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 Post subject: EPA Shutting down Diesel Turners and issuing hefty fines!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:26 am 
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HEADS UP, THIS IS NOT GOOD NEWS!!! :shock: :banghead: :furious:
In case you have not heard, this is what is going on in the diesel tuning world.

Performance Diesel was hit with a 1.1 Million dollar fine by the EPA for diesel tuning.
EPA is going after everyone.
Guess they are going to make an example out of them for starters and then go after everyone else?
This is probably why GDE has shut down all their sales.
Still don't know if they got hit with a fine or not, but most likely are on the EPA's hit list.
Lots of companies who sale diesel tuning are really worried right now.

Here is the EPA release on the Performance Diesel fine:
Settlement with EPA and the Department of Justice Prohibits Performance Diesel, Inc. from Selling Diesel Engine Defeat Devices
https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/settle ... ing-diesel

EPA release on stopping diesel tuning:
National Compliance Initiative: Stopping Aftermarket Defeat Devices for Vehicles and Engines
https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/nationa ... nd-engines

Here are a few YouTube videos that explains what is happening:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUvbBO4ZP-4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ-6rNs6eZA

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 Post subject: Re: EPA Shutting down Diesel Turners and issuing hefty fines
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:19 am 
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Well all those actors were going to leave the USA if Trump won. It looks like there maybe some diesel tuners headed the same way. In this day & age its going to be very hard to stop you guys making a purchase off shore. I am sure there are plenty of people not in the USA happy to purchase technology & then do a bit of tuning. There is a KJ CRD for sale in Australia at the moment that GDE used to do development work on as an export model. The owner is a true gentleman. I wonder if the US EPA is going to be after him for aiding & abetting? Maybe time to head for Equador? :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :goink:

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 Post subject: Re: EPA Shutting down Diesel Turners and issuing hefty fines
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:52 am 
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I warned some people many years ago to sure they CYA'd themselves and their businesses with legal jargon, etc, but it doesn't really matter if the Feds come after you.

What we had all better hope is that the Feds aren't trying to get the companies to turn over lists of all their customers. :furious:

PS - 'official company document retention policy' sounds better than 'the dog ate my files'

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 Post subject: Re: EPA Shutting down Diesel Turners and issuing hefty fines
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:11 am 
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Some of this may be related to moves to introduce a uniform 50-State emissions standard. Given the timing, it seems reasonable to suspect that it's an equality-of-enforcement move intended to basically start scaring anyone doing ECU tuning (gas, diesel, turnip squeezings, whatever) into compliance before that hits.

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 Post subject: Re: EPA Shutting down Diesel Turners and issuing hefty fines
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:30 am 
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CGman wrote:
I warned some people many years ago to sure they CYA'd themselves and their businesses with legal jargon, etc, but it doesn't really matter if the Feds come after you.
What we had all better hope is that the Feds aren't trying to get the companies to turn over lists of all their customers. :furious:

That part of it is really a scary thought! Think of all the people who have performed deletes and modes of various kinds on their vehicles.
Are they going to try and come after the individual owner of each vehicle. :frankie:

If the EPA had it their way, everyone would be ridding around in an electric vehicle! Such hypocrites, do they not realize what is burned to generate electricity! :furious:

Note: EPA makes lots of money through fines and penalties for non-compliance. So all these latest attacks may simply be them finding new cash cows.

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Last edited by WWDiesel on Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: EPA Shutting down Diesel Turners and issuing hefty fines
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:55 am 
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Quoting the EPA: "This National Compliance Initiative will focus on stopping the manufacture, sale, and installation of defeat devices on vehicles and engines used on public roads as well as on nonroad vehicles and engines."

Oh goody, they are finally going after those millions upon millions of dirty off-road vehicles climbing all over the countryside and making the air black.
Yeah... The percentage of "off road" engines is insignificant next to actual INDUSTRY that operate in fixed locations pumping out crap daily. They never look at the industrial sources at all, b/c they have the ability to buy off the inspectors.

A 1.1 million dollar fine for 5500 alleged sales... That's only a $200 fine per sale. Doesn't sound like much, but I'd bet it will pretty much close down Performance Diesel. The thing is, they weren't selling to enthusiasts like us, they were selling to heavy trucks - class 8 semis and the like. The EPA has been going after the semi market for a while now.

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 Post subject: Re: EPA Shutting down Diesel Turners and issuing hefty fines
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:25 pm 
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Currently there is a fight between the EPA and SEMA, NHRA, SCCA, and others over the regulation of "off-highway" vehicles (a.k.a race cars).
That is, if you buy a new 2019 Mustang GT500, never register it and only drive it on a race track, then it should not have to meet any kind emissions control standards. Therefore all emissions controls can be removed.
Lots automotive performance parts are sold as "off-highway" use only.
While others are sold as "50-state legal."
Many automotive performance enthusiasts get away with using the off-highway parts because their state or county doesn't require emissions testing. Although it is technically still illegal to remove any emissions control device, in most cases nobody is looking.

Did all those diesel tuners selling the DPF delete kits advertise their parts as for "off-highway use only." If so, then that should be enough to cover thier butts.
On the other hand, its no secret that people are installing these parts on their trucks and driving them on state and federal highways. And the fact that many of them are "rolling coal" makes it plainly obvious. And then the stickers on the back window. And... you get the picture.

You'd think that with the current administration trying ease up on EPA requirements for new cars, making new cars cheaper to build and more affordable, thereby increasing profits for the auto manufacurers...
You'd think that with the current administration trying to fight California over its uniquire pollution control requirements...
You'd think that with the current administration lowering standards for air and water pollution from industries...
You'd think that that the loud roar of a performance engine, visibly spewing dark clouds of freedom, would be a symbol of what makes America great!

I just dont get it
:5SHOTS:

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 Post subject: Re: EPA Shutting down Diesel Turners and issuing hefty fines
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:29 pm 
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If they really are going to be required to comply with CARB (i.e. "50-state" compliance), that alone would bankrupt a small tuning company. CARB extorts gobs of money from any company making modifications of anything from the catalytic converter and upstream as part of their Executive Order issuance program. I am not sure how long it takes to test products either (I strongly suspect they take a very long time). I know of some small automotive engineering companies that completely stopped doing business with California residents in the past due to the amount of money required to continue licensing new products and engine modifications with CARB. It was easier and netted them more money to simply discontinue doing business with California residents, in spite of the huge number of cars and owners that tinker in California.

I am glad that I forestalled doing anything to the EGR on my CRD - waiting for the other shoe to drop in these small company EPA busts, since they typically collected the VIN for the tunes.


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 Post subject: Re: EPA Shutting down Diesel Turners and issuing hefty fines
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:21 pm 
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enzinn wrote:
If they really are going to be required to comply with CARB (i.e. "50-state" compliance), that alone would bankrupt a small tuning company. CARB extorts gobs of money from any company making modifications of anything from the catalytic converter and upstream as part of their Executive Order issuance program. I am not sure how long it takes to test products either (I strongly suspect they take a very long time). I know of some small automotive engineering companies that completely stopped doing business with California residents in the past due to the amount of money required to continue licensing new products and engine modifications with CARB. It was easier and netted them more money to simply discontinue doing business with California residents, in spite of the huge number of cars and owners that tinker in California.

I am glad that I forestalled doing anything to the EGR on my CRD - waiting for the other shoe to drop in these small company EPA busts, since they typically collected the VIN for the tunes.

This is why performing or installing a tune yourself (DIY) really makes a lot of sense since there is NO paper trail and the EPA has no way of knowing, tracking, or tracing.
So glad that many have went the DIY route and don't have to sit around worrying about the EPA coming after them like ones who went through commercial turners who has their name and VIN number all on file and may have to turn them over to the EPA lawyers.
D*** the EPA!

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Last edited by WWDiesel on Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: EPA Shutting down Diesel Turners and issuing hefty fines
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:18 pm 
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This is all part and parcel to a$$holes that voted for Obammy and his EPA wrecking crew (Economic Punishment Agency). The EPA must get reigned in. My little CRD had so many problems fixed with aftermarket tuning that i'd probably not own it if it weren't for the driving improvements they made. The OEMs are being hamstrung by the EPA and we are the ones that get to fork over the R&D time and money.

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 Post subject: Re: EPA Shutting down Diesel Turners and issuing hefty fines
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:39 pm 
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Are the EPA going to come after sites like this one that have details on how to free tune? May be time to copy a lot of stuff to a group that is outside the USA !

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 Post subject: Re: EPA Shutting down Diesel Turners and issuing hefty fines
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:21 pm 
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The sad part is as I said before The GDE tunes are better for the environment than stock tunes and do pass emissions tests in the few I know personally about . Still makes me wonder if tunes that would pass emissions could still be sold if they didn't delete EGR s etc. Maybe the manufacturers should contract with GDE :P

Guess its a good thing the two engines I had problems with were the ones with the GDE tunes eh !

Now what about using a non OME turbo how is it going to get tuned ? What about when the parts etc either are not made anymore and no manufacture support available? Also year of manufacture and restrictions at that time may have something to do with it.
Also it would be pretty hard to stop the ORM.

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 Post subject: Re: EPA Shutting down Diesel Turners and issuing hefty fines
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:11 pm 
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TKB4 wrote:
The sad part is as I said before The GDE tunes are better for the environment than stock tunes and do pass emissions tests in the few I know personally about . Still makes me wonder if tunes that would pass emissions could still be sold if they didn't delete EGR s etc. Maybe the manufacturers should contract with GDE :P
Guess its a good thing the two engines I had problems with were the ones with the GDE tunes eh !
Now what about using a non OME turbo how is it going to get tuned ? What about when the parts etc either are not made anymore and no manufacture support available? Also year of manufacture and restrictions at that time may have something to do with it.
Also it would be pretty hard to stop the ORM.

They (EPA) can never stop the do-it-yourself-ers, as they have no way of knowing who does what. No paper trail like the commercial tuners where money is involved and records kept. Sort of like gun sales between individuals; they don't know what they don't know! :BANANA:
They (EPA) are simply going after all the people in the business (low hanging fruit) where they can sequester their business records and use them as evidence against them for levying large fines for financial gain. As usual, it's all about the money! The EPA is always looking for new ways to fund their cash cows.

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Last edited by WWDiesel on Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: EPA Shutting down Diesel Turners and issuing hefty fines
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:21 am 
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layback40 wrote:
Are the EPA going to come after sites like this one that have details on how to free tune? May be time to copy a lot of stuff to a group that is outside the USA !

Not that I've heard (AT this time), but rumor has it, they have been using sites like this to identify tuners and suppliers of "offroad only parts" that they are finding on road-licensed vehicles in areas where they monitor smog checks. I've also heard they have people monitoring the major diesel-info sites like this one to identify what diesel mods to look for. I also agree that GDE tunes and some of the free tunes have cleaner exhaust emissions than the OEM tunes, but they don't care about that. It's about money, and the ways they have built into the system to make it.

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 Post subject: Re: EPA Shutting down Diesel Turners and issuing hefty fines
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:33 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: EPA Shutting down Diesel Turners and issuing hefty fines
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:56 pm 
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TKB4 wrote:
Now what about using a non OME turbo how is it going to get tuned ? What about when the parts etc either are not made anymore and no manufacture support available? Also year of manufacture and restrictions at that time may have something to do with it.
Also it would be pretty hard to stop the ORM.


In California you would fail the visual test by having a non-OME turbo.

If the parts are not made, California might try and "referee" the situation, but they usually end up telling you that it is your problem and can't be registered.

California also doesn't honor original specifications. They have slowly been changing the testing criteria and specifications for older cars in an attempt to coerce the owners to get rid of them or scrap them. Heck, California told us they wouldn't be testing diesel passenger cars and light trucks in the past. Then they changed their minds.

Normally I would say "who cares about California", but it seems that the EPA and some states are attempting to follow the path of insanity that California is blazing. It transgresses any political party and all of the presidents.

I'll never forget the time my Allison transmission wouldn't initially engage when I shifted it out of Park, on my way to have it smogged. It only did it because I had let the truck sit for about a month. Truck failed smog because it threw a code for the transmission, which California considers to be part of the emissions equipment. I was pretty pissed at the time, but eventually figured out a workaround.

Even if the EPA backs off, CARB will not, for those of us who reside in California. CARB is empire building and is revenue hungry. They won't stop until the California legislature tells them to knock it off, and the chances of that happening are nil. They won't stop until they get a piece of annual property taxes and a percentage of the gas tax collected at the pump. And make no mistake - their goal is to ensure that everyone in the future will drive electric, autonomous vehicles on pavement only and connected to a government feed, regardless of cost or practicality.


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 Post subject: Re: EPA Shutting down Diesel Turners and issuing hefty fines
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:58 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
TKB4 wrote:
The sad part is as I said before The GDE tunes are better for the environment than stock tunes and do pass emissions tests in the few I know personally about . Still makes me wonder if tunes that would pass emissions could still be sold if they didn't delete EGR s etc. Maybe the manufacturers should contract with GDE :P
Guess its a good thing the two engines I had problems with were the ones with the GDE tunes eh !
Now what about using a non OME turbo how is it going to get tuned ? What about when the parts etc either are not made anymore and no manufacture support available? Also year of manufacture and restrictions at that time may have something to do with it.
Also it would be pretty hard to stop the ORM.

They (EPA) can never stop the do-it-yourself-ers, as they have no way of knowing who does what. No paper trail like the commercial tuners where money is involved and records kept. Sort of like gun sales between individuals; they don't know what they don't know! :BANANA:
They (EPA) are simply going after all the people in the business (low hanging fruit) where they can sequester their business records and use them as evidence against them for levying large fines for financial gain. As usual, it's all about the money! The EPA is always looking for new ways to fund their cash cows.


VINs are going to end up being like Social Security Numbers - never give them out under most circumstances, even if it seems legit at the time.


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 Post subject: Re: EPA Shutting down Diesel Turners and issuing hefty fines
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:18 pm 
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enzinn wrote:
VINs are going to end up being like Social Security Numbers - never give them out under most circumstances, even if it seems legit at the time.

Very good advice going forward! :juggle:

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 Post subject: Re: EPA Shutting down Diesel Turners and issuing hefty fines
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:12 pm 
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Anyone know what California rules are for antique cars ( only about 10 more years to go!) ? What about engine swaps or transmission swaps?

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05 Blu Lim, Dayton, GDE HT, 255/75/18 , 210K , H TC
06 Bla Lim, GDE Eco, Destination AT 245/75/17, 151K, H TC
06 D Khaki Lim 126K wkII Eur TC
05 D khaki Lim 145k refurbishing
All CRDS: Fumoto, Lift , Fan Shroud mod, fuel head Gen II, SAMCOS,self TB, 2 Mic filt, Hayden


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 Post subject: Re: EPA Shutting down Diesel Turners and issuing hefty fines
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:42 pm 
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TKB4 wrote:
Anyone know what California rules are for antique cars ( only about 10 more years to go!) ? What about engine swaps or transmission swaps?

1975 and older is exempt from emissions testing.
For engine swaps, it depends on which is newer, the engine or the chassis.
If you put a 2018 Chevy LS engine in your ‘55 Chevy, it has to meet 2018 standards.
If you are assembling a new custom or reproduction chassis and want to put a 1968 428 Cobra Jet engine in it, the engine has to meet the emissions standards for the date the chassis was assembled and assigned a VIN.

In the case of the ‘55 and the LS. As long as the car is registered as a 1955 and no “official” questions you about what’s under the hood, then all is good. But if you included all the cats and other emissions parts with your engine swap, you will have little to worry about.

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Yeti stage 4 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses.
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Fixed Flex Fan and modified factory 190F thermostat
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