CHINESE INJECTOR COPPER WASHERS

TKB4 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:41 pm

Normally I stay away from Chinese parts at least on anything steel quality or longevity is desired BUT I had plans to replace either exhaust valves and or rockers on three different CRDs in next few months and had already found some seals that would work when I needed some fairly quick though they are not ideal (sorry got them from local shop and they didn't even charge me so dont know part number etc.

The point is I ordered a pack of chinese ones on eBay that cross referenced to I think a Bosch part number I ran down maybe through the V0yager diesel engine. These washers were about $10 for a dozen and I thought how could the chinese mess up copper material, specs maybe but not the materiall. When I got them in couple months ago I compared them to old ones and slipped one on a spare injector and they appeared identical. When actually rep[lacing injectors on the first valve replacement the injectors leaked. When I removed the injectors and tried to remove the copper washers I noticed that they were harder to remove. On inspection I remembered that to get the OEM ones off the diameter of the washer matched the points of the hex shape but you could pry up on slight protrusion past the flat sides of hex to get them started off. The chinese ones didn't protrude much if any. Then I thought that the OEM ones had been compressed to allow for this.

What actually appeared to be the problem was the hardness of the chinese copper washer when I removed them they didn't appear to have been crushed or molded or flattened at all and may be slightly thicker than originals. My and a diesel mechanic friend of mine believes that are harder copper than OEM and maybe tin or some other metal was added to the copper.

I reused the OEM ones because I didn't want to wait on shipment and they sealed .

The morale of the story is the cheaper chinese copper injector washers did not seal and cost me an extra hour of work and some anguish.

layback40 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:11 pm

TKB4 wrote:

Normally I stay away from Chinese parts at least on anything steel quality or longevity is desired BUT I had plans to replace either exhaust valves and or rockers on three different CRDs in next few months and had already found some seals that would work when I needed some fairly quick though they are not ideal (sorry got them from local shop and they didn't even charge me so dont know part number etc.

The point is I ordered a pack of chinese ones on eBay that cross referenced to I think a Bosch part number I ran down maybe through the V0yager diesel engine. These washers were about $10 for a dozen and I thought how could the chinese mess up copper material, specs maybe but not the materiall. When I got them in couple months ago I compared them to old ones and slipped one on a spare injector and they appeared identical. When actually rep[lacing injectors on the first valve replacement the injectors leaked. When I removed the injectors and tried to remove the copper washers I noticed that they were harder to remove. On inspection I remembered that to get the OEM ones off the diameter of the washer matched the points of the hex shape but you could pry up on slight protrusion past the flat sides of hex to get them started off. The chinese ones didn't protrude much if any. Then I thought that the OEM ones had been compressed to allow for this.

What actually appeared to be the problem was the hardness of the chinese copper washer when I removed them they didn't appear to have been crushed or molded or flattened at all and may be slightly thicker than originals. My and a diesel mechanic friend of mine believes that are harder copper than OEM and maybe tin or some other metal was added to the copper.

I reused the OEM ones because I didn't want to wait on shipment and they sealed .

The morale of the story is the cheaper chinese copper injector washers did not seal and cost me an extra hour of work and some anguish.

Probably they are a bit brass with zinc as the alloy.
When you have nothing better to do, you could try annealing them to see if that softens them. They have probably work hardened in the manufacture process & then not been annealed after. If they are a cheap alloy nothing will fix them.

rankom · **Posted:** Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:18 pm

Back In the old days working on Cummins 5.9 or 8.3 engines I use to warm up the copper washer with a torch, just to make it softer to seal better. But with our VM2.8 I used and injector cup cutter tool to clean the bore and never had any issues with doing so.

Jett · **Joined:** Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:07 am **Posts:** 250

Good idea. I’ve never done that, always figured they made them the ideal hardness to do the job, but that’s a poor assumption. How common is injector seal failure on these? And how about the injectors themselves? Typical 200k life?

Mountainman · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:54 am

Jett wrote:

Good idea. I’ve never done that, always figured they made them the ideal hardness to do the job, but that’s a poor assumption. How common is injector seal failure on these? And how about the injectors themselves? Typical 200k life?

The seals fail very often, total crap. I use a reamer and retorque the injectors after a heat cycle or few, but haven't had them back apart to see if that helped the leaks.
The injectors will fail much sooner without better than factory filtration and rarely they burn a hole through a piston prior to 200k. Many of us run 2 micron filtration.
It's worth adding the better filter and get all 4 injectors tested to avoid a potentially catastrophic failure.
Time will tell, but I bet my 4 rebuilt injectors last 500k+ with 2 micron filtration.

Rrusse11 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:20 am

I've assumed the chinese injectors on Ebay are crap, and been thinking about getting a set of OEM used ones and having them rebuilt. Annealing the washers is ez, the VW ALH TDI have the same copper crush injector seal. Been looking at used fuel pumps as well to do the same.
Thoughts?

Mountainman · **Posted:** Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:33 pm

Rrusse11 wrote:

I've assumed the chinese injectors on Ebay are crap, and been thinking about getting a set of OEM used ones and having them rebuilt. Annealing the washers is ez, the VW ALH TDI have the same copper crush injector seal. Been looking at used fuel pumps as well to do the same.
Thoughts?

Thanks for the ALH washer info, I've been looking for years for another alternative!

No need to touch the CP3 fuel pump, bad idea. They basically never fail, and if they do, I have several spares (because they never fail), that I'd sell for about $200. I think Geordi has some also, and then they're cheap on ebay also. They're probably a million+ mile part...

Rrusse11 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:02 pm

https://www.idparts.com/injector-seal-1 ... p-375.html $1.36 @

Mman,

Not sure if the size is identical, but not much of a risk to order a set to find out.
I've re-used old ones in my TDI, just clean up the faces on a stone and heat, propane torch is enough, then immediately drop in cold water. Works a treat. Guessing here that it's ez enough to do with the originals in the CRD.

Thanks for the feedback on the CP3 pump. I've been assuming it's similar to the Bosch VE pump in the VW. People commonly rebuild them around 200-250k miles, though many go further.

What about the injectors? Chinesium sets run cheap, but used OEM run about the same, $400. Worthwhile grabbing a set of these and having them rebuilt?

Cheers!

Ps. Or if you're feeling flush, here's the Mopar parts.
https://www.idparts.com/injector-seal-r ... -3284.html $8.95@

TKB4 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:45 am

I got seals that work from local diesel repair shop they are a tight fit but they work. I didn't get part number because they just gave them to me free. Bought the original crush washers only from ID parts about $12 I think.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:56 am

Rrusse11 wrote:

https://www.idparts.com/injector-seal-1zahualh-046130219a-p-375.html $1.36 @

Mman,

Not sure if the size is identical, but not much of a risk to order a set to find out.
I've re-used old ones in my TDI, just clean up the faces on a stone and heat, propane torch is enough, then immediately drop in cold water. Works a treat. Guessing here that it's ez enough to do with the originals in the CRD.

Thanks for the feedback on the CP3 pump. I've been assuming it's similar to the Bosch VE pump in the VW. People commonly rebuild them around 200-250k miles, though many go further.

What about the injectors? Chinesium sets run cheap, but used OEM run about the same, $400. Worthwhile grabbing a set of these and having them rebuilt?

Cheers!

Ps. Or if you're feeling flush, here's the Mopar parts.
https://www.idparts.com/injector-seal-r ... -3284.html $8.95@

You definitely want to get the injectors tested by a good shop. Runs about $25 an injector here. Then search for good rebuilds if you can find them, but I pay about $400 each with the core return. Otherwise you might melt a piston, just like the 24 valve cummins! 2 micron fuel filtration will solve the problem going forward. The Racor filters last a long time by themselves.
Thanks, I'll check out the ALH washers. I compared the BEW ones when I built an engine, and they were different. Oh, I forget that someone told me that powerstroke washers fit. I think they are thicker though. I dont want to mess with the piston clearance...

CHINESE INJECTOR COPPER WASHERS

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