Highest miles on stock head gasket and bolts

Diesel Dan · **Posted:** Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:32 pm

Just curious to see who has, or seen, the highest mileage on the original gasket/bolts.
I do believe mine is original with 155K, had a GDE eco tune installed around 75-80K miles.

Have already read lots of posts regarding CRD bolt vs studs too.

TKB4 · **Posted:** Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:55 pm

this is the most I have heard of but I am sure there are probably some more higher somewhere but probably not much higher.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=90123

Thats a record I don't think many here would want to try to break since its much easier to put ARP s in one by one before a head gasket failure than after, I have had 3 of 5 have head gasket leaks 2 leaked when I bought them (I knew about it thus lower price) the other two were changed prophylactically with a timing belt rocker job etc but they had 170,000 miles and 151,000 miles on them.

Diesel Dan · **Posted:** Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:08 pm

TKB4 wrote:

before a head gasket failure than after,

If I was worried about doing a head gasket I wouldn't have bought a 14 yr old aluminum headed diesel! :lol:

My bigger concern is the random exhaust valve delete hack.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:41 pm

Diesel Dan wrote:

Just curious to see who has, or seen, the highest mileage on the original gasket/bolts.
I do believe mine is original with 155K, had a GDE eco tune installed around 75-80K miles.
Have already read lots of posts regarding CRD bolt vs studs too.

I am pushing 160k still stock OEM gasket and bolts with no issues. I am running a Hot Yeti tune and no EGR since about 139k when I bought it.
I do plan to replace all exhaust valves and install ARP studs on the next timing belt change. :juggle:

TKB4 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:57 am

Sounds like a plan, and that way you can save a lot of time and trouble and maybe an engine. Yep you don't really feel like the CRD is yours until you have had the head off , either that or you are living in blissful ignorance :ROTFL:

dskater411 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:30 pm

im at 180k right now. I figure im on borrowed time but im passed wanting to put any more money into mine without knowing how much longer it may have

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:22 pm

Don't we all wish we had that crystal ball that would tell us how long we got before we have to replace the exhaust valves. :juggle:

I just hope mine makes it to the next timing belt change. :ROTFL:

My66dodge · **Posted:** Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:44 am

I have one I service at my shop with over 300, and my wife’s has over 250. I have talked it over with others and the culprit I believe for the occasional dropped valve is trashed rockers. When the rockers are trashed they can turn sideways and this could cause the valve to hang open, then one hit from the piston and it’s all over. Also when the rockers are trashed it can cause the lifter to overextend and come apart, the valve could get stuck and again bam it’s over. I recently did a class on the new Colorado diesel and they use the same rockers as they use to so I expect to see failure on them as well

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Diesel Dan · **Posted:** Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:30 pm

Did the 2 high mileage units have the rockers replaced?
It sounds reasonable but I'd think we'd have random dropped intake valves too?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:32 pm

Diesel Dan wrote:

Did the 2 high mileage units have the rockers replaced?
It sounds reasonable but I'd think we'd have random dropped intake valves too?

Good point!
Some still believe the exhaust valve failure is more due to EGT's they are exposed to more than any other single factor.
But everything at this point is still pure conjecture.... :5SHOTS:

My66dodge · **Posted:** Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:41 pm

The one over 300 I don’t know all the history of but my wife’s had the original rockers till about 240 I did them just to look at the originals and they were in great shape! The original owner unplugged the egr since about the beginning and so it never spot loaded the oil, since it’s egr and wrong oil that kills them. With regards to egr, we towed 14 last year with my dads crd and most trips were over snowqualimie pass so it was max towing, and it has 160 and is still running hard, he regularly tows the boat and it weighs 4500 with the trailer... no failure yet, but I use liquimoly lm2332 oil and lm2009 oil additive, and I maintain the crap out of it, all fluids biannually. LOF every 5k

TKB4 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:25 am

The one I had drop a valve at about 210,000 had the new style rockers in it for a few thousand miles no function EGR for over !30,000 miles and great maintenance even still had cross hatch pattern on liners when failed , the rockers were replaced just because I was doing head gasket. The original rockers I replaced were in very good condition only 4 showed slightly more than minimal play. In fact, I reused them in my project jeep along with other low mileage timing belt idlers etc just to make sure the block etc was ok before redoing everything with the good ( expensive stuff) if it was. I even used one of the new original set of head bolts I got with old head gasket set for now instead of ARP s I already had. BTW it may have a cracked block externally (coolant leak not totally tracked down yet).

joelukex4 · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:54 pm **Posts:** 386

Diesel Dan wrote:

TKB4 wrote:

before a head gasket failure than after,

If I was worried about doing a head gasket I wouldn't have bought a 14 yr old aluminum headed diesel! :lol:

My bigger concern is the random exhaust valve delete hack.

The new GM 1500 trucks will have an aluminum block with aluminum heads in their new Duramax diesel. We will see how those hold up.

Diesel Dan · **Posted:** Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:02 pm

joelukex4 wrote:

The new GM 1500 trucks will have an aluminum block with aluminum heads in their new Duramax diesel. We will see how those hold up.

Yeah, personally would have liked to see a CGI block.

Regarding the valves, I'm in the camp of crap valves/quality control.
Duramax has been running aluminum heads since 2001 and more owners beat the snot out of them than CRDs have ever been made and dropped valves aren't an issue. Cracked pistons, bent rods and even broke cranks but not valves.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:07 pm

The result of several tens of thousands of dollars worth of metallurgy testing and failure analysis equipment that was very generously donated to the group.... Is that the alloy in the exhaust valves reaches a fatigue point around 300 billion cycles and the alloy just lets go.

This is not due to any physical contact issues (although that certainly could be a cause for concern in any vehicle that it does happen in) and the only extenuating circumstance that cannot be controlled for is cylinder temperature. The valve alloy shows structure changes when exposed repeatedly to near-1200-degree temperatures, and this can contribute to the eventual weakening and failure.

Higher boost levels or reduced fueling can offer benefits, but the elimination of EGR (that reduces the air charge and richens the mix) is the single easiest and fastest way to offer some protection to the engine. Ultimately unless we know the entire history of a vehicle (which is rare!) the plan should be for valve replacement at or near 200k, as this is very near the peak of reported failures thus far.

300 billion cycles roughly translates to about 200k miles, as we lack hour metering on this engine it is difficult to know precise cycle life for a given engine. Higher cycle life will happen on engines with longer idle times or low speed / city operations versus more highway miles.

Diesel Dan · **Posted:** Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:45 am

geordi wrote:

The result of several tens of thousands of dollars worth of metallurgy testing and failure analysis equipment that was very generously donated to the group.... Is that the alloy in the exhaust valves reaches a fatigue point around 300 billion cycles and the alloy just lets go.

Many thanks!

Has it been determined if the new valves are made to the same specs or have they been improved?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:32 pm

Removing the EGR system from this engine is a must if you want engine longevity!
Controlling EGT's leaving the combustion chamber may be the single most beneficial factor beyond EGR removal in prolonging exhaust valve cyclic life in these engines.
As stated, over fueling and under boosting both can cause very high EGTs. MAP and all boost related items, turbo, turbo control, boost hoses, CAC (innercooler), etc. needs to be in very good operating condition.
Prolonged 1200 or greater EGT's can be very detrimental to engine parts. :grim:

Diesel Dan · **Posted:** Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:03 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

Removing the EGR system from this engine is a must if you want engine longevity!
Controlling EGT's leaving the combustion chamber may be the single most beneficial factor beyond EGR removal in prolonging exhaust valve cyclic life in these engines.
As stated, over fueling and under boosting both can cause very high EGTs. MAP and all boost related items, turbo, turbo control, boost hoses, CAC (innercooler), etc. needs to be in very good operating condition.
Prolonged 1200 or greater EGT's can be very detrimental to engine parts. :grim:

Just excuses for sub-par exhaust valves.
GM, Ford, Cummins, Navistar etc have million mile trucks with SCR,DPF, EGR that aren't known for dropping exhaust valves.
That's why I'm curious if VMI changed material composition of the replacement valves.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:45 pm

Diesel Dan wrote:

Just excuses for sub-par exhaust valves.
GM, Ford, Cummins, Navistar etc have million mile trucks with SCR,DPF, EGR that aren't known for dropping exhaust valves.
That's why I'm curious if VMI changed material composition of the replacement valves.

That's a very good question that most would love to know the answer from VMI!
But unfortunately I doubt we will ever be able to learn that information or have a definitive answer to that question. :banghead:

But for the time being, doing whatever a person can to help limit the exposure of the exhaust valves to any possible detrimental influences that can cause their failure would be a very worthwhile endeavor by an owner.

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:42 pm

To answer your question Dan - The information I have currently suggests that NO, they have not changed a single thing about the valves. As I said earlier, I also have been told (cannot verify with personal knowledge on this or any change in the valve quality) that the newer engines from VM are still using the same valves. This might explain why there have been reports of the Ram trucks dropping valves with as little as 15k miles on them - MUCH more EGR use in those newer engines.

By itself, SCR or DEF should not have any impact on the performance of a valve, as they happen outside of the engine. I have no problem with treatment of the exhaust as a separate entity and external to the engine. It is the changes / controls inside the engine that have the most detrimental effect to the engine life.

Highest miles on stock head gasket and bolts

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