Well, here I go... pulling the motor.

thesameguy · **Joined:** Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:24 pm **Posts:** 652

Thanks, but I am really just looking for initial torque specs.

Diesel Dan · **Posted:** Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:01 pm

thesameguy wrote:

Thanks, but I am really just looking for initial torque specs.

And a extremely important spec at that.

Put TTY bolts in my Dmax when I did the head gaskets.
Really wished I had a digital angle meter for that job!

thesameguy · **Joined:** Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:24 pm **Posts:** 652

Yeah, got one of those... enough TTY jobs these days, and my old "analog" tool was bulky and inconvenient. Never let me down, but digital is much faster and gives you the satisfaction of a final torque value. :pepper:

Mountainman · **Posted:** Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:06 pm

thesameguy wrote:

Yeah, got one of those... enough TTY jobs these days, and my old "analog" tool was bulky and inconvenient. Never let me down, but digital is much faster and gives you the satisfaction of a final torque value. :pepper:

Now that makes sense! Mind passing along a digital wrench model name worth owning?

The initial torque is 30nm, if someone hasn't already posted that. That's directly from Elring

thesameguy · **Joined:** Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:24 pm **Posts:** 652

I went in on this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Summit-Tools-12- ... 202&sr=8-5

I believe it's the same as a tool that costs nearly twice as much:

http://www.protoindustrial.com/_Layouts ... 954dec7659

I believe both of these are made by Eclatorq, and Stanley just charges an extra $100.

The thing to remember is that these adapters still have a range, and you cannot exceed the range without damaging the tool, just like any torque wrench. The 250 lb ft max value covers everything I am going to use it for (even 60 lb ft + 90 degrees on a Saab, or 22 lb ft + 150 degrees on the CRD). The only think I don't use it on is some axle nuts (the XR gets up to 220 lb ft IIRC, too close for comfort!), but for those those onesies or twosies I don't mind ye olde angle gauge or big torque wrench.

https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-28100-Torq ... 084&sr=8-2

It's pretty nice in that after X degrees you can play back the torque application.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:51 pm

Many thanks

Diesel Dan · **Posted:** Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:29 pm

thesameguy wrote:

I believe both of these are made by Eclatorq, and Stanley just charges an extra $100.

Or it could be a Chinese knockoff.
Hard to say just by the looks.

But yeah, would rather of had that when working on the Dmax!

Mountainman · **Posted:** Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:35 pm

I ended up getting the $30 mechanical one, as it's much better than the one I have that has a 90 degree arm that never really works like it should to twist the dial.

If I had to use one daily I'd try the digital though, but I use ARP 99%, and the rods are easy to rotate 60 degrees, as there are 6 splines on the head of the bolt...

thesameguy · **Joined:** Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:24 pm **Posts:** 652

Diesel Dan wrote:

Or it could be a Chinese knockoff.

I'm gonna say not likely. Everything from the part number to the instruction sheet is identical with the Summit tool. Eclatorq doesn't have a presence in the US (they're Taiwanese) so they OE to other brands. I do a lot of research before I drop a couple hundred bucks on a tool.

Mountainman wrote:

I ended up getting the $30 mechanical one, as it's much better than the one I have that has a 90 degree arm that never really works like it should to twist the dial.

If I had to use one daily I'd try the digital though, but I use ARP 99%, and the rods are easy to rotate 60 degrees, as there are 6 splines on the head of the bolt...

I have zero complaints about that Lisle tool, it's simple and it works. I find myself doing 2-3 head gaskets a year (can't say no to a project!) and I just got frustrated switching back and forth between torque wrench and breaker bar when tightening a dozen+ bolts. For some jobs - like putting a motor in - I can program a few dozen torque values ahead of time and just iterate through them, which saves a bunch of button pushing. It's pretty lazy, but if it gets me to beer faster I'm generally a fan.

thesameguy · **Joined:** Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:24 pm **Posts:** 652

I'm [finally] planning on putting the head on in the next day or two... I'm taking Thanksgiving off from the world!

Block on this motor looks great, you can still see the crosshatching on the cylinder liners:

Can't really ask for more from a 180,000 mile old motor. Really makes angry at the dumb old leak... there is no indication that this motor wouldn't go another 100k without being torn down. Of course, if I hadn't opened everything up, I can be guaranteed it would totally explode the second I turned the key. Thank you Mr. Murphy!

Diesel Dan · **Posted:** Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:01 pm

thesameguy wrote:

Diesel Dan wrote:

Or it could be a Chinese knockoff.

I'm gonna say not likely. Everything from the part number to the instruction sheet is identical with the Summit tool. Eclatorq doesn't have a presence in the US (they're Taiwanese) so they OE to other brands. I do a lot of research before I drop a couple hundred bucks on a tool.

Still need to go through a know vendor.
Years ago there was an interview with an exec from Robinair (HVAC supplier). Customer called with a complaint that their brand new R134a gauges did not work. Part was sent to Robinair and it 100% looked like their product, even the U/L stamp on the box. Upon disassembly is where they found it was a CKO. It looked legit but didn't work.

Amazon has been known for CKO stuff being listed. Even before Amazon I recall CKO A/C delco brake pads with the friction material being compressed saw dust, oil filters with regular paper inside the can, etc. Basically if it was more than 40% less than approved vendors...be wary.

thesameguy · **Joined:** Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:24 pm **Posts:** 652

It's worked great for me for several years, so at this point I'm not so worried about it.

thesameguy · **Joined:** Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:24 pm **Posts:** 652

I only learn one way: The hard way.

That aside, I thought folks might find this interesting...

There are the torque stages on the cylinder head:

1. Torque inside bolts 75*:
https://youtu.be/vwNNu3HHrBA

2. Torque outside bolts 50*:
https://youtu.be/toeo3u2Umiw

3. Torque inside bolts an additional 75*:
https://youtu.be/nOHDr8FSbDk

4. Torque outside bolts an additional 75*:
https://youtu.be/1VKcKCs7Ito

FWIW, there's an up to 10% variance from bolt to bolt as the head is cinched down, illustrating really conclusively why TTY bolts are turned in degrees and not a specific torque value.

You can see the degree setting, then the final actual torque value.

Although not cheap. this tool really helps you rocket through repetitive TTY fastening and you have high confidence the result is consistent.

krb · **Posted:** Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:17 am

Sameguy, I'm at the same stage as you. Except my motor is still in the vehicle. I have a week and a half off work and weather is supposed to be reasonable so I hope to have it running again soon. Problem is it's been over a year or so and I may have trouble remembering how it all came apart. But I did take pictures and I have my dad's to reference.

Tightened down my head yesterday and started on the exhaust manifold when I dropped one of those nuts - and can't find it anywhere...

I have a parts gasser and will see if I can find a similar nut from that vehicle.

Good luck and keep us posted.

thesameguy · **Joined:** Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:24 pm **Posts:** 652

You really should always replace the studs and nuts on the manifold with new... IMO that's absolutely critical of turbo cars, probably especially diesels with all the NVH. That hardware is very common - you can get it at any VW or Ford dealership, for instance.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:22 pm

thesameguy wrote:

You really should always replace the studs and nuts on the manifold with new... IMO that's absolutely critical of turbo cars, probably especially diesels with all the NVH. That hardware is very common - you can get it at any VW or Ford dealership, for instance.

My local Ace Hardware store actually stocks some good quality metric bolts and studs. I have bought quite a few 8mm x 1.25 nuts, bolts, and studs from them. They even have some 8mm locknuts.

layback40 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:00 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

My local Ace Hardware store actually stocks some good quality metric bolts and studs. I have bought quite a few 8mm x 1.25 nuts, bolts, and studs from them. They even have some 8mm locknuts.

For the benefit of others (WW you know better), never use nylock locknuts any place that gets hot. If you need locknuts for applications on engines, use spring type lock washers or toothed base nuts.

thesameguy · **Joined:** Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:24 pm **Posts:** 652

VERY true. Ideally you want to use deformed thread or flex top nuts, copper coated steel. That's what you'd get from Ford or VW (or most anywhere) and that's what ID Parts supplies. They go on and stay put... but generally come back off when you ask nicely... that's what the copper coating gets you.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:46 pm

Nylon lock nuts are fine as long as you are not using them on high temperature exhaust parts.
You can also make deformed lock nuts simply by taking regular nuts, placing them flat on an anvil and striking them lightly a few times with a hammer. Done it many times over the past 50 years or so.
Just don't get to carried away with the striking part, little bit goes a long way, use some common sense.
You can always use Loctite 272 Red High Temperature Threadlocker as well.

krb · **Posted:** Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:32 am

WWDiesel wrote:

thesameguy wrote:

You really should always replace the studs and nuts on the manifold with new... IMO that's absolutely critical of turbo cars, probably especially diesels with all the NVH. That hardware is very common - you can get it at any VW or Ford dealership, for instance.

My local Ace Hardware store actually stocks some good quality metric bolts and studs. I have bought quite a few 8mm x 1.25 nuts, bolts, and studs from them. They even have some 8mm locknuts.

That's my plan. Run to town today and visit the Ace Hardware store for some nuts and a couple studs to guide the intake on.

Hadn't considered replacing the exhaust studs but probably a good idea thesameguy. I was pleasantly surprised how easy it came apart after 14 years of heat cycles.

I did that to my 12 valve Cummins when I replaced the head gasket several years ago, but it had bolts originally and I switched it to studs.

I have some copper anti-seize I'm considering using but then that would affect the torque values I would think?

Well, here I go... pulling the motor.

Who is online