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Timing Belt Change w/o timing tools?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=92195		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  dtreid [ Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Timing Belt Change w/o timing tools?
Looking at changing the timing belt in my crd.

Have done a bunch of VW TDIs simply by marking and counting teeth on the belt and pulleys before it is pulled off. Marking the new belt and installing it carefully so all the marks line up.

Is there any reason this couldn't be done with my Liberty? Just asking before I get into it.
Author:  WWDiesel [ Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt Change w/o timing tools?
dtreid wrote:
Looking at changing the timing belt in my crd.
Have done a bunch of VW TDIs simply by marking and counting teeth on the belt and pulleys before it is pulled off. Marking the new belt and installing it carefully so all the marks line up.
Is there any reason this couldn't be done with my Liberty? Just asking before I get into it.

Nothing at all like doing a VW. Marks on cam pulleys are meaningless. Both Cams and Crankshaft flywheel must be "pinned" with special tools to set timing.

You must have the proper tools and know how to correctly change the timing belt on the VM Motori 2.8 diesel engine.
There are several YouTube videos that will show you how it is done properly.
You must be handy with doing your own maintenance and repairs to do this job.

This is one of the better YouTube videos (2 part series)
Jeep Liberty 2.8 CRD Timing Belt Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIbBPUlVDdM&t=1s

Jeep Liberty 2.8 CRD Timing Belt Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41llMzXrntg

The Factory Service Manual is available for reading online or downloading here:> http://www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/
The FSM covers timing belt replacement in detail.

There are a couple of members of this forum who specialize on this engine and travel doing timing belt replacements if you are interested just ask.
Author:  My66dodge [ Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt Change w/o timing tools?
I hate to be that guy but as a guy who does this for a living I must interject, you can do it without the tools if you mark everything like you are referring to. It’s the same way we do all cars even with the tools, mark the belt and pulleys and transfer the marks to the new belt and line the marks up and if you marked it right it’s good to go. The tools are there so if it’s off a tooth you can put it on correctly. The tools are only TrueType a must if you take off the cam pulleys r the belt is off by a tooth otherwise it’s no different than any other timing belt. As a European repair shop we do a LOT of timing belts, just last month we did our first 2018 Volvo 2.0 it had 120k miles and we had to get the procedure from the dealer because it wasn’t in Mitchell or alldata yet, we did 4 of the newer TDI’s in the last month alone


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Author:  WWDiesel [ Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt Change w/o timing tools?
My66dodge wrote:
I hate to be that guy but as a guy who does this for a living I must interject, you can do it without the tools if you mark everything like you are referring to. It’s the same way we do all cars even with the tools, mark the belt and pulleys and transfer the marks to the new belt and line the marks up and if you marked it right it’s good to go. The tools are there so if it’s off a tooth you can put it on correctly. The tools are only TrueType a must if you take off the cam pulleys r the belt is off by a tooth otherwise it’s no different than any other timing belt. As a European repair shop we do a LOT of timing belts, just last month we did our first 2018 Volvo 2.0 it had 120k miles and we had to get the procedure from the dealer because it wasn’t in Mitchell or alldata yet, we did 4 of the newer TDI’s in the last month alone

My answer was solely based on the standard recommended practice of replacing the water pump when replacing the timing belt which does require the removal of both cam pulleys.
When both of the cam pulleys are removed, any marks or tooth counts are totally worthless and the engine MUST be retimed correctly using the timing pins as outlined and explained in detail in the Factory Service Manual.
Why would anyone NOT replace the water pump when going to all the trouble and expense to perform a timing belt replacement service on this engine is highly unusual indeed.

Yes, if you don't remove the cam pulleys to replace the water pump, you can mark all the pulleys, count the teeth, etc..but why would anyone take that chance....
The water pump on these engines have been known to fail, leaking seals, or worse yet total bearing failure which causes catastrophic failure of the timing belt and subsequent broken rockers etc...repairs gets very expensive when this happens.
If any shop is only replacing the timing belt and leaving the water pump untouched, they are doing a huge disservice to their customer IMHO. :2cents:
If you search LOSTJeeps, there are horror stories posted in the past concerning water pump failures causing total timing belt system failure....I don't make this stuff up! :wink:

But as always, it's your vehicle, you are your own warranty provider and if the owner wants to cut corners and take chances with expensive engine failures, so be it... :banghead:
Author:  My66dodge [ Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Timing Belt Change w/o timing tools?
I always replace the water pump but you wouldn’t believe the amount of people and dealers who don’t, the Honda and Subaru dealers for example beat our prices every time for a timing belt job because they just replace the belt. Yes best practice is to replace the timing belt, timing idlers, timing tensioner, water pump, thermostat, serpentine belt, serpentine idlers, serpentine tensioner, and new coolant… but soo many people don’t follow best practices so I was just stating that if a guy was being cheap like soo many do then you can do the belt without removing the pulleys… look at how many guys buy from O’Reilly’s and Autozone and rock auto and 1a auto it shows how many people look at price over quality and a good job…


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Author:  dskater411 [ Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt Change w/o timing tools?
Ill add some notes as I did this myself a few years back.

- The official miller tools are absurdly expensive, I know some places you can rent them for a fee, but there's a good thread on how to make your cam pins with a couple bolts from the hardware store, a bench grinder and an hour of your time. I did this and it was pretty successful:
viewtopic.php?f=98&t=72201

-Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the crank pin is necessary, you should be able to keep that one locked with a screwdriver or at least mark it well enough. I don't remember needing a pin there.

-I personally had a really tough time keeping the cam gears locked together well when putting the timing belt back on even with the locking pins and rented a generic cam gear locking tool from o'reillys to assist and it worked well.
Author:  Big Wrench [ Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt Change w/o timing tools?
I’m a mechanic, I don’t think you’ll get away with doing a timing belt job on this engine without the correct tool set. FWIW you can buy a Chinese set of timing tools for this engine off ebay for pretty cheap, that’s what I did
Author:  rankom [ Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Belt Change w/o timing tools?
the way I did it years ago without tools I pinned the flywheel with 6mm allenkey and put drill bits in each cam (can't remember bit size) remove cam sprockets bolts with 3/8 air impact wrench. replace belts, tensioner, water pump, etc... at this time the exhaust cam did not move, so I zipped the bolt on with the 3/8. but the problem was intake side. it was under load from valve train. it went slightly counter clockwise looking at the drill bit it was not horizontal. so no big deal. I removed the Allenkey and exhaust side exhaust cam drill bit and rotated cam crankshaft a few degrees counter clockwise and I zipped it with the 3/8s air impact intake cam sprocket. at this time I removed the drill bit went clockwise until everything lined up correctly and used VW tool to retorque cam sprockets. and it is still running since 2014.
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