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Rear Driveshaft U-Joint Failure
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Author:  WWDiesel [ Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:16 am ]
Post subject:  Rear Driveshaft U-Joint Failure
Had the vehicle on the lift for some other upgrades and while inspecting all the driveline parts, I noticed a little red rust trail coming out of one of the rear u-joints cups. Checked it with a pry bar and sure enough, it had way to much movement in it. The red rust trail was a good tell-tell sign of coming imminent failure. Picked up two greaseable Spicer U-Joints and replaced both of them.
FYI, I marked everything before taking it apart so I could put it all back together in the same relative position as it was before taking it apart.
The rear joint with the rust trail; one of the cups was worn out, rusty inside, and dry. So if you see rust dust or rust trail around a cup on your u-joints, you may need to replace it.
Picture of rust trail and u-joint cup after disassembly.

Image

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Author:  krb [ Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear Driveshaft U-Joint Failure
Good to know and good you detected it before it failed. No noise or anything yet?

Were the OEMs greasable (not had mine on the road long enough to find out just yet) or sealed? If both are an option, curious why you went with zerks. On other trusted forums I've enjoyed the pro/con discussion of sealed vs greasable. Always interested in other point of views...
Author:  layback40 [ Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear Driveshaft U-Joint Failure
I am probably preaching to the believers!
Never use EP grease in a U joint!
The moli in it as a friction modifier causes the rollers to slip and not roll and we end up with failure. Same for taper rollers like wheel bearings. MP grease only.
EP is only used when you need surfaces to slip like ball joints, bush bearings and CV joints.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear Driveshaft U-Joint Failure
krb wrote:
Good to know and good you detected it before it failed. No noise or anything yet?
Were the OEMs greasable (not had mine on the road long enough to find out just yet) or sealed? If Both are an option, curious why you went with zerks. On other trusted forums I've enjoyed the pro/con discussion of sealed vs greasable. Always interested in other point of views...

The ones I removed were NOT greaseable, they looked to be the factory OEM joints based on the cast numbers on the cross piece.

As to noise; yes I had begun to notice some odd noise when the engine was under load going uphill around 40-50 mph. That is what prompted me to put it on the rack and start looking closely at driveline parts. Was not a bad noise, but was abnormal and out of character for this Jeep. :o

As to greaseable or non-greaseable; I am old school and I like being able to grease things when possible. Greasing things simply makes them last! The original u-joint was non-greaseable and the failed cup was bone dry and devoid of any grease and that is why it failed. Being able to grease keeps them lubricated and also forces out any moisture or contaminates that might make their way into the cup. The Spicer u-joints were available without the grease fitting and they were less expensive, but I choose and wanted the higher priced greaseable joints.... :D

Length A (in): 3.219 Inch
Length B (in): 3.219 Inch

Spicer U-Joint (SPL) U-Joint (w/grease fitting)
Part #: 5-153X (greaseable)

Spicer Life Series (SPL) U-Joint
Part #: 5-1310X (without/grease fitting)

[quote=Note:] Be careful selecting U-Joints, there are different sizes used in the gas versions with manual transmissions and they will not fit the Liberty CRD[/quote]

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Author:  daytona701 [ Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear Driveshaft U-Joint Failure
What is ep or mp grease?
Author:  WWDiesel [ Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear Driveshaft U-Joint Failure
AP Grease
AP Grease is a lithium based multifunctional high temperature, water resistant grease.
Name stands for ALL PURPOSE grease. This grease provides excellent protection against rusting and corrosion. Usually applied to water pumps, wheel bearings, chassis fittings or universal joints. Due to its high drop point (melting point) which provides good thermal and structural stability plus the high degree of protection against rusting and corrosion it is used in all grease-lubricated automobile parts including on commercial vehicles.

MP Grease
MP stands for Multipurpose Grease is a NLGI (National Lubrication Grease Institute) number 2 grease. It is recommended for most automotive, agriculture and light transport applications i.e., chassis lubrication and steering linkage joints. This grease provides the lubrication needed while also coating the components in a wash-proof layer of protection from the elements.

EP Grease
Name stands for Extreme Pressure. Under high pressure or shock loading, normal grease can be compressed to the extent that the protective film breaks. If the film breaks, then the greased parts come into physical contact, causing friction and wear. In most all applications, EP grease can be used where any AP or MP grease is called for.

Applications:
    wheel bearings
    disk brake applications
    u-joints
    fifth wheels
    steering linkage
    chassis lubricant on ALL of your equipment ranging from your lawn mower, scooter, motorcycle all the way to you car, truck, farming or industrial equipment application.
EP grease has a melting point of well over 650°F
Author:  My66dodge [ Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear Driveshaft U-Joint Failure
You are correct in the statement to NEVER use molly grease in a roller bearing application it allows the rollers to slip and not roll so it wears out improperly. Second at my shop we only sell non serviceable u joints for two reasons, first the great able have one sealing service and they allow dirt and water intrusion so they fail earlier, the non serviceable have three sealing services and they allow for less contamination of the bearings. Third let’s be real here, for the amount of people or shops who install the serviceable joints... no one greases them properly... all lube techs never grease them and the sling the grease and wear out sooner, I have seen this on a professional level time and time again, the easiest place to see this is in a full time 4wd front end like the HD dodge truck front ends where the bearings are always spinning, the non serviceable u joints last 3x as long... I only use the non serviceable on my vehicles and sell them too for these reasons!


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Author:  WWDiesel [ Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear Driveshaft U-Joint Failure
My66Dodge,
The OP stated EP grease, not molly, but I agree with you on not using molly for bearings. EP is OK.
As to greaseable or non-greaseable U-Joints, I service my own vehicles so they are done correctly and in a timely manner.

If you don't perform your own service and / or don't know how to correctly service/grease U-Joints, you would be much better off to stick with the non-serviceable sealed type joints.

Greaseable joints will outlast any sealed joint if serviced properly and routinely. I have several vehicles with greaseable U-Joints that are over 60 years old with the original joints still in service ang going strong. Years ago they used to put grease fittings on everything that moved and they never wore out if cared for properly. The reason the factories quit putting fittings on everything is people got to sorry or lazy to grease them properly. :banghead:
Author:  My66dodge [ Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear Driveshaft U-Joint Failure
I always get a smile out of the days when see an old classic where they had grease fittings on literally everything... took 1/2 hour just to hit all the fittings, they were on all of the joints every the leaf springs... a little tip for everyone where even a lot of pros go wrong, you gotta unload the item getting the grease before you grease it, so let the wheels hang when you grease them so the grease makes a layer in the joint, most people just grease with the wheels still on the ground and don’t get the new grease in the ball joints or king pin. At my shop we use Redline red moly grease when we use it for most anything we can (where applicable)


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Author:  daytona701 [ Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear Driveshaft U-Joint Failure
Now I have to sought through my grease tubs and tubes. I remember being told a long time ago not to mix different type greases because failure could occur and now I know why. I have a 1936 Dodge D2 sedan that will one day be running. I haven’t counted but it has at least 30 grease fittings. Even on the leaf spring shackles. Weighs a ton.
Author:  krb [ Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear Driveshaft U-Joint Failure
I figured I'd get some good opinions & observations with my inquiry!

From what I've gleaned from my 1st Gen Dodge/Cummins site is pretty much what youall are saying. First that I've heard about moly vs LP though and good to know. One other factor mentioned (I didn't know about the additional seals in the non-greasable) was that sealed units are solid, thus stronger, where serviceable ones have the channels and orifices for greasing.

I agree that most folks nowdays don't even check fluids let alone know what a zerk is. My '51 Dodge Power Wagon can drain a tube or two of grease with all the lube fittings on it. With my newer vehicles, I grease a joint or two then stand around feeling like I've got to be missing another dozen or three somewhere...

Thanks for chiming in, good discussion. I always learn something.
Author:  My66dodge [ Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear Driveshaft U-Joint Failure
The other thing always miss on modern vehicles is everything without a dipstick... the trans, transfer case, and both differentials are due every 40k but most never get the love they deserve, also the brake fluid is due to be flushed every 2 years or 24k miles...


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Author:  Mountainman [ Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear Driveshaft U-Joint Failure
In serious offroad situations with bigger tires or lockers involved, you definitely want the strength of the non greasables. Also, I recently ran some napa ujoints, and they were wiped out in less than 10k (big tires and lockers), so I'd only recommend the Spicers, and watch out for knockoffs.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear Driveshaft U-Joint Failure
Mountainman wrote:
In serious offroad situations with bigger tires or lockers involved, you definitely want the strength of the non greasables. Also, I recently ran some napa ujoints, and they were wiped out in less than 10k (big tires and lockers), so I'd only recommend the Spicers, and watch out for knockoffs.

According to what I read, Spicer (Dana) suppled the original OEM joints for Jeep manufacture. That is why I chose Spicer.
It also stated Spicer joints are made in the USA. :-)r
Moog also lists both greaseable and non-greaseable joints, but they are manufactured in China. :cry:
Don't know about NAPA joints, but you can bet someone makes them for NAPA, probably some foreign supplier.

Good quality, made in the USA parts are getting harder and harder to find nowadays. :banghead: :furious:
Author:  03black [ Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear Driveshaft U-Joint Failure
For what its worth, I replaced both of mine with heavy duty Moog greaseable through the end cap that used the grease fitting needle and just got back from Easter Jeep Safari at Moab. Ran some pretty good trails (level 6 and 7) and did not have any issues with the them, ie no breakage or bindings.
Author:  taroo [ Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear Driveshaft U-Joint Failure
So I am up next needing to replace the rear universal joints. I will buy the greasable Spicers that are listed here by WWDiesel. Never done this before so if there are any tricks to replacing them, please let me know!!! Lastly, do they come greased to start or do I install them then grease them?



WWDiesel wrote:
Mountainman wrote:
In serious offroad situations with bigger tires or lockers involved, you definitely want the strength of the non greasables. Also, I recently ran some napa ujoints, and they were wiped out in less than 10k (big tires and lockers), so I'd only recommend the Spicers, and watch out for knockoffs.

According to what I read, Spicer (Dana) suppled the original OEM joints for Jeep manufacture. That is why I chose Spicer.
It also stated Spicer joints are made in the USA. :-)r
Moog also lists both greaseable and non-greaseable joints, but they are manufactured in China. :cry:
Don't know about NAPA joints, but you can bet someone makes them for NAPA, probably some foreign supplier.

Good quality, made in the USA parts are getting harder and harder to find nowadays. :banghead: :furious:
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear Driveshaft U-Joint Failure
taroo wrote:
So I am up next needing to replace the rear universal joints. I will buy the greasable Spicers that are listed here by WWDiesel. Never done this before so if there are any tricks to replacing them, please let me know!!! Lastly, do they come greased to start or do I install them then grease them?

They will come with some grease already in them, but you should grease them a little after you get the drive shaft back installed with the new joints. It won't take much grease.
A good large vice is almost a must when replacing U-joints. The key is to go slow, take your time, and not make any mistakes.
If you are not comfortable replacing the U-joints, remove the shaft and take it to a local shop and pay them to replace the joints for you. You can furnish your own joints. Or find someone who has done it and get them to help you.
Experience doing this or watching someone else do it, comes in real handy. :wink:

This is a very good video on Youtube that takes you through all the operations of replacing the 2 U-joints on a Jeep Liberty. (17 mins. long)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k67g4azuJ7g
Author:  turblediesel [ Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear Driveshaft U-Joint Failure
Put your new u-joints in the freezer before you install them. This will help the bearings stay in place during installation.
Author:  layback40 [ Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear Driveshaft U-Joint Failure
I like to use a strong G clamp when putting together. The right sized sockets are good & a B. F. Hammer!
Author:  krb [ Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear Driveshaft U-Joint Failure
Freezer. Never thought of that!

I stole my dad's 20ton press, that is the ticket!
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