though its definitely possible.

Author:	casm [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
geordi wrote: Uhm... This started right after fueling up on a long trip. That suggests the filter. facepalm Well, I feel dumb. Talk about overlooking the obvious. New filter's ordered and should be here Friday. I'll see how it does after that. Quote: The plunger button does NOT remain firm after starting the engine or while running - it is only to bring fuel to the filter and through to the HPFP, and will lose firmness / pressure as soon as the engine starts sucking on the line and filter again. Completely normal. What you are describing sounds like a filter that is doing its job, protecting you from a dodgy tankful. Change the filter, pre-fill it before installing with Power Service Diesel Kleen silver bottle and drive on. I'll bet the problem is fixed. Yup. I'll give that a shot first; pretty certain you're right.

Author:	layback40 [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
Best to always have a spare fuel filter on hand. You never know when you will need it. You may have purchased a tank of contaminated diesel in your trip. Be ready for it to happen again soon. If it does, treat your fuel with Seafoam. As the weather warms up the bugs in contaminated fuel start to breed like crazy. You may find black sludge in the filter.

Author:	flash7210 [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
I have a Facet in-line fuel pump and this glass filter is a pre filter into the pump. It traps all the large bits. The last time I had symptoms of a clogged fuel filter, I took apart this pre-filter, cleaned it really good, and put it back in. And all was better.

Author:	TKB4 [ Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
Flash can you supply us with a supplier, part number, etc for the glass prefilter ?

Author:	flash7210 [ Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
TKB4 wrote: Flash can you supply us with a supplier, part number, etc for the glass prefilter ? Your local auto parts store likely has it on the shelf. It’s a common filter sold under a variety of brand names. I would only use it on the suction side of the pump. Never on the pressure side.

Author:	cerich [ Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
You just described why I have a spare fuel filter in the CRD since new, the tools to change it and a quart of this https://powerservice.com/psp_product/cl ... k-cleaner/

Author:	casm [ Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
Changed out the fuel filter on Friday and primed it with Diesel Kleen (silver bottle). Have put about 150 miles on the KJ since then. Off the line, there's still reluctance to get going. Once it's moving, things are improved but not as responsive as they were. There's no change in the amount of soot being blown out of the exhaust, which is to say that it's still an unusually high amount. Fuel economy has also taken about a 10%-15% hit. Again, there are no obvious leaks or other signs of where air may be entering the fuel system. New filter is on tight, and the electrical connectors at the filter head show no signs of having diesel on them. Between the tank and the filter head, there does not appear to be any sign of seepage. At this point, about the only thing I can think of is that the remaining half-tank of fuel (which was topped off with fresh diesel and about 8oz. of Diesel Kleen) may have clogged up the new filter. At this point, I'm guessing that the best thing I can do is to top off and re-treat the fuel, order another fuel filter, and change it out again when the tank is as close to empty as I can get it without sucking air. Does this sound reasonable? I'm really trying to avoid getting pulled over for looking like I'm rolling coal when I'm not.

Author:	casm [ Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
Topped off the tank and added Clear-Diesel as well as Bio-Kleen Biocide. Drove a 20-mile loop to make sure that it had made it into the filter; still no evident fuel leaks. Will see what happens as the tank goes down.

Page 1 of 6	All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	geordi [ Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
Yeah, sounds like you got a tank of who-knows-what... And shows how resilient the diesel engine is, that it will still run on stuff that is barely fuel.

Author:	TKB4 [ Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
At least it isn't the fuel pump. At the cost of fuel filters and for overall good you could use something like a facet pump or a cheap one similar to it (about $20 at parts stores or $10 on eBay to pump the tank out all at once and put all new fuel in. Here is a pic of my portable transfer/lift pump wired to battery with a push button switch. I have also used with a cut off valve to use my jeep tank to fill up diesel lawn mowers as well as my tractor. Just make sure you don't empty it all out of the jeep. Here is pic using it on jeep: https://imgur.com/e3eyKMc You could also filter the fuel and still use it if you wish even separate the water out with something like this https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Funnel-AF3CB- ... 4695177827 Still sounds like there could be another contributing problem if it is still putting out a lot of black smoke though. If you replaced almost all the fuel that would answer the question quickly. A couple of times over the years I had old fuel or water in fuel I pumped it out and filtered it then used it in my F350 7.3 liter diesel. That thing will burn anything!

Author:	casm [ Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
geordi wrote: Yeah, sounds like you got a tank of who-knows-what... And shows how resilient the diesel engine is, that it will still run on stuff that is barely fuel. No kidding. This is the first time in a very, very long time that this has happened to me - probably over 15 years at this point. Says a lot about how much more consistent the quality of diesel fuel has become as well. Anyway, have about 75 miles on the current tank. Performance seems to be recovering, but I suspect that this is also going to require another fuel filter replacement. TKB4 wrote: At least it isn't the fuel pump. And very relieved I am about that, too. Having just done some very major and expensive work to this thing, that literally would have been the last straw. Quote: At the cost of fuel filters and for overall good you could use something like a facet pump or a cheap one similar to it (about $20 at parts stores or $10 on eBay to pump the tank out all at once and put all new fuel in. Here is a pic of my portable transfer/lift pump wired to battery with a push button switch. I have also used with a cut off valve to use my jeep tank to fill up diesel lawn mowers as well as my tractor. Just make sure you don't empty it all out of the jeep. Here is pic using it on jeep: https://imgur.com/e3eyKMc Funnily enough, I did think about grabbing a Harbor Freight transfer pump and doing that. Problem is, the only other place I'd have to put the contents of the tank would be in the VW... And if the Jeep didn't like that fuel, the Jetta certainly won't. Hell, this whole incident made me paranoid enough that I decided to pre-emptively Clear-Diesel and Biocide the Volkswagen just to be on the safe side, given that it just got a new fuel filter on Saturday. Quote: You could also filter the fuel and still use it if you wish even separate the water out wit Still sounds like there could be another contributing problem if it is still putting out a lot of black smoke though. If you replaced almost all the fuel that would answer the question quickly. A couple of times over the years I had old fuel or water in fuel I pumped it out and filtered it then used it in my F350 7.3 liter diesel. That thing will burn anything! Yep, agreed on the possibility of another issue. Going to go through all the intake connections and make sure that they're down tight when it's not 102°F outside; similar symptoms have been seen before when a clamp has worked its way loose. All of the turbo vacuum actuating stuff was replaced back in March, so am not suspecting those at this time. And I hear you on the 'will burn anything' aspect of certain engines. I've had a Peugeot 504 and Mercedes 300TD that would practically run on melted blacktop

Author:	casm [ Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
Another day, another 'WTF'. Burned through all of the contaminated diesel yesterday. Did a 20-gallon fill. No change. I'm seeing two issues: one is a surprising amount of soot on takeoff (warm or cold; doesn't matter); the other is reluctance to get moving from cold. Once everything is warmed up even slightly it's OK, but on the first start of the day it seems to need about 30 seconds of idling before it wants to actually pull. I'm feeling like this may be an issue around the turbo (though not necessarily the turbo itself); all hoses in the intake path were checked, re-checked, and checked again, and I can't find anything that indicates a problem. Intercooler seems OK, at least as far as I can tell from eyeballing it; haven't had it pressure-tested. Turbo vacuum actuating solenoids, etc. were replaced about 5 months ago, and are functional (nice buzzing with the ignition on) from what I can tell. Frustration is running high at this point, and I'm getting close to stocking up on hot dogs and marshmallows for the inevitable bonfire. Something is screwy and I'm just not seeing it. Any help appreciated.

Author:	WWDiesel [ Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
casm wrote: Another day, another 'WTF'. Burned through all of the contaminated diesel yesterday. Did a 20-gallon fill. No change. I'm seeing two issues: one is a surprising amount of soot on takeoff (warm or cold; doesn't matter); the other is reluctance to get moving from cold. Once everything is warmed up even slightly it's OK, but on the first start of the day it seems to need about 30 seconds of idling before it wants to actually pull. I'm feeling like this may be an issue around the turbo (though not necessarily the turbo itself); all hoses in the intake path were checked, re-checked, and checked again, and I can't find anything that indicates a problem. Intercooler seems OK, at least as far as I can tell from eyeballing it; haven't had it pressure-tested. Turbo vacuum actuating solenoids, etc. were replaced about 5 months ago, and are functional (nice buzzing with the ignition on) from what I can tell. Frustration is running high at this point, and I'm getting close to stocking up on hot dogs and marshmallows for the inevitable bonfire. Something is screwy and I'm just not seeing it. Any help appreciated. Just a few thoughts, Have you checked your transmission fluid level? Low fluid level could be cause of slow start to pull? Transmission should be overfilled slightly, they seem to be happiest when overfilled by at least a half a quart or more. Also, A few have reported finding the screw on filter inside the pan broke off the plastic pipe nipple that it screws on to. Might be worth checking? The turbo at idle does not provide any boost. Have you checked the MAP sensor or replaced it? If not, I would replace it. It regulates the boost via the ECM.

Author:	casm [ Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hoping this isn't a sign of a failing fuel pump
WWDiesel wrote: :idea: Just a few thoughts, Have you checked your transmission fluid level? Low fluid level could be cause of slow start to pull? Yep, the level seems to be OK both hot and cold. Quote: Transmission should be overfilled slightly, they seem to be happiest when overfilled by at least a half a quart or more. Did not know that; will see about possibly adding some more. Out of curiosity, does the Suncoast TC increase the amount of fluid needed? It just occurred to me that I've been filling to the stock marks on the dipstick, but the original TC is no longer in there. Quote: Also, A few have reported finding the screw on filter inside the pan broke off the plastic pipe nipple that it screws on to. Might be worth checking? Will have to drop the pan in a couple of days, but that can also be checked. New filters (both the flat and spin-on) were provided along with all of the other parts for the transmission work, so it is possible that it was disturbed. Quote: The turbo at idle does not provide any boost. Good point. Forgot about that. Quote: Have you checked the MAP sensor or replaced it? If not, I would replace it. It regulates the boost via the ECM. Yes. Forgot to mention that it was cleaned yesterday as part of troubleshooting, but has not been replaced since I did the last one (which was the GM 55206797 sensor as opposed to the OEM one) a year or so ago. Apologies if I sound rushed; running behind schedule today.