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Lift necessary?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=91739		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  bascars [ Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Lift necessary?
When I bought my 05 CRD last year I noticed that the front tires were rubbing and damaging the inner plastic fender (mostly front area). The tires are stock size 225/75R16 Cooper Discoverer AT3 4S. The rubbing must be from the aftermarket wheels with a different backspacing. I like the stance and look of the wheel/tire, so really just looking to raise the front and level out the Jeep. Not opposed to a slight lift all around but would prefer to just do the front and minimize the geometry changes and associated stresses. Searching the Lost Jeeps forum and other sites there are several solutions. This forum (link below) has OME 1.5" all around lift, IronMan 2" all around lift, talks about spacers, and Bilstein B8 5100 series adjustable shocks.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=91301

spacers?
https://www.amazon.com/Daystar-Liberty- ... ive&sr=1-2
https://www.amazon.com/Takeo-Front-Leve ... berty&th=1

I think I'm leaning toward the shock route as it seems there would be flexibility in the height and it would be easier to get it "just right"

Would love to get some feedback and other options you may have
Author:  WWDiesel [ Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lift necessary?
bascars wrote:
When I bought my 05 CRD last year I noticed that the front tires were rubbing and damaging the inner plastic fender (mostly front area). The tires are stock size 225/75R16 Cooper Discoverer AT3 4S. The rubbing must be from the aftermarket wheels with a different backspacing. I like the stance and look of the wheel/tire, so really just looking to raise the front and level out the Jeep. Not opposed to a slight lift all around but would prefer to just do the front and minimize the geometry changes and associated stresses. Searching the Lost Jeeps forum and other sites there are several solutions. This forum (link below) has OME 1.5" all around lift, IronMan 2" all around lift, talks about spacers, and Bilstein B8 5100 series adjustable shocks.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=91301
spacers?
I think I'm leaning toward the shock route as it seems there would be flexibility in the height and it would be easier to get it "just right"
Would love to get some feedback and other options you may have

My vote is for the IronMan Springs and Bilstein shocks. I have them along with 1/2" strut spacers for a total of 2.5 inch lift.
245/75/16 AT's on stock rims and never had any issues of rubbing or scraping.
Ride and handling is super. Articulation is also good with the stock length rear shocks, but I do have IronRock rear upper and lower adjustable control arms.
Had this setup on the Jeep since 2013 and still going strong. Very little if any spring sag noticeable on the front springs.

Springs:
https://ironman4x4america.com/categorie ... &Year=2005

Shocks:
Bilstein Brand: 4600 Heavy Duty (B6)
Part Number Position
24-139168 Front
24-139175 Rear

Image
Author:  flash7210 [ Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lift necessary?
Please post pictures of your wheels and the rubbing.
Stock size tires shouldn’t be rubbing.

The easiest and lowest cost solution is to trim the plastic and pound down the pinch welds.
Or maybe the inner liners are just missing some clips that hold them up?
Author:  iakj11 [ Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lift necessary?
bascars wrote:
When I bought my 05 CRD last year I noticed that the front tires were rubbing and damaging the inner plastic fender (mostly front area). The tires are stock size 225/75R16 Cooper Discoverer AT3 4S. The rubbing must be from the aftermarket wheels with a different backspacing. I like the stance and look of the wheel/tire, so really just looking to raise the front and level out the Jeep. Not opposed to a slight lift all around but would prefer to just do the front and minimize the geometry changes and associated stresses. Searching the Lost Jeeps forum and other sites there are several solutions. This forum (link below) has OME 1.5" all around lift, IronMan 2" all around lift, talks about spacers, and Bilstein B8 5100 series adjustable shocks.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=91301

spacers?
https://www.amazon.com/Daystar-Liberty- ... ive&sr=1-2
https://www.amazon.com/Takeo-Front-Leve ... berty&th=1

I think I'm leaning toward the shock route as it seems there would be flexibility in the height and it would be easier to get it "just right"

Would love to get some feedback and other options you may have


It sounds like your current suspension is quite sagged or has some other problems. Do please post those pictures and maybe we can help.

If nothing else is wrong, and if all you want to do is raise the front a bit to fit your stock size tires on aftermarket wheels, a low cost option would be new stock height front shocks and springs. You could add a top plate (I think rocky road outfitters is the only place to get those right now) and/or do a clevis lift to get it "just right". The bilstien adjustables would obviously work too, but I'd recommend some replacement springs while you are at it.
Author:  bascars [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lift necessary?
Sorry it took so long to get pics. Had to do the research on how to post images here. The wheels seem to have a different offset from the stock wheels and they appear to sit further out from the vehicle. the inner plastic fender has been trimmed from PO and more from me but it still hits now and then. The front end does seem to sit lower, not sure if it is tired suspension or that it normally sits that low. It appears from the measurements I have that the center of the wheel hits at 15 inches and the top of fender at 32 (or 17 from center of wheel to top of fender-seems I read somewhere that stock was 19). Maybe just a stock replacement would suffice.

Image

Image

Image
Author:  bascars [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lift necessary?
PO provided records from when he had the vehicle. Looks like NAPA modular strut assemblies 181577L/181577R and Spectrum rear shocks (37203) replaced 4.5 years and 50k miles ago.
Author:  iakj11 [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lift necessary?
Those front strut assemblies came with springs that look like they were meant for a gasser liberty. The 2.8 diesel engine is quite a bit heavier than the 3.7 and requires a stiffer spring. That's part of your rubbing issue. The other probably bigger part is the increased turning arc caused by the offset in your wheels. I experience this arc phenomenon with my setup too (1.25" thick wheel adapters and wheels from a jk). My tires (245/75/r16) are about even with the outside of the plastic fenders.

You might be able to fix it by lifting the front end, but my experience is that it will just move the rub spot down until you have applied enough lift to clear the forward most part of the tire under the front fender liner.
Author:  bascars [ Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lift necessary?
So it sounds like I will have to go more than stock and lift the vehicle some. I know some that started changing the upper control arms and other parts due to geometry changes at 2.5". Is there a point where I won't have to worry about other part upgrades, say 1.5" or less?
Author:  WWDiesel [ Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lift necessary?
bascars wrote:
So it sounds like I will have to go more than stock and lift the vehicle some. I know some that started changing the upper control arms and other parts due to geometry changes at 2.5". Is there a point where I won't have to worry about other part upgrades, say 1.5" or less?

You can go to 2.5" of lift with 245/75/16 tires on stock backspacing wheels and stock control arms and not have any rubbing problems.
Your biggest problem is your aftermarket wheels backspacing is causing the tires to rub due to the larger increased turning arc of the tire on the higher offset wheels.
Go back to stock 16" wheels with OEM backspacing along with a 2 - 2.5" lift and you should be OK.

Stock wheels that came on diesel Liberty:
7"w x 16" with either a 37.3mm or 41.3mm positive backspacing depending on which wheel it was fitted with from the factory.
Additional info:
– Center Bore: 71.5 mm
– Bolt Pattern: 5x114.3
– Lug Bolt Torque: 115 - 149 Nm
– Thread Size: 1/2" - 20 UNF
Author:  iakj11 [ Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lift necessary?
Don't go abandoning your wheels just yet. They may be fine if you can get your center of hub to fender measurement to 20+ inches. You should be able to achieve this a number of ways, but either the Iron Man or OME options are the most widely accepted and available. Neither option on its own will require new CV axles or UCAs. Worst case is you get your new front suspension and you still have unacceptable rubbing. Next step in that case would be add a little more lift via top plate or clevis if you can. If that is no good, find a different set of wheels. :2cents:

I'm sitting at 20.5, probably have a very similar net wheel offset and my tires are bigger. The tires just kiss the front inner fender liner at full lock.
Author:  cobalt72 [ Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lift necessary?
How's your research so far? My buddy is looking at this CRD as the next project from a young guy who put aftermarket wheels and can't fix the rubbing. We'll just finish installing the parts from 4Wheelonline onto the truck this week and we'll take a closer look at it.
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