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 Post subject: CRD BLOCK MOUNTING POINTS AND BOLT SPECS FOR AN ENGINE STAND
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:33 am 
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Hello, CRD Owners:

Have anybody actually had a CRD engine out of the engine bay and mounted on an engine stand?

I am looking for the mounting points for the block and the bolt specifications, (metric or SAE, bolt diameter and thread specifications). Can anyone provide this information to me?

I have seen photos of engines pulled that have some of the bell housing attached on the transmission end and I am quite certain that this is not meant to take the weight of the engine. I am interested in mounting the engine stand directly to the block.

I understand that engines normally mount to the engine stand from the transmission end of the engine, but that engines can also be mounted to an engine stand from the side of the engine block. Has anyone seen this? I have seen such an arrangement on page 9-229 of the 2005 KJ Liberty Factory Service Manual, (page 1474 of 2401). Feedback welcome in this regard.


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 Post subject: Re: CRD BLOCK MOUNTING POINTS AND BOLT SPECS FOR AN ENGINE S
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:53 am 
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I have had many engines mounted to my four arm engine stand over the years, even some big heavy V8s.
I mounted a VM Motori to this same engine stand with no trouble.
I simply used some long 3/8 bolts with flat washers and nuts to mount the arms to the rear engine adaptor plate.

See Pictures:

Image Image Image

Picture of back side mounting plate:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: CRD BLOCK MOUNTING POINTS AND BOLT SPECS FOR AN ENGINE S
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:18 am 
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Thank you for your input, WWDiesel, but in my particular circumstance I am looking to bolt directly to the block.

I am actually trying to get the mounting points directly on the block and the bolt specifications for the following V.M. Motori engines:

R425, R428, RA428, A428, and A630.

I have send a message directly to V.M. Motori, but I am not holding my breath waiting for an answer from them. Communication with any large manufacturer has proven to be very frustrating, so I have taken the shotgun approach to this issue and am simply asking anyone I can online, including Green Diesel Engineering.

Hopefully someone can get me the specifications and mounting points I am looking for.


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 Post subject: Re: CRD BLOCK MOUNTING POINTS AND BOLT SPECS FOR AN ENGINE S
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:05 pm 
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I emailed you, but my best guess is M12-1.5 or M12-1.75

Image

You should be able to find the answer in the parts catalog... you just need to know what bolts hold the adapter to the block. Once you have that part number, Chrysler will happily tell you the thread.

It is worth noting that the *block* is metric, but the adapter is (IIRC) mixed metric and SAE. For funsies.


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 Post subject: Re: CRD BLOCK MOUNTING POINTS AND BOLT SPECS FOR AN ENGINE S
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:40 pm 
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Best I can tell from looking online, the bolts that mount the adaptor plate to the back of the engine block are M10 x 1.50 mm
So you would use M10x1.5 bolts of the correct length for you particular engine stand support arms.
If you have an engine available, it would be very easy to verify the bolt/thread size for these six threaded holes.
If this size is not correct, hopefully someone post the thread size.

These are the OEM PN's according to a couple of the Mopar Sites: 68516518AA, 05003532AC
There are six locations as pictured below that can be used for engine stand support arm mounting locations.
This same pictures applies to the 2.5 diesel engine as well.

My engine stand only has four support arms for mounting to block/engine.
Personally I like to try and mount the support arms where center of mass/weight is as close as possible to the engine stand's rotation or pivot point. This makes rotating the heavy engine much easier.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: CRD BLOCK MOUNTING POINTS AND BOLT SPECS FOR AN ENGINE S
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:44 pm 
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thesameguy and WWDiesel:

Thank you for your responses... both of your latest photographs are VERY helpful.

WWDiesel, where did you get your photo? This looks like a photo from an official source; if it is, there is a good chance the source of that photo will have the specifications for the engine stand mounting location bolt holes.


If I had a bare engine block I would indeed find out for myself. However, I do not and that is the primary reason for my inquiry.... I must get the exact bolt specifications so I can see if the following adapter kit has the correct bolts... I am hoping all of the V.M. Motori engines have the same specification bolts for their respective engine blocks.

https://pdf.directindustry.com/pdf/wern ... 65903.html


Here is the engine stand I purchased that the adapter bolts to:

https://pdf.directindustry.com/pdf/wern ... 40640.html


I purchased this equipment because I had to have professional grade shop equipment to meet the standards of the machine shop that carves the H.D.S. Model 001 housings and hose barbs. No cheap consumer grade equipment is allowed due to the consequences that would likely occur if there was a failure.

Purchasing this equipment has proven to be a problem regarding proper fitment of the adapter to V.M. Motori engines; hence the reason why I am conducting this research now. I am not happy with Werner Weitner because they are providing NO customer service in this regard.


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 Post subject: Re: CRD BLOCK MOUNTING POINTS AND BOLT SPECS FOR AN ENGINE S
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:16 pm 
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That is a very heavy duty and nice looking engine stand.
The picture with labels you asked about, I did myself.
The thread sizes I supplied to you I was able to find online.
Engine stands are NOT engine specific, they are universal and the end end user is responsible for figuring out what bolts are needed to attach the mounting arms to the engine block. It is not that hard and I am sure you will figure it out once you get your hands on a block.
:D

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Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
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SunCoast/Transgo
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GM11 bld.fan/NAPAHDClutch
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 Post subject: Re: CRD BLOCK MOUNTING POINTS AND BOLT SPECS FOR AN ENGINE S
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:03 am 
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WWDiesel wrote:
That is a very heavy duty and nice looking engine stand.
The picture with labels you asked about, I did myself.
The thread sizes I supplied to you I was able to find online.
Engine stands are NOT engine specific, they are universal and the end end user is responsible for figuring out what bolts are needed to attach the mounting arms to the engine block. It is not that hard and I am sure you will figure it out once you get your hands on a block.
:D


WWDiesel:

Apologies from me are in order here... I clearly misunderstood what you were posting above. I thought what you posted was your best guesstimate on bolt size and specifications after looking online, not actual specifications that you found while looking online.

I tried to look up part numbers 68516518AA and 05003532AC on the Mopar Canada Parts website and got absolutely nowhere. Specifically, what are these part numbers, where specifically can I find a description of them and how do they help me?

Where precisely did you search to get this information? I will need to follow the same methodology as you did to get the specifications for all of the other V.M. Motori engines I listed above, (R425, R428, RA428, A428 and A630).

If you are somewhat unclear as to why I am fussing over this, it is because I require the information BEFORE I get a crate engine delivered here from Michigan. I want to be able to mount the engine on the stand immediately upon delivery of the engine so that all of my recent purchases take up as little floor space as possible at the machine shop.


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 Post subject: Re: CRD BLOCK MOUNTING POINTS AND BOLT SPECS FOR AN ENGINE S
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:33 pm 
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I've not really seen many situations where a manufacture explains precisely how to mount an engine to a generic stand. Usually, there is a factory tool a shop will purchase that has a specific shape and size and includes specific hardware to do the job. There's no place the hardware is documented since it's included with the tool. GM, for example, simply says something like "Attach GM Tool J-41347 to the engine and affix to table J-39580." When using a universal stand, it's generally a bit more seat of the pants.


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 Post subject: Re: CRD BLOCK MOUNTING POINTS AND BOLT SPECS FOR AN ENGINE S
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:03 pm 
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I'm curious what Bolts you ended up using. You have a nice title to your thread but not the correct answer

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 Post subject: Re: CRD BLOCK MOUNTING POINTS AND BOLT SPECS FOR AN ENGINE S
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:32 pm 
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SC RIGGR wrote:
I'm curious what Bolts you ended up using. You have a nice title to your thread but not the correct answer



Sorry for my delay in getting back to you all. It is summer after all, and I have to keep the family happy, plus additional family obligations like organizing a special celebration of my Grandmother's 100th birthday... trying to do this during COVID-19 and when my Grandmother is in a senior's care home is difficult to say the least.

I received information from one of my Model 001 customers who helped me to secure the RA428 engine in Michigan. He went and personally inspected the engine he has in storage for me. It turns out that the engine block bolt hole specifications are M10 x 1.5 and M12 x 1.75. The expensive Werner-Weitner engine adapter kit components will work on V.M. Motori engines. This was the whole point of getting answers from people through LOSTJEEPS.com and through the Jeep Liberty CRD Facebook Page... to see if the engine adapter components will work. Here is the link to the engine adapter I purchased; specifically, I purchased the WW-6-140K...


http://www.parla-tech.com/ww-6140-unive ... dapter.php


Purchasing the Werner-Weitner WW-MG-600V engine stand and the accessories turned out to be a massive PITA. The Canadian distributor sent me a stand that had been in their warehouse for over 9 years, and was delivered to me looking used. They insist it is little storage dings only and that it is still brand new. Too bad that Werner-Weitner will no longer warranty it; they are high brow jerks and are impossible to deal with. I was very angry over this, especially after spending close to $4400.00 CDN for the stand, the engine adapter tools, and a transmission adapter.

I stopped the payment through my credit card, and then had to re-negotiate with the distributor for a new price. The Canadian distributor gave me $1000.00 CDN plus and extra $50.00 CDN in tax back. They sent a written message that they will cover the stand and all of the other components for the normal warranty period, and they also are sending new plastic end caps for the engine stand base as well as touch up paint. I agreed with this deal; hopefully there will be no more surprises.


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