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Electric and Manual Fan Issues? 2005 Liberty CRD
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=91164		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Trapper458 [ Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Electric and Manual Fan Issues? 2005 Liberty CRD
Hi,
New to this forum, have researched this issue thru the search function, seems like a lot of issues with the Electric two speed fans, but not a lot of consensus on how it is supposed to work, i.e., when you turn on the a/c is the electric fan supposed to come on? or only if it is at a certain temp? Anyway....Bought this '05 Liberty last month, like it and have been doing some upgrades, maintenance, checking stuff out. As I live in GA and summer is coming I thought I'd give the A/C a look. What I'm seeing:

-73 degree outside temp, a/c on full cold, fan low, center duct output 45 degrees, put the pressure guages on the low side and saw about 25# pressure when the compressor cycled on...(it cycled at Idle on/off every few seconds), seems to run ok going down the road, cannot detect any fluctuation while driving.

-Mech fan/clutch seems pretty stiff, with a reasonably cool engine, fan will only spin 1/4 turn when I give it a spin.

-electric fan, haven't seen it on yet, doesn't come on with cold engine, A/C on, Idle.
--checked fuses and relays, all OK
--key on engine off, both relays in=no fan, both relays out=no fan, High relay only removed=fan on, Low relay only removed=no fan but as I removed the relay and put it back in the fan cycled on for about a half a second
--key on engine off, relays out, jumped terminal 30 to 87, lo fan relay jump=fan runs, high fan relay jump= no fan, High and Lo at the same time=fan runs just like lo relay jump.
--pulled 3 prong plug by electric fan, all wire continuity OK to fuse/relay panel, tested resistance, high relay side=open, low relay side=about 1.5-2 ohms. hit the prongs with 12V, low side ran OK, High side didn't run, both=same as low side.

So, I'm thinking: 1. The Mechanical Fan clutch needs replaced. 2. The Electric fan needs replaced to as it appears the High relay winding is open and inop. 3. The A/C needs charged to the correct amount of freon.

Thanks for giving this a look, appreciate constructive comments/suggestions.

Regards,
Trapper458
Author:  WWDiesel [ Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Electric and Manual Fan Issues? 2005 Liberty CRD
Things you have already established:
1. The fan motor will run in low speed, so the low speed circuit is good and the motor ground to chassis is good.

How it works,
The second WD below shows how its wired and controlled.
The PCM controls both low and high speed relays based on several inputs including temperature along with looking at the AC line pressure transducer to run the fan in high speed when the AC is on.
FSM page 7 - 36 ENGINE wrote:
From the FSM: The PCM regulates fan operation based on input from the engine coolant temperature sensor, air conditioning select switch and vehicle speed.
In addition to using coolant temperature and battery temperature sensor to control cooling fan operation, the cooling fan will also be engaged when the ,air conditioning system is
activated. The relay is also energized when air conditioning is selected and coolant temperature is above *95° C ( 203° F), or , air conditioning is selected. It will then de-energize when air conditioning is selected and coolant temperature is below *92° C (198° F)

*Note: These values listed above are for a gas engine and unfortunately the operational values for a diesel engine are not listed in the FSM or in AllData. I suspect the temperatures values will be slightly lower since we know the thermostat fully opens at 176 deg.s F.
If anyone has the operational temperature values, please post. I could not find them and would love to have them!.

things you can check with a 12v test light or volt meter.
1. Check terminal 30 for the high speed relay and make sure you have 12v
2. If you jumper terminals 30 to 87 at the high speed relay plugin, fan should run on high, if it does not continue with checks
3. with terminals 30 to 87 jumpered, check to see if you have power at the cooling fan connector (terminal 3 in the connector pinout pictured below)
4. If you have 12v at the connector for the cooling fan with 30/87 jumpered and the fan motor does not run, the motor is bad for the high speed windings.

Image

Image
Author:  Billybob [ Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Electric and Manual Fan Issues? 2005 Liberty CRD
WWDiesel wrote:
Things you have already established:
1. The fan motor will run in low speed, so the low speed circuit is good and the motor ground to chassis is good.

How it works,
The second WD below shows how its wired and controlled.
The PCM controls both low and high speed relays based on several inputs including temperature along with looking at the AC line pressure transducer to run the fan in high speed when the AC is on.
FSM page 7 - 36 ENGINE wrote:
From the FSM: The PCM regulates fan operation based on input from the engine coolant temperature sensor, air conditioning select switch and vehicle speed.
In addition to using coolant temperature and battery temperature sensor to control cooling fan operation, the cooling fan will also be engaged when the ,air conditioning system is
activated. The relay is also energized when air conditioning is selected and coolant temperature is above *95° C ( 203° F), or , air conditioning is selected. It will then de-energize when air conditioning is selected and coolant temperature is below *92° C (198° F)

*Note: These values listed above are for a gas engine and unfortunately the operational values for a diesel engine are not listed in the FSM or in AllData. I suspect the temperatures values will be slightly lower since we know the thermostat fully opens at 176 deg.s F.
If anyone has the operational temperature values, please post. I could not find them and would love to have them!.

things you can check with a 12v test light or volt meter.
1. Check terminal 30 for the high speed relay and make sure you have 12v
2. If you jumper terminals 30 to 87 at the high speed relay plugin, fan should run on high, if it does not continue with checks
3. with terminals 30 to 87 jumpered, check to see if you have power at the cooling fan connector (terminal 3 in the connector pinout pictured below)
4. If you have 12v at the connector for the cooling fan with 30/87 jumpered and the fan motor does not run, the motor is bad for the high speed windings.

Image

Image


Neat diagrams and description from WWDiesel :wink:
The FCM is always a big suspect as the connector gets all gunged up with dirt.

Watch out for the "C" connectors such as C111 etc. Worth re-plugging the relevant ones a few times. The various splices can also introduce external issues.

Definitely test the motor by jumping relay pins 30 and 87 together.

My old 2002 Export 2.5 CRD does not have an electric cooling fan...came out a few months later but it has worked all this time :wink:
Author:  Trapper458 [ Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Electric and Manual Fan Issues? 2005 Liberty CRD
WWDiesel wrote:
Things you have already established:
1. The fan motor will run in low speed, so the low speed circuit is good and the motor ground to chassis is good.

How it works,
The second WD below shows how its wired and controlled.
The PCM controls both low and high speed relays based on several inputs including temperature along with looking at the AC line pressure transducer to run the fan in high speed when the AC is on.
FSM page 7 - 36 ENGINE wrote:
From the FSM: The PCM regulates fan operation based on input from the engine coolant temperature sensor, air conditioning select switch and vehicle speed.
In addition to using coolant temperature and battery temperature sensor to control cooling fan operation, the cooling fan will also be engaged when the ,air conditioning system is
activated. The relay is also energized when air conditioning is selected and coolant temperature is above *95° C ( 203° F), or , air conditioning is selected. It will then de-energize when air conditioning is selected and coolant temperature is below *92° C (198° F)

*Note: These values listed above are for a gas engine and unfortunately the operational values for a diesel engine are not listed in the FSM or in AllData. I suspect the temperatures values will be slightly lower since we know the thermostat fully opens at 176 deg.s F.
If anyone has the operational temperature values, please post. I could not find them and would love to have them!.

things you can check with a 12v test light or volt meter.
1. Check terminal 30 for the high speed relay and make sure you have 12v
2. If you jumper terminals 30 to 87 at the high speed relay plugin, fan should run on high, if it does not continue with checks
3. with terminals 30 to 87 jumpered, check to see if you have power at the cooling fan connector (terminal 3 in the connector pinout pictured below)
4. If you have 12v at the connector for the cooling fan with 30/87 jumpered and the fan motor does not run, the motor is bad for the high speed windings.

Image

Image


Thanks for the reply, I have checked the 4 things you mention, 1. Yes 2. No 3. Yes 4. Yes, I agree

I will relace the fan motor and go from there, any current thoughts on the best replacement for the Mechanical Fan Clutch, new clutch or Flex fan or?

Regards,
Trapper458
Author:  PZKW108 [ Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Electric and Manual Fan Issues? 2005 Liberty CRD
You can use the fan motor of a PT cruiser if you can't find the oem one at a good price !
Author:  WWDiesel [ Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Electric and Manual Fan Issues? 2005 Liberty CRD
Trapper458 wrote:
Thanks for the reply, I have checked the 4 things you mention, 1. Yes 2. No 3. Yes 4. Yes, I agree
I will relace the fan motor and go from there, any current thoughts on the best replacement for the Mechanical Fan Clutch, new clutch or Flex fan or?
Regards,Trapper458

Your best option is to replace the heavy metal mechanical fan and fan clutch with the GM 11 blade plastic fan and HD fan clutch designed for the large V8 engine with the towing package. Both can be bought at NAPA or sourced online. One of the better mods I did to my Jeep CRD!

For more details, see this:> viewtopic.php?f=5&t=82941

Image
Author:  Trapper458 [ Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Electric and Manual Fan Issues? 2005 Liberty CRD
Thanks again for the replies.

WW, I appreciate the link also, had run across it and had it saved for reference, was curious if that was still the “right fix” as the post was a few years old. I’ll go on Napa and get what I need. The mod to the shroud sounds like a good one, any tips/lessons learned there? I see you are in GA also, I’ll PM you....

Regards,
Trapper458
Author:  casm [ Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Electric and Manual Fan Issues? 2005 Liberty CRD
Trapper458 wrote:
WW, I appreciate the link also, had run across it and had it saved for reference, was curious if that was still the “right fix” as the post was a few years old.


Yep, it's still the right one :wink:

Have to say that it's one of the better mods you can do to a CRD - even in 100°F-plus temperatures, crawling in traffic, the A/C works great. Helps greatly with towing, too. Definitely recommended.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Electric and Manual Fan Issues? 2005 Liberty CRD
casm wrote:
Trapper458 wrote:
WW, I appreciate the link also, had run across it and had it saved for reference, was curious if that was still the “right fix” as the post was a few years old.

Yep, it's still the right one :wink:
Have to say that it's one of the better mods you can do to a CRD - even in 100°F-plus temperatures, crawling in traffic, the A/C works great. Helps greatly with towing, too. Definitely recommended.

Definitely makes a difference in AC performance in very hot stop and go slow moving traffic in town driving especially in 100+ high humidity days we have here in the HOT south.
:BANANA:
Author:  Trapper458 [ Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Electric and Manual Fan Issues? 2005 Liberty CRD
WWDiesel wrote:
casm wrote:
Trapper458 wrote:
WW, I appreciate the link also, had run across it and had it saved for reference, was curious if that was still the “right fix” as the post was a few years old.

Yep, it's still the right one :wink:
Have to say that it's one of the better mods you can do to a CRD - even in 100°F-plus temperatures, crawling in traffic, the A/C works great. Helps greatly with towing, too. Definitely recommended.

Definitely makes a difference in AC performance in very hot stop and go slow moving traffic in town driving especially in 100+ high humidity days we have here in the HOT south.
:BANANA:


The mod to the shroud sounds like a good one, any tips/lessons learned there?
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Electric and Manual Fan Issues? 2005 Liberty CRD
Trapper458 wrote:
The mod to the shroud sounds like a good one, any tips/lessons learned there?

See this thread on LOST for details:> viewtopic.php?p=916154#p916154
There are several methods to achieve the split shroud, but this one worked for me.

Image
Author:  casm [ Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Electric and Manual Fan Issues? 2005 Liberty CRD
No photos, but I went straight-up field expedient on ours. Cut the shroud into two halves, with the cuts being parallel to the ground. Drilled a hole either side of the cuts, and used zip-ties to pull them together.

Haven't had to pull the shroud in well over a year, and everything seems to be staying in place.
Author:  TKB4 [ Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Electric and Manual Fan Issues? 2005 Liberty CRD
As per some of my previous posts, there is no need to EVER remove the whole shroud in one piece. With much less time and trouble just cut the shroud while in place the very first time you need access with a vibratory type saw or I did one with a grinder which is a little dicy to control well. Takes less than 10 minutes.
Author:  flash7210 [ Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Electric and Manual Fan Issues? 2005 Liberty CRD
I just cut out the bottom center section of the shroud and left it at that.

No fan clutch here. I’m using a fixed flex fan.
And when I installed an aftermarket intercooler I had to ditch the electric fan.

I’ve got 99 problems but my CRD’s cooling system ain’t one of them :wink:
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