Loss of power, no smoke, transmission doesn't shift - SOLVED

foxmiles · **Posted:** Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:27 pm

EDIT: SOLVED! Replaced TCM with an 03 Ram TCM

Ok, So I went to the junkyard yesterday, about an hour away, She drove beautifully there and back, only problem was a hesitation from a dead stop that I've been trying to figure out for some time, might even be normal. (feels like turbo lag, just putts along until it hits about 1800rpm then puffs a little puff of black smoke and takes off like a rocket).

So I get home, and mess with the boost solenoid, I have two, I disassembled one and cleaned some black gunk off one of the seals and it seems to have helped. I noticed that if I unplug the vacuum to the turbo actuator, put it in gear and step on (briefly of course) it I get a cloud of black smoke. (I'm worried I got a little carried away with it, but more on that later...)

I shut it off and swap out the EVIC I had for the one I found (out of an 04 Liberty with TPMS! Score!). I turn it on and it's reading 3 tire pressures, I'm not sure why, only think I can think is there are a stack of wheels I haven't put on yet (Definitely not off the same liberty as the EVIC). So I'm wondering to myself, is it possible they have sensors in them? So I back out of the garage and down the driveway a bit. Still shows 3 pressures. I don't know what's up with that, so I go to pull back up and she won't go. Just nothing there. WOT and she won't budge.

I try reverse, and it will go down the hill, but not up. So pop it into 4lo and away we go, bit sluggish, but I get her back into the garage. I got fuel on the way home, so that's my first thought, so I change the filter and bleed it, but nothing, no power at all. I spend a lot of time fiddling with the turbo stuff because that's what I was messing with last... Also swap out the MAP just in case. Finally determine that I get about 3-4psi boost and 6-8k on the fuel rail at wot in gear (about 1500rpm), and with the modulator hose off the turbo about 1400rpm, no boost and no smoke at all. Since I was getting smoke before I figured it must be fuel and tried all sorts of things, up to hooking up hoses and running it off a can of diesel. Same symptoms. I fiddle and fuss and decide this isn't a good test I'll drive it and see what happens. So she will barely go, but I get out and she will slowly accelerate up to 30ish (twisty back road, can't go much faster) I go to turn around and she'll barely pull away from a stop on the level, in a panic as I'm now blocking the road I pull it out of drive into low (Why I didn't think of this before?) and it's a lot better, I can move, and get back in the garage. No smoke from the tailpipe at all through all of this. I pull codes and I've got a p0700 and a p0605. I was thinking it was engine related, now I'm leaning transmission, could that derate the engine this bad? or do I have two problems? Keep in mind that this happened suddenly. I've worried about a bad turbo, broken rockers, and/or skipped timing, but wouldn't I get smoke with those? It seems like the ECM is simply not injecting fuel. It revs smoothly in neutral and builds some boost, and will reach 12+k on the fuel rail (not sure at what rpm). I swapped the TCM fues and relays with others the same size, no change.

It seems I'm stuck in some sort of limp mode, with a severely derated engine and a transmission that will only do 2nd and 3rd manually. (guessing on the gears) Good news it's in the garage and not hours away!

OK, what I'm hoping to get some help with:
1. Can the transmission cause a severe engine derate?
2. Would rockers, timing that jumped a tooth, or a bad turbo produce no smoke at all?
3. Does anyone have actual experience as to what scanner would read this vehicle well? (and possible elaborate on what it will do?) obviously I don't want to spend more that I need to, but I'm considering a Autel MS906BT, MP808bt, MP808ts, a Launch x431 V+. Now, someone said they used an Autel ML629 to reset a transmission code on a CRD, which is much, much cheaper. So if someone can confirm it will read and reset transmission codes on her I'll try it first! ($120 vs $500-1200)
4. is there any possible way the evic could have caused this?
5. Any other ideas? No power, no smoke, and not shifting.

I'll probably think of more, thanks in advance! Also, don't worry, I have another vehicle, it's just not my Libby :c

TKB4 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:13 pm

This is not in my comfortable level but just to let you know someone is reading your post.
I have seen posts where transmission problems or lack of communication with the TCM caused Limp Mode. so yes to number 1
I personally wouldn't suspect worn rockers this should happen gradually and would probably cause some black smoke but if broke some that could do it
A bad turbo should cause black smoke on acceleration
Timing jump would probably have to be 2 or 3 teeth but less than 5 or 6 and you could check timing with pins to rule this out
I have no idea about specific scanners but I would think at least a DRB III capable unit.
I don't think the EVIC caused it but I have no real reason to think that it would or wouldn't Guess you could try replacing the other one

The tire sensor tpms may only check every so many minutes like 15 or 30 minutes of operation but probably at startup too so I would say you may need to park it away from the stack of wheels and try it again and possibly leave it running or at least key on for a while.

I would check all the grounds and probably unplug the TCM and clean pins and replug it. You might want to check out this post:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=79424
I would also check the vacuum system closely as well as the mercedes (IAP) sensor connection on the lower air box lid and the intercooler boost hoses and mechanically block off EGR if not already done

I really think its too much of a coincidence that the transmission codes are showing up with the limp mode for it not to be related to that though it could well be connections and not actual transmission.

Hope this helps some and others may help much more.

iakj11 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:40 pm

My EVIC showed a lot of weird tire pressures after I put on different wheels and tires and had my old ones near where I park sometimes. It never caused me any limp mode issues though. The couple times that I've had similar limp modes to what you describe they were caused by a transmission malfunction that is common to our rigs. Id have to look it up to describe it more accurately, and it doesn't sound like the cause of your issue anyway. I mention this to say that he limp modes in those cases have always have gone away after a couple ignition start stop cycles. I'm assuming your limp mode is persisting after.multiple start/stops.

foxmiles · **Posted:** Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:57 pm

Thanks guys!
Yea, It's over my head too, but I think we're on the right track.

I'm now leaning very heavily to this being limp mode. Possibly by the transmission, Although it's possible that my test drive uphill in limp mode third caused those codes to set. I've cleared the codes (unhooking the battery) and none have come back yet (though I haven't driven it anywhere either)

It's funny you should mention the IAP sensor, I had all that apart Thursday to look at the turbo and at some point after reassembling it unplugged itself, just slid down 1/4in. Plugged it back in, but no codes and it's still in limp mode... I also tried unplugging it all the way to try to get a code, and nope, no code. It looks like the original Mercedes sensor. So I am *really* suspicious of that little sensor now!

EGR is gone, previous owner had it removed and flashed the GDE Eco-tune, so at least it's not that. He gave me the tuner too, I'm kinda tempted to flash it back to stock to see if I get codes for the IAP or anything. But I'll probably wait until I can get a proper scanner on it. I need transmission codes/data...

I'll wait on messing with the timing / rockers until I'm sure it's not electrical / sensor issues.

I really don't think it was the EVIC either (although I did take it back out just in case) I need to do more research on the transmission too, sounds likely that something's going on there...

EDIT: Update! Did more googling (mostly on this site) and it seems those 2 codes tend to come up with a bad TCM, or possibly wiring. I looked them up, $2-300, ouch. Found some people put a Dodge Ram TCM in theirs, looked them up and have a ebay one coming for $17, it's a cheap thing to try. Also ordered a IAP sensor off amazon. I may be able to borrow a pretty fancy scanner from work tomorrow, but I kinda want my own (and not risk breaking/loosing a scanner that cost about what my jeep did if I remember), we'll see.

TKB4 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:22 pm

I believe the GDE tune may disable the mercedes sensor code also.
I think its more likely the connections to the TCM or grounds than it is the TCM itself but for $17 its worth a try
I mentioned the mercedes sensor because the clip on the plug that holds it on tight is weak and known to break off and let connection loosen.

Billybob · **Posted:** Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:12 pm

Will an 04 EVIC work on a 05 CRD?
But you did say you unplugged it again!

You should have some codes stored...either TCM or PCM.

You need to backtrack on everything you replaced/unplugged etc. as the Jeep seemed to be reasonably OK before you climbed into it....we all tend to put more bugs onto the Jeep than what we had when we started out

foxmiles · **Posted:** Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:18 pm

I'll will try to remember to update about the EVIC once I have some actual experience with it if you want! I believe it will work perfectly for me. What I've found from my research is that any EVIC will work, from at least 02-05, even out of non-Liberties, but various functions may or may not work. What I've found so far:

Ideally you want one out of a 04-05 Liberty, otherwise the outdoor temperature doesn't work and the door ajar messages are wonky. I was running a non-TPMS 04 Grand Cherokee EVIC with Homelink and those were the issues I had. The 02's have Instant MPG readout, but it never worked on my CRD, guess the data wasn't even on the bus.

The big deal is TPMS, only the top of the line EVICs have it, and in 04 the sensors were read directly by the EVIC, so if your Jeep didn't come with TPMS sensors all you needed was an 04 EVIC, sensors, and aluminum wheels! (steels mess with the signal and the programming magnet doesn't work) In 05 the sensors changed and were read by pickups near the wheels somewhere and went through the BCM, so the 05 EVIC only works with TPMS if your Jeep came with them from the factory. (I think, mine didn't so the 04 Liberty TPMS EVIC has been my holy grail~)

I'm not sure about 06's at all.

Yea, I ended up ordering a (hopefully very nice) scanner, it should be in tomorrow. Launch x431 Pros Mini. We'll see what it can do!

Also yea... I've been going through the Jeep trying to find something out of place but nothing so far. I'm usually pretty good at figuring this stuff out, but I'm not finding anything. I've been told you learn more by breaking things than just disassembling/reassembling working units (I'm only afraid of breaking something that costs more than is reasonable to spend on my baby or something simple but time consuming a long way from home). Hopefully the scanner will point me in the right direction. From my research so far p0605 seems to be a TCM ROM error, which seems to point to failing flash or eeprom in the module. Could be a power/ground thing too.

Also the Ebay seller canceled my TCM order... Said they found it was damaged. Ah well, I bought it because it was really cheap. I'll see what the scanner says tomorrow, there are lots of Ram TCM's for $30-50.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:21 pm

Quote:

She drove beautifully there and back, only problem was a hesitation from a dead stop that I've been trying to figure out for some time, might even be normal. (feels like turbo lag, just putts along until it hits about 1800rpm then puffs a little puff of black smoke and takes off like a rocket).

I've experienced this.
Always on a hot day when the AC is working hard on full blast.
If I turn off the AC before accelerating, its normal with no hesitation or lag.

Quote:

p0700 and a p0605. I was thinking it was engine related, now I'm leaning transmission, could that derate the engine this bad?

IDK what a p0605 is.
But a p0700 is for the transmission.
When the transmission goes into "limp mode" all you get is 2nd and 3rd gears.
So, yeah, trying to start up a hill in 2nd gear would be a struggle.
Not all code scanners can read transmission codes.
And even fewer work reliably with the CRD.
I hope the new one you bought works well.

Quote:

EVIC

If you ask me, EVIC is a waste of time.
And TPMS is even more useless.
Lots of folks have had problems with it not reading all tires.
Is it the sensors in the wheel, or the receiver in the vehicle? Nobody knows???

I have a analog tire pressure gauge with an easy to read dial. Its worked great for over 20 years and has never let me down.

My wife's 06 CRD has an EVIC.
And NO TPMS! (thank god!!!)
MPG display- not accurate
Miles till empty- not accurate
Outside temperature and compass- mostly accurate but not necessary
Other features- IDK never paid any attention to them

foxmiles · **Posted:** Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:49 pm

Interesting! It has been very hot and humid here and the AC is working hard, so the hesitation might just be that.

New scanner got here and there was only a "P1684 - Battery was disconnected" code in the TCM (I had disconnected the battery several times while testing). It reads TCM data too, and it looked like it wasn't reading line pressure, so I checked the wires and they seemed good, pulled the sensor and tried to ohm it. Schematic shows a potentiometer between +5v and ground with the sense wire on the wiper. There was about 7kohms between ground and sense, and nothing connected to +5. So I went and bought a new sensor, and it's about the same... (shows some mohms to +5v, but it's apparently more complicated than a simple potentiometer. I put it in anyway and no change. I'll bring my backprobe pins home from work and mess with it more this weekend, I'd like to know how to test the thing (or if I got a bad sensor). I took it for a little drive up the road and the p0605 set in the TCM again (seems Torque might be reading the TCM after all) and a P0700 in the ECM.

P0605 is a TCM Internal (ROM) Error, so I've ordered another Ram TCM, hopefully it actually ships this time, should be here Saturday.
P0700 is an ECM code that informs you there's a code in the TCM...

Yea, I know the EVIC is a gimmick, TPMS too, but I'm just playing with it and having fun. Part of it is to see how many options I can cram into it that it didn't come with! I like fiddling with things, I wouldn't have bought a Liberty CRD otherwise~

flash7210 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:37 pm

Seems odd that the scan tool can read transmission sensor data when the TCM has a ROM error.

I hope a replacement TCM fixes it for you.
Or at least assists with the diagnosis.

foxmiles · **Posted:** Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:31 pm

Woooo! She runs again!

The Ram TCM arrived a day early, I put it in and she shifts again! I'm so relieved! Shift points seem different (as expected), I'll try it for a while and decided what to do from here! (If I like the new shift points or if I want to do something different)

I picked up a filter and gasket kit, probably going to drop the pan and change the fluid this weekend as long as I'm messing with the transmission anyway.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:00 pm

foxmiles wrote:

Woooo! She runs again!
The Ram TCM arrived a day early, I put it in and she shifts again! I'm so relieved! Shift points seem different (as expected), I'll try it for a while and decided what to do from here! (If I like the new shift points or if I want to do something different)
I picked up a filter and gasket kit, probably going to drop the pan and change the fluid this weekend as long as I'm messing with the transmission anyway.

That's Great News! :BANANA:

Be careful with that Ram TCM, I remember someone posting about there are some issues around allowing it to over-rev the little diesel due to the different way it's configured.
Some reading about "Retraining" the TCM for the diesel. You may want to do some search and reading on the matter on LOST?
Just be fully aware of it!
viewtopic.php?p=750779

Good move on the servicing of the tranny, don't forget to use only AFT+4 and overfill it just a little above the full mark.
These transmissions seem to perform and function better with a little extra fluid. I run mine 1/2 qt. over full mark.

foxmiles · **Posted:** Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:37 pm

Don't worry, I'll be careful! I'm a pretty easy driver anyway~

I'm going to look for these TCM's next time I go to the junk yard, from the sound of it they have multiple tables in them, so if I can find a newer one (maybe an 05 GC or something, don't know what all they used them on) it might get me back to the stock shift pattern. I could also see about having one flashed by GDE, or picking up a CRD TCM off ebay. The big deal with this was being a cheap thing to try, and it worked!

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:25 pm

foxmiles wrote:

Don't worry, I'll be careful! I'm a pretty easy driver anyway~
I'm going to look for these TCM's next time I go to the junk yard, from the sound of it they have multiple tables in them, so if I can find a newer one (maybe an 05 GC or something, don't know what all they used them on) it might get me back to the stock shift pattern. I could also see about having one flashed by GDE, or picking up a CRD TCM off ebay. The big deal with this was being a cheap thing to try, and it worked!

I have a "stock" TCM for a Jeep Liberty CRD if you need it. Bought it a few years ago with the intentions of sending it to GDE to get it re-flashed.
Ended up not needing it as I bought a TCM already flashed with a GDE ECO tune so now I have two spare TCM's.... :-)r

I am willing to part with one of them. PM or email me if interested.

TKB4 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:48 pm

I also have an extra Stock TCM. I am also very happy with the GDE TCM Eco Tune.

foxmiles · **Posted:** Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:03 pm

Thanks guys, I appreciate it!

I've only made one test drive so far, not real happy with the 1-2 shift (really winds out, 3k on a very gentle uphill takeoff), and seems to hunt a lot (very hilly around here), but I haven't driven enough for her to adapt yet. So I'll see how she does for a week or two. Plus that will let me bank a couple checks and see what's at the junk yard. If I'm not happy with it I'll get with you and buy one.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:21 pm

Yes. With the hemi TCM 2nd gear seems late. Lift the throttle a bit and it will shift a little sooner.
Whenever I’m driving below 45mph I keep OD-off to reduce some of the hunting.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:22 pm

Would it help to do a "Re-Learning Procedure" with the Ram TCM? Just curious, may help some others....

foxmiles · **Posted:** Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:41 pm

I've tried to do the slow learn as best I can and it's better (not sure if it's adapting or I am), but it doesn't fit my driving very well. If it was the only option it would be fine, but I was looking around on ebay and found a CRD TCM for $114, so I snapped it up. We'll see if it actually is the right one (numbers they gave match, but no pictures of the actual TCM) and if it works when it arrives (supposed to be Wednesday). I almost asked you for prices, but that seemed too low to pass up (I was expecting to pay $200-300), and I didn't want to insult you guys!

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:30 pm

foxmiles wrote:

I've tried to do the slow learn as best I can and it's better (not sure if it's adapting or I am), but it doesn't fit my driving very well. If it was the only option it would be fine, but I was looking around on ebay and found a CRD TCM for $114, so I snapped it up. We'll see if it actually is the right one (numbers they gave match, but no pictures of the actual TCM) and if it works when it arrives (supposed to be Wednesday). I almost asked you for prices, but that seemed too low to pass up (I was expecting to pay $200-300), and I didn't want to insult you guys!

I was only asking $75 plus shipping. :lol:

Loss of power, no smoke, transmission doesn't shift - SOLVED

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