No crank after repairs

Steve777 · **Joined:** Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:31 pm **Posts:** 284

So finished up the rocker/lister replacement, ARPs, GPs and thermostat on our first CRD, and re-assembled things to the point where I thought it should run a bit (TB cover still off, but coolant in place). Put a fully charged battery in, lights come on with the key, radio and lights seem to work but no crank when the key is turned to the start position. Nothing not even a click. Tried shifting to neutral to start but no difference.

The Jeep was starting just fine when I pulled it into the garage a month or so back. And I think all the electrical connections are back in the right spot (but you never know). No stored codes in the ECU (per Torque).

Obviously something changed, or got bumped, but I am not sure where to look first. Any thoughts/suggestions?

iakj11 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:09 pm

Could be just bad luck/coincidence and ignition actuator pin is broken. Try jumping the starter relay to get it to crank.

Other than that, just be sure your connections are all good and your battery is really ok...

TKB4 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:49 pm

I am assuming you mean that engine does not turn when turning the key. If the engine turns and it doesn't start I would check the number four injector connector and the rear fuel rail sensor they are interchangeable and it will crank but not start if reversed. The one to fuel rail sensor should be initially bundled for inch or two with the cam sensor.

If it doesn't turn over I would check the battery voltage and maybe a load test. Double check the connections and grounds including the connection at the alternator and starter. So really no new suggestions maybe move in and out of park again. Starter relay jump like already suggested.

Billybob · **Posted:** Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:03 pm

Yeah with ignition ON briefly jumper female pins 30 to 87 inside the empty Starter Relay socket.

This overrides the ignition switch, Actuator Pin Assembly, Park and Neutral interlocks etc.
Provided Fuse #8 40 amps under the hood is OK it should turn over provided the grounding lead from Negative battery lead to chassis is clean and firm as is the grounding strap grounding engine to chassis! :wink:

iakj11 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:33 pm

Billybob wrote:

This overrides the ignition switch, Actuator Pin Assembly, Park and Neutral interlocks etc.

Just make sure it is in Park or Neutral before standing in front and jumping! :grim:

Steve777 · **Joined:** Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:31 pm **Posts:** 284

Yes, the key turns, and has spring pressure from ON to Start and will snap back to on when you stop turning, but no starter when key is to Start.

Tried swapping the start relay, no diff. Opened up the case on the starter relay and manually pushed the arm down and the starter cranks just fine (didn't start, but wasn't expecting that as it will take some cranking to get all the air out of the injectors).

So it would appear the ECU doesn't like something and isn't telling the starter relay to close when the key is in start. When the key goes to on the usual dash lites come on. When I stand by the front relay/fuse box and someone turns the key to start I can hear a faint click from somewhere around there, but it is NOT the starter relay. Plenty of battery charge to run the starter if I manually push its relay arm in.

One clue, maybe, is that red round dash lite just to the right of the fuel gauge on the bottom of the dash. That comes on for the bulb check when the key is first turned to on, then it goes off like a lot of other lites after the bulb check, then it comes back on. I guessing this means the ECU is unhappy about something and is turning on the error lite and not commanding the starter relay to close. Anyone know the meaning of that light?

I can/will double check all my connections. I was pretty careful in labeling things and got everything back where it belongs (or so I think), but anything is possible. It would just be nice to get some clue as to where the problem may be and where to start digging...

iakj11 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:06 pm

Steve777 wrote:

One clue, maybe, is that red round dash lite just to the right of the fuel gauge on the bottom of the dash. That comes on for the bulb check when the key is first turned to on, then it goes off like a lot of other lites after the bulb check, then it comes back on. I guessing this means the ECU is unhappy about something and is turning on the error lite and not commanding the starter relay to close. Anyone know the meaning of that light?

I think you are on to something with the red light. Here's a post that says that the solid red light indicates an issue with the connection between the ASD (auto shut down?) relay and the ECM. It applies to a 2002 export CRD, though but maybe worth a quick read...
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=83672

TKB4 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:50 pm

The red light indicates that the skim system "thinks" you do not have the correct key to run the system. To try to reset it at least temporarily in a 2005 CRD you can disconnect the FCM/Gateway module just behind the right front headlight. I would also try leaving battery disconnected for a while and then when hook it back up make sure to hook up positive cable first. Here is a link to a recent video by Sir sam.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1mFYesTZDo

Worst come to worse GDE states they can disable the skim system

Steve777 · **Joined:** Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:31 pm **Posts:** 284

Looked at that ASD thread, and Sam's 05 fcm vid.

Unfortunately I have an 06, so some of that info is not applicable. But from what I could glean from them:

1. My red dot comes on during the lite test, goes out for a few secs, then comes back on solid. If it was complaining about the key ID, it would be flashing, and I'd be able to start the engine and run for 3 secs. So I don't think it is a key, since starting doesn't work and it does not flash... (Back when I first got my extra key, before it was programmed in, the car would start but die after 3 secs; so I don't think it is that)

2. Took a look at the ASD relay with its cover off. That relay closes when the key goes to on, and stays closed as long as the ign switch is on. It stays closed when the key is in start position (although it isn't starting). So unless someone tells me that isn't the right behavior for this relay, I think this is working. Just curious, what other symptoms would I see if it is the ASD? I suppose the relay could be closing but the ECM not sensing it, but I'll need to dig more into how to check for that...

3. I am wondering what other faults that solid red lite can indicate. If it isn't an unprogrammed key, and isn't the ASD circuit, what else could be going on here? Or perhaps I should be asking what other ASD things might cause the ECU to not let the engine start?

4. I did have the batt disconnected for a long time (month or more during the repairs), and did connect + first then -. But will try disconnecting it again overnight since I've got nothing to loose it seems.

5. I am beginning to wonder if it might be as simple as the park/neutral switch being dislodged or disconnected. Although I didn't specifically work on it, I suppose anything is possible. I've tried starting in N and P and moving in between to no effect. If one were to accidentally disconnect this switch, where would that have likely have happened?

6. And last question, I can still run the starter and crank the engine by pushing the starting relay closed. Easy to do, but I am wondering would it do any good or are the issues that are keeping the starter from working from the key likely to also mean that fuel won't be injected into the cyls too?

Steve777 · **Joined:** Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:31 pm **Posts:** 284

Well I need to update this with some news (mostly good):

I cleaned the contacts on the ASD relay (since I had it open), put its cover on. Then I ran my hand along the main wiring harnesses which were moved out of the way to pull the intake/cams. Then just for grins I tried starting it once more. Fired right up, ran smoothly. Kept refilling the coolant tank. and then shut it off when the batt started getting low (no serp belt on it yet).

It's great that that red light went away, and that the engine runs nicely after having it apart. But I am still concerned as to what it was that "fixed" everything. If it was the contacts on the ASD relay, that's OK. My concern of course is that there are one or more potential shorts/opens in the wiring harnesses and my moving my hand over them fixed the problem temporarily. I suppose if that is the case I will be finding out soon enough!

Anyway, Think I will declare victory for now and let the batt recharge over night. Will run it all the way up to op temp tomorrow and if it passes that test, will finish putting the engine back together.

Thanks for all the help on this one.

TKB4 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:14 pm

Not sure any of our help actually produced any results other than encouragement. I do believe there may have been a loose connection connection or short etc. To answer your other question that is mute for now: Yes whatever caused the ECM to prevent the cranking would also likely not allow the fuel injectors to inject fuel. So jumping the relay may well lead to a crank no start scenario.

No crank after repairs

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