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Murphy's Leak Law
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=91970		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  thesameguy [ Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Murphy's Leak Law
When I pulled the motor, I replaced pretty much everything that could leak... except, obviously, the power steering system. Because it's leaking.

The symptom is a drip at the very front edge of the truck. It looks like it's collecting on the sway bar... Does anyone know what leak might collect there and what the repair entails? I'm really not up for dismantling the whole front end again, so if that's where I'm at I will probably live with it.
Author:  layback40 [ Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Murphy's Leak Law
Murphy was a very smart man.
He also came up with "The law of selective gravity" that is why when you drop something it will always land on the surface that does the most damage.
There is also "The damaged thread theory". When ever trying to start to screw a bolt in, the extent of the damaged thread in the nut is determined by how difficult it is to get at the nut.
Also "The Brightness theory", people always appear brighter until they open their mouth.
Your leak sounds more like a auto trans cooler leak.I didnt think that there was any power steering stuff that far forward.
Author:  thesameguy [ Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Murphy's Leak Law
Virtually positive it's not the trans cooler - those hoses are new and bone dry. I can see them clearly from underneath. Plus, amber fluid and not red.
Author:  PZKW108 [ Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Murphy's Leak Law
thesameguy wrote:
Virtually positive it's not the trans cooler - those hoses are new and bone dry. I can see them clearly from underneath. Plus, amber fluid and not red.


I would say intercooler or a front axle seal....
Author:  thesameguy [ Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Murphy's Leak Law
Digging around up there I think it's the power steering hose. Digging around in the fiche, it looks like the entire return hose and cooler is one giant assembly. Digging around on the internet, it's a $300+ part. Because Chrysler.
Author:  thesameguy [ Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Murphy's Leak Law
On second look, it may be the ATF cooler. That's... Better?
Author:  GeoJD [ Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Murphy's Leak Law
That sux. On mine, the bend in the short power steering hard pipe right in the center below where the fan would sit magically started leaking while I was figuring out whether I was going to pull the engine. It was fine one night, and when I came back a couple of nights later, all of my power steering fluid was on the floor. It soaked the pad inside the skid plate, and ended up leaking out way back by the motor mount. It's crazy, because at the time, I still had the ac/trans cooler in place, so I'm pretty sure nothing collided with it. At least it's easy for me to get to at the moment...
Author:  thesameguy [ Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Murphy's Leak Law
I wiped the whole area clean, and I found what could be ATF literally sweating out of the cooler. I couldn't identify a singular leak point... it's just damp. Really weird. I'm gonna let it go for a short while and see what happens... it originally assume it was power steering fluid because of the color and the location, but looking at the parts fiche that power steering hose in question is the low side, so any sort of pressurized spray is unlikely. I think it's dark colored because it's dripping so far. I just can't wrap my head around "sweating ATF cooler."

On the upside, if that's what it is, I will just cut the lines, install some other cooler, and call it a day. It'll actually be cheaper and easier, so maybe a blessing.
Author:  TKB4 [ Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Murphy's Leak Law
Power steering fluid should appear the same color as ATF fluid since they are both ATF 4 transmission fluid or at least I think so. Amber ? coolant ?. Just wrote for future viewers . It sounds like you found the source.
Author:  thesameguy [ Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Murphy's Leak Law
I don't truly know what's in the power steering system, but the transmission has 2000 miles on the fluid and it's *bright* red and the power steering might have 180000 miles on it and it's not. :D

I've started looking casually at replacement transmission coolers. Since I'm not trying to solve a problem, I just want to basically replicate the stock cooler. I'm leaning towards Setrab as I've used many of their oil coolers in the past with great results. They're a bit pricey, but they make a quality part. Their SLM range is a long, narrow cooler with formal end tanks and edge-mounted bungs which would would fit great right under the bumper... The two I'm looking at are

53-10744-01 which is 12.60" long, 4.06" tall and sheds 14,000-15,000 BTU/hr with a 0.53 psi pressure drop
53-10747-01 which is 19.29" long, 4.06" tall and sheds 22,000-24,000 BTU/hr with a 0.76 psi pressure drop

The opening in the bumper is 22" wide and just under 5" tall so either of these would fit fine. I think the smaller cooler does the job handily... I don't think a small vehicle like the Jeep really needs the larger cooler.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Murphy's Leak Law
This is what I used. A Derale 10 plate stacked transmission fluid cooler with AN fittings.
It fit the opening perfectly under the bumper and I liked the super reliable AN fittings so I don't have to worry about leaks. See pictures below.
They also have remote coolers with thermostatic controlled fan if you want to put the cooler somewhere else.
Purchased it from Summit Racing along with the AN 90 deg. hose fittings.

The absolute biggest improvement I found was installing the deeps sump PML finned aluminum transmission oil pan, it dropped the transmission oil temperature ~40 degrees when towing a loaded trailer. Worth every penny I spent on it and I wish I had done it several years ago.
It took 9 quarts of ATF to refill transmission when I installed it. Volume does make a big difference.
It only added about 2 inches more to the bottom of the transmission.

[u]Derale High Flow 10 Row Series 10000 Stack Plate Transmission Cooler Kit[/u]
https://derale.com/product-footer/fluid ... 401-detail
Image
Image

Deep sump PML oil pan:
Image
Author:  thesameguy [ Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Murphy's Leak Law
That's pretty much the install I'm looking at doing. Are you using only the external cooler, or did you retain the factory cooler as well? Where are the inlet/outlet? On the top or the bottom?
Author:  WWDiesel [ Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Murphy's Leak Law
thesameguy wrote:
That's pretty much the install I'm looking at doing. Are you using only the external cooler, or did you retain the factory cooler as well? Where are the inlet/outlet? On the top or the bottom?

Using both coolers, in series with the OEM, OEM first and Darale second.
Inlet and outlet are both on the top of the cooler so there would be no drain back issues.

Cooling line locations on the transmission:
Image
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