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 Post subject: Re: Cam sprockets discolored. Need to replace?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:08 pm 
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I have a follow-up for WWDiesel's comments about the kits that are available on eBay to delete the EGR valve and other superfluous stuff. Is there a tutorial posted anywhere that outlines the procedures installing such kits?

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 Post subject: Re: Cam sprockets discolored. Need to replace?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:00 pm 
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user113 wrote:
I have a follow-up for WWDiesel's comments about the kits that are available on eBay to delete the EGR valve and other superfluous stuff. Is there a tutorial posted anywhere that outlines the procedures installing such kits?

There are a several good YouTube videos on the subject. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Cam sprockets discolored. Need to replace?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:24 pm 
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Captain Dean has a good rundown on cleaning the oil galleries in the head on his excellent thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Cam sprockets discolored. Need to replace?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:59 pm 
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I'm back! Thanks to WWDiesel for fixing my account issues so I can log in again.

After considering everyone's advice, and reading through Captain Dean's excellent thread (thanks turblesdiesel), I'm pulling my engine and cleaning all the oil passages as thoroughly as I can, and maybe renewing the bearings while I'm in there, especially since my EGR pipe looks like this:

Image

The glow plugs came out fairly easily (PB Blaster is my bff). They're Bosch 7v plugs (original, I'm guessing), and one's a little bent at the connector, so I'll replace with new 5v plugs.

Image

The turbo was a pain to remove. I'm guessing the answer to "how much end play is acceptable on the turbo shaft?" is "Not much.", so I'll probably be replacing that as well. Injector Number 2 took a lot of penetrating oil, wiggling, and patience, but in the end they all came by hand. With the head off, the crank turns smoothly with a 21mm wrench on the crank bolt. Head gasket and piston tops look pretty good, as far as I can tell. The stuff on them seems to be penetrating oil and other crud that fell in when I pulled the injectors. The only place the carbon seems disturbed is where the intake valves touched piston #1, but there doesn't seem to be any deformation.
Image

Cylinder 4: Image

Cylinder 3: Image

Cylinder 2: Image

Cylinder 1 (front): Image

I currently have the EGR off, water pump back half off, A/C compressor and p/s pump loose, fuel hoses off, starter off, and should be all set to remove the flex plate fasteners and bell housing bolts, and pull it this week sometime. I am having a little trouble with the engine ground down by the dipstick tube. The nut seems fused to the strap connector, and the stud is seized, so I twisted the little torx head off of it. Is there a trick I'm missing to getting it loose?

Then it's going on the engine stand. What's the best way to mount it on the stand?

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 Post subject: Re: Cam sprockets discolored. Need to replace?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:52 pm 
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Just a casual observation looking at the pictures you posted; looks like no. 2 injector was possibly over-fueling a bit???

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 Post subject: Re: Cam sprockets discolored. Need to replace?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:09 am 
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Yeah, even after taking the lake of PB blaster I used to get that injector out into account, that one seems a bit different. There's a Bosch shop up in Providence, I think. I'll probably bring my injectors in to them for a tune-up.

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 Post subject: Re: Cam sprockets discolored. Need to replace?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:29 am 
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GeoJD wrote:
Yeah, even after taking the lake of PB blaster I used to get that injector out into account, that one seems a bit different. There's a Bosch shop up in Providence, I think. I'll probably bring my injectors in to them for a tune-up.

That would be a prudent move just to be on the safe side! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Cam sprockets discolored. Need to replace?
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 10:57 am 
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I've been making slow progress toward pulling the engine. (I'd get a lot more done on the Jeep if I didn't have work or kids!) I've reached the part in the service manual where the next steps are to separate the engine from the transmission and hoist the engine of of the engine bay, but I can't get them apart. I have the transmission supported by a floor jack, and I lifted with the jack and the hoist until the motor mount fixtures cleared the top of the mount bolts, and moved things around a bunch, but the engine wouldn't separate from the transmission, so I lowered it back down. I searched for bolts I'd missed, and found 3 - one near the starter location on the transmission side, and two sneaky ones down low near the oil pan from the engine side. (I got the other engine-side bolt near the camshaft sensor on my first pass.) I'm now pretty sure that I have them all, and when I turn the crank I can see the flex plate rotates free of the torque converter, but when I lift, it still won't separate. Is there some trick or procedure I'm missing?

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 Post subject: Re: Cam sprockets discolored. Need to replace?
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 1:12 pm 
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There are quite a few bolts:

Image

(There's a thread around here somewhere where it was discussed ad nauseum on my behalf :) )

If you are sure they are all removed, and you have removed the four (IIRC) torque converter to flex plate bolts, what you may be hung up on is either the alignment dowels or the torque converter snout. You may need to LIGHTLY pry the two apart - use something thin, strong, and wide to avoid putting too much load in any one place and damaging the soft aluminum on either side. I found my TC snout was pretty well stuck into the crank and it was necessary to use a long prybar to coax it off the crank and to stay on the transmission where it belonged. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Cam sprockets discolored. Need to replace?
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 1:18 pm 
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How are you lifting the engine?
The key is to lift the engine up enough to clear the motor mounts while at the same time lift the transmission up until it is inline with the engine so as not to be in a bind. Then simply wiggle the engine slightly side to side while pulling forward on it. It should simply slide out of the transmission housing. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Cam sprockets discolored. Need to replace?
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 2:45 pm 
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Nice! I wish they had a photo like that in the service manual. Bolts J, A, and D were the ones I missed the first time, but I have them all now. (I'll count them next time I'm at the shop to be sure!)

When I spin the crank, the TC doesn't, so that should be good. I'm lifting with an engine hoist and load leveler on the engine (attached via 4 used head bolts) and a floor jack under the transmission. It must be the housing that's sticky. I'll try a thin scraper and see if I can get it in at various locations around the housing. Some more PB Blaster, too...

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 Post subject: Re: Cam sprockets discolored. Need to replace?
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 9:13 pm 
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My Jeep was missing bolts but I didn't realize til I was putting it back together... Figuring out what I had and what I didn't was fun. ;)

In this picture you can see the location of the two locating dowels... If it binding, it's either there or the torque converter.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Cam sprockets discolored. Need to replace?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:20 am 
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After some wiggling I got the engine out. The alignment dowels had some oxidation, and I think that's what was hanging it up.

Image

I got the engine on a stand, and have most of the remaining stuff off of it. The oil pan was nasty! Lots of "black jello" in the bottom. I'm glad I pulled it. The higher-up portions look fairly clean, though. I have the balance shaft assembly and oil jets out. The injection pump is giving me some trouble, though. I picked up a VM.1067 pump remover off the interwebs, but I'm having trouble getting it on. The manual says...

Image

...but for the life of me, I can't seem to get the feet through the holes! The back shoulder of the curved foot binds with the back side of the hole in the sprocket and won't go through.

Image

Is there some trick to it? Or do I need to remove a little material from the tool?

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 Post subject: Re: Cam sprockets discolored. Need to replace?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:21 pm 
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Wait... what's the goal here? That tool just holds the sprocket in place so you can remove the pump & not mess with the belt/disturb cam timing. You're already removing the belt, so there's no reason to do this. Probably the pump doesn't have to be touched... maybe I missed something?

The black jello is disturbing.... that suggests the oil has been contaminated. Although I guess it's been sitting a while at this point, so maybe a result of that? If it smells like fuel, I'd check the bottom end. If it just smells like oil, it's probably moisture... double check the PCV system. Sludgy oil is obviously problematic for the spinny bits in an engine.


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 Post subject: Re: Cam sprockets discolored. Need to replace?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:31 pm 
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The immediate goal is to remove the pulley so I can remove the pump so I can get the bracket off and clean everything up. None of the other pullers I have seem to be able to get a grip, so I thought I'd try the specialty tool.

The larger goal is to make sure all of the oil paths are clear and get everything reassembled. You (thesameguy) also recommended that I look at the crank before I put it back on the road.
One path would be get down to the bare block so I can have it tanked, and have a machine shop measure the crank for me. The one machine shop I spoke with so far said they'd be happy to assess the crank for me and clean the bare block if I brought them in, but they (and I quote) "don't want to have anything to do with the disassembly or reassembly of that engine". I'm going to check a couple of other places. I have to admit, I'm at the limits of my skills (and tool set) here. I comfortable turning wrenches, but I've never pulled a piston on an engine before (certainly not one with sleeves, and sleeve gaskets and shims that need to be the correct size for appropriate protrusion , and a crank that comes out the end!), and I'm not sure I would know what to look for to assess the crank or bearings myself. I'm also worried that I will, though inexperience, mess up a sleeve or a ring, and since the old-style rings are unavailable, that would mean a whole new set of piston$. I would very much like to avoid that.

It has been sitting for a couple of years, and I think I only smelled oil. The oil pan has a lot of sludge, but I haven't found any sludge higher up at all, with the exception of that one little plugged channel up in the cam carrier. I intend to replace the PVC valve and add a Provent, and "address the EGR system", so that should help. I'm also going to replace the oil jets, just to be on the safe side. I'm starting to think maybe it would be OK to pull the caps over the oil channels in the main bearing supports and flush everything thoroughly. And maybe pull the rod caps and inspect? Again, I'm not sure what I'd need to look for...

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 Post subject: Re: Cam sprockets discolored. Need to replace?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:49 pm 
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My memory is now foggy, but you don't need to remove the pulley to get the inner cover off as it goes around the pulley, and IIRC the pump can be removed from the pump from the back. That's my recollection! I definitely did not remove the pulley and I had my block pretty bare.

I wouldn't necessarily jump to pulling the crank... if you pull the pan and remove the balance shaft carrier you can pull the mains one at a time to inspect the one half of the bearing and the crank. If the bearing you can see looks good and the crank looks good, there really isn't any reason to go further. Be sure there's no scratches or gouges on the journals and the bearings aren't worn to copper. The reason to check is the oiling situation - you want to be sure there isn't damage/wear there. If this inspection shows there is, you can formulate a plan from there... but no point in worrying until you reach a point you gotta worry. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Cam sprockets discolored. Need to replace?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:49 pm 
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My memory is now foggy, but you don't need to remove the pulley to get the inner cover off as it goes around the pulley, and IIRC the pump can be removed from the pump from the back. That's my recollection! I definitely did not remove the pulley and I had my block pretty bare.

I wouldn't necessarily jump to pulling the crank... if you pull the pan and remove the balance shaft carrier you can pull the mains one at a time to inspect the one half of the bearing and the crank. If the bearing you can see looks good and the crank looks good, there really isn't any reason to go further. Be sure there's no scratches or gouges on the journals and the bearings aren't worn to copper. The reason to check is the oiling situation - you want to be sure there isn't damage/wear there. If this inspection shows there is, you can formulate a plan from there... but no point in worrying until you reach a point you gotta worry. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Cam sprockets discolored. Need to replace?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:49 pm 
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My memory is now foggy, but you don't need to remove the pulley to get the inner cover off as it goes around the pulley, and IIRC the pump can be removed from the pump from the back. That's my recollection! I definitely did not remove the pulley and I had my block pretty bare.

I wouldn't necessarily jump to pulling the crank... if you pull the pan and remove the balance shaft carrier you can pull the mains one at a time to inspect the one half of the bearing and the crank. If the bearing you can see looks good and the crank looks good, there really isn't any reason to go further. Be sure there's no scratches or gouges on the journals and the bearings aren't worn to copper. The reason to check is the oiling situation - you want to be sure there isn't damage/wear there. If this inspection shows there is, you can formulate a plan from there... but no point in worrying until you reach a point you gotta worry. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Cam sprockets discolored. Need to replace?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:49 pm 
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My memory is now foggy, but you don't need to remove the pulley to get the inner cover off as it goes around the pulley, and IIRC the pump can be removed from the pump from the back. That's my recollection! I definitely did not remove the pulley and I had my block pretty bare.

I wouldn't necessarily jump to pulling the crank... if you pull the pan and remove the balance shaft carrier you can pull the mains one at a time to inspect the one half of the bearing and the crank. If the bearing you can see looks good and the crank looks good, there really isn't any reason to go further. Be sure there's no scratches or gouges on the journals and the bearings aren't worn to copper. The reason to check is the oiling situation - you want to be sure there isn't damage/wear there. If this inspection shows there is, you can formulate a plan from there... but no point in worrying until you reach a point you gotta worry. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Cam sprockets discolored. Need to replace?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:35 pm 
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thesameguy, you are correct, the inner timing belt cover will come off the engine WITHOUT removing the the injection pump pulley.
Normally just the 2 Cam gears, water pump pulley, cam belt tensioner, and cam belt idler pulleys are removed to remove the inner timing belt cover.

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Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
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