To part, or not to part...

Dmon · **Joined:** Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:28 am **Posts:** 12

I got the bad news today, 2005 CRD with 235k, the engine is done.
"Main bearing, or con rod, something substatial"
the replace estimate is $6k, which is just not something I can stomach. Already got a new Jeep when this was getting a little unreliable. The transmission was rebuilt 20k ago and everything else aside from brakes seems fine.

So the question becomes, part it out, or sell to someone whole. I don't have that much time, but some, and winter is coming, anyone have experience? I don't need to maximize my money out of it, just don't want to have it hauled to the scrapper.

Any and all experiences and comments welcome.
It is located in Raleigh NC if that makes any difference.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:50 pm

How much, condition of vehicle, pictures, etc. all might help if you post.
I have a spare engine if you want to go that route? :juggle:

Dmon · **Joined:** Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:28 am **Posts:** 12

In General, it's clean, previous owners were all very meticulous, I've had it for 3 years, and have kept good maintenance, but not the bi-yearly waxing it was getting.
It's a NC car it't whole life so no rust, no major dings, paint still very good.
Wet Okole seat covers, clean cloth interior,
front shaft bearings replaced recently.
less than 2k miles on alternator, trans cooler (oem) and radiator.
Has all block offs done and EGR delete.
Has green diesel tune
Up to when it stopped working, I was planning to drive it up to Vermont for vacation.
So all in all I'd have to say it's in good shape for a 14 year old car.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:59 am

What was the scenario around the failure - how did it stop, and please be as specific as possible. The number of techs that are ACTUALLY familiar with this engine is a very low number - like less than 10 in the entire USA. I'm the traveling CRD tech and can confidently say I'm the most experienced with this engine in the USA, I've worked on over 100 of them now. Main bearing / connecting rod bearing failures are not unheard of, but are (thankfully) exceedingly rare.

Does the engine still turn? Any noises? So how did it fail?

Dmon · **Joined:** Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:28 am **Posts:** 12

My son was driving to work, turned into parking lot and the engine suddenly started running extremely roughly, had enough power to limp to closest parking spot.
Towed to my house, engine still ran, had enough juice to move 10' to top of my driveway, coasted to parking spot.

It didnt seem to me like a case of a major internal failure, since it still ran, which I would think would not be possible if it lost a con rod, bearing or crank.

I have a video somewhere, I can post to youtube tonight.

Dmon · **Joined:** Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:28 am **Posts:** 12

here is a short video of what it sounds like.

https://youtu.be/mbyu8PPHrGE

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:46 pm

You may have dropped an exhaust valve based on sound. Not good! :grim:

Only way to diagnose for sure is to pull intake and / or head!
Pulling injectors and examining tips of them may give you some indication.
Could also just be some rockers have given up with that high of mileage, but pulling intake is the only way to find out for sure. :juggle:

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:38 am

I'm going to have to agree with WW here, that video sounds like it dropped a valve or certainly is having bad combustion. The uneven idle is the key here, bearings won't affect the idle they will just add noise. This engine is struggling to stay running, so it is not breathing properly.

I do think that to make an informed decision, the top needs to be pulled so you can at least see the injectors - and if they aren't informative, then pull the valve cover and head so you can see what's really going on. There is ZERO chance that any shop could make an accurate diagnosis without taking the engine past the point of being able to start, so I'm pretty confident in saying that the shop that diagnosed "rod or main bearings" doesn't have the first clue what they were looking at.

If you pull the injectors and the tip of one is mangled, that would be an indication that a valve dropped in that cylinder. That the engine still runs / rotates is a VERY GOOD thing, but to rebuild it will still require pulling the motor so that the piston and sleeve can be replaced. I'm on a CRD road trip right now, heading from Denver to Iowa over the next couple days. If you'd like my assistance in tearing the motor down (needed pretty much no matter what) I'd be happy to discuss your options with you at length. Just email me and we can go from there.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:42 pm

Bad combustion and very uneven running along with the popping noise indicates it has either dropped a valve or has some failed rocker arms and some valves are not being operated.
Pulling the injectors and examining the tips of them that are exposed to the internals of the cylinder should tell you if there is internal damage within the combustion chamber like a dropped valve. :juggle:

If you pull the injectors, and all tips look good, it is time to pull intake/valve cover and inspect rockers. If you find failed rockers you have found the problem.
And it is repairable!

If you pull the intake/valve cover and find one valve stem setting up much higher than the rest, that is an indication of a dropped or broken valve and the head will have to come off to assess all the internal damage to the head, piston, and piston liner. No way to tell from the outside how bad the damage is and if it is financially feasible to repair until you pull the head and inspect!

But like geordi said, whoever told you it was a bearing problem, has no idea what they are talking about. Connecting Rod and main bearing failures act a whole different way and make a totally different sound and normally they never affect the running of the engine unless it slings a rod out the side of the block. They make a loud "Knocking" noise, not a popping noise.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:16 pm

Yeah... Rod damage sounds like this: CRD-bottom-end-2.mp4

That video's subject ended soon after with a window in the block, punched out by the #4 rod end as it was leaving rather violently. The block was not repairable.
It did this at IDLE, so take that for what it provides: Severe engine damage can happen even at the lowest of speeds.

Pulling the injectors won't be too much work right now, and if they all come out intact (number them to keep them in order, it does matter)... Then likely this is just rockers. I have not yet seen a valve failure that did not also chew up the end of an injector. So if they are damaged, then you will have much more information than you have currently, without much more than an hour or two of work.

Dmon · **Joined:** Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:28 am **Posts:** 12

Ok, sounds good.
I'm super busy at work right now and probably won't be able to get to it myself anytime soon, but sounds like the shop I have it at is not going to be much help.

Appreciate the analysis, kind of jives with what I had understood, but I'm still learning on the land based diesels.. on a boat I'd be fine... :-)

If anyone knows of any good repair possibilities in central North Carolina, let me know.
Thanks!

mrhemi · **Joined:** Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:46 am **Posts:** 180

One of my 2006's sounded just like that and could still be driven, barely. never lost oil pressure. Threw a "Misfire Cylinder #1" code. Turned out to be a broken rocker and a bunch more worn out. This was on a well maintained, 85000 mile, one owner trade in, however, it was still stock, meaning functional EGR. Did the timing belt change, new rockers, HDS thermostat, GDE tune (with EGR blanks) and good as new or better. So, open it up and take a look.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:45 pm

Dmon wrote:

Ok, sounds good.
I'm super busy at work right now and probably won't be able to get to it myself anytime soon, but sounds like the shop I have it at is not going to be much help.

Appreciate the analysis, kind of jives with what I had understood, but I'm still learning on the land based diesels.. on a boat I'd be fine... :-)

If anyone knows of any good repair possibilities in central North Carolina, let me know.
Thanks!

Well.... I'm the traveling CRD tech, this is the ONLY vehicle I work on and I've seen more than 100 of them now. I don't think you need a full engine swap, but I can't commit and say I could assist with your issue until we know more. I'm happy to help with the disassembly and diagnosis, but pulling an engine in someone's driveway is a bit more than I'm set up for. I'm sure you understand. I'm actually on a CRD road trip right now, and heading back East. If you'd like me to stop by and pull the injectors / top end, it wouldn't be duplicating any work no matter what is discovered. Just LMK and we can go from there. At least then you would know what happened and could formulate a plan.

To part, or not to part...

Who is online