died on the highway

riggler · **Posted:** Mon May 08, 2023 3:00 am

So my last post was is a transmission rebuild worth it ?
So i pulled the trigger on a new transmission and been using it for a few weeks, and it ran well,but....
Last week we were on a little trip out of state and on the way home, in a driving rain, while on a congested highway, at night,
the witch died...65 plus in the left lane, and then, nothing, just faded away. When i turned it over it sounded normal, just no start.
Triple A dragged it to the nearest commuter lot and we ubered the last 75 miles home , the drivers tesla needed to be charged on the way in to add further insult to injury.
The next day I took my truck to pick it up.
I brought my old scanner with me to see if there were any codes, I got a generic code for camshaft position sensor
I ordered a new one from id along with a map sensor (just because), a new set of glow plugs and relay for them.
So after changing the sensor it still wouldnt fire up. I then tried pulling off the intercooler hose and giving it a snort of starting fluid, It wouldnt even make any smoke, let alone fire up.
My next thought was that the timing belt either failed or jumped time, so I removed the top 3 bolts on the timing cover and pried the cover away a little to look at the belt....still plenty of tension and no visible scars, frays, or tears,and rotates as it should.
I went and bought a newer scanner and it still is giving a P0340 code.
I opened up the harness up a bit and could find no broken, frayed wires, i pulled out the new sensor, put elect. contact cleaner on the pins and made sure none were bent and then reinstalled the new sensor.....nada,
I have heard that sometimes you can get a bum sensor out of the box, but Im thinking there must be another issue.

First question with a no fuel contdition, but with the use of either, shouldnt I get some indication of a start?

Second question where does the camshaft position sensor get its power from ? fuse ? relay?

suggestions of what i should try next ?

Sorry for the long note and thank you in advance for your input, steve

03black · **Posted:** Mon May 08, 2023 11:02 am

Not related to your questions but a couple of thoughts....

Did you prime the fuel filter by pumping the plunger to make sure that you had fuel (the button should be hard to press if primed all the way) assuming you did not install a fuel lift pump.

Since you had the transmission out, are you sure that crank shaft position sensor is installed all the way with the heat shield to protect it? The crank shaft sensor has been known to go bad and stop the engine from running without warning. It below the turbo and exhaust manifold near the bell housing.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon May 08, 2023 11:16 am

Could be your crankshaft position sensor? They are notorious for failing and not setting any DTCs.
Does it sound like it has ANY compression when you spin the engine over with the starter?
Spraying starting fluid is a big no no on this engine with it's aluminum head, very dangerous!
And, spraying anything into the turbo suction hose is too far away from the engine to get a reaction.

This is the wiring for the Camshaft Position Sensor:

riggler · **Posted:** Mon May 08, 2023 12:53 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

Could be your crankshaft position sensor? They are notorious for failing and not setting any DTCs.
Does it sound like it has ANY compression when you spin the engine over with the starter?
Spraying starting fluid is a big no no on this engine with it's aluminum head, very dangerous!
And, spraying anything into the turbo suction hose is too far away from the engine to get a reaction.

This is the wiring for the Camshaft Position Sensor:

Thanks for the drawing....
I took the intercooler hose off on the drivers side which makes it a rather short run to the intake inlet, especially after the weeks kit, whish eliminates the fcv....
Since 2 or 3 of my glow plugs are not working i figured no harm, no foul with the either....
I had the trans done by a trans shop, so i dont know what they did or didnt do, but there was no heat shield around the crank sensor....been so long since i had the engine out of it (i2016) i cant remember if it was there or not.
I also have a crank sensor , but after looking at where it is, i was hoping that i didnt have to change it....is it easier to go from the top or the bottom to acess it ?
Before starting attemps i did pump up the filter head
I gueas the next thing i will try ia to see if there is 5 volts at the sensor pin ?
Thanks steve

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon May 08, 2023 1:11 pm

It is easiest to change the crank sensor from bottom in my opinion. Go up by the exhaust pipe, a little tight, but doable. :wink:

If you do it from the top, you have to remove several things to gain access to the area.

riggler · **Posted:** Mon May 08, 2023 4:38 pm

So if the crank sensor fails it doesnt throw a code ?
is it possible that if the crank sensor fails it also makes.the cam.sensor loose power ?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon May 08, 2023 10:13 pm

riggler wrote:

So if the crank sensor fails it doesn't throw a code ?
is it possible that if the crank sensor fails it also makes.the cam.sensor loose power ?

No, they have separate and distinct circuits externally. How they are supplied inside the ECM I have no idea as we have never been able to find or seen a logic diagram for the internals inside the ECM. :furious:

riggler · **Posted:** Sun May 21, 2023 4:07 pm

So I got a chance to mess around with the liberty.....still no bueno
still cranks with only an occasional stumble that gives one a faint hope of ignition.....
what i have done and in the order I have done to it
pulled codes from an entry level harbor freight scanner (at least 10 yrs old) showed 2 bad glow plugs and a cam position sensor
changed cam position sensor, no dice....pulled intake hose at the intercooler and gave it a snort of either, no change
still showing a cam position sensor code....ordered another cam position sensor
I checked signal voltage at the plug, and got 5 volts on the above power pin , and a ground when the ignition key is on, so that appears ok.

at this point i thought it might have jumped time, so i took the top bolts off the timing cover, pried it open a bit to check the timing belt,
no visible so tears or frays, belt like new, so i think that is ok.

Changed 2nd cam position sensor, no start, no change

pulled fuel filter, dumped fuel and checked for debris or water, no water and minimal debris from filter, fill with clean fuel and reinstall
change crankshaft position sensor (with ham hands and sausage fingers layin on the floor, a terrible job) try to restart .... no change
my scanner is still showing a cam positioner code (generic), so after the code is cleared it comes back while cranking.
EDIT: before I packed it in for today, i cleared the camshaft position sensor code, gave it a small snort, and gave it a good 15 second start
attempt, no start, BUT, there was no camshaft position sensor code...gee progress ?

Im lost on what to do next........anyone have any ideas ? Now that is has a new transmission i have to figure this out !

Can anyone recommend a scan tool that can read jeep ? The one I purchased a couple weeks ago didnt do jeep, so i returned it.

In the end it will probaly be something simple ( and stupid) but to just die like it did and not even run on a sniff or either has me baffled....
If you made it this far, thanks for reading, steve

cobalt72 · **Joined:** Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:56 am **Posts:** 115

My friend mentioned they are using Autel MaxiCom scan tool.

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2023 4:22 am

I know you peaked at the timing belt, but I would say verify it by getting the timing locking pins and see if they go in once you set the crank to the correct position. This would rule out any jump in timing.

Sent from my SM-S906W using Tapatalk

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2023 1:36 pm

It concerns me that when you tried starting fluid, (which is real bad on aluminum head engines), it did not even try to start.
That tends to tell me you do not have proper compression to ignite the fuel.
Leaving all electronics aside, a diesel engine should try to start when fuel is introduced manually provided the engine has proper compression and is getting proper air flow into the combustion chamber.
Three things make diesel engines run, air, fuel, & proper compression. Appears you have one of them missing?

Just as WolverineFW posted, it would be prudent to set the engine up at the 3:00 crankshaft timing position and see if the the cam timing pins will freely insert.
You got to check the basics first and rule out any timing issues. Without proper timing, nothing else you do will make one iota of difference.

riggler · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2023 8:39 pm

riggler wrote:

So I got a chance to mess around with the liberty.....still no bueno
still cranks with only an occasional stumble that gives one a faint hope of ignition.....
what i have done and in the order I have done to it
pulled codes from an entry level harbor freight scanner (at least 10 yrs old) showed 2 bad glow plugs and a cam position sensor
changed cam position sensor, no dice....pulled intake hose at the intercooler and gave it a snort of either, no change
still showing a cam position sensor code....ordered another cam position sensor
I checked signal voltage at the plug, and got 5 volts on the above power pin , and a ground when the ignition key is on, so that appears ok.

at this point i thought it might have jumped time, so i took the top bolts off the timing cover, pried it open a bit to check the timing belt,
no visible so tears or frays, belt like new, so i think that is ok.

Changed 2nd cam position sensor, no start, no change

pulled fuel filter, dumped fuel and checked for debris or water, no water and minimal debris from filter, fill with clean fuel and reinstall
change crankshaft position sensor (with ham hands and sausage fingers layin on the floor, a terrible job) try to restart .... no change
my scanner is still showing a cam positioner code (generic), so after the code is cleared it comes back while cranking.
EDIT: before I packed it in for today, i cleared the camshaft position sensor code, gave it a small snort, and gave it a good 15 second start
attempt, no start, BUT, there was no camshaft position sensor code...gee progress ?

Im lost on what to do next........anyone have any ideas ? Now that is has a new transmission i have to figure this out !

Can anyone recommend a scan tool that can read jeep ? The one I purchased a couple weeks ago didnt do jeep, so i returned it.

In the end it will probaly be something simple ( and stupid) but to just die like it did and not even run on a sniff or either has me baffled....
If you made it this far, thanks for reading, steve

So i had a bit of time after work tonight, I removed the supply line from the filter head and installed a clear line to a bug sprayer tank and pumped it up a bit to get positive fuel flow in the the filter assembly, ( brand new sprayer ,flushed a quart of fuel through it first), bled it , pumped it up , bled it again and tried cranking it over ( figured this way i could check to see if i was sucking air ), no change.

One thing i didnt mention was that an hour before it died I had an incident where i thought the throttle stuck when I had to hammer it a bit pulling out in to traffic..... I was able to reach down and pull at the floor mat, but to be honest I wasnt really sure that the pedal was stuck on the mat....

If the throttle position (Accelerator Pedal) fails would that shut down the engine and prevent restart? Would it failing throw a code ?

I get your point on checking for it jumping time, but i had helper when i pulled the timing cover back and had him hit the starter.... many times,
watched the belt for its whole length, pushed and pulled on the timing belt ( the tension made it almost impossible to find slack), looked perfect.
has anyone ever heard of one jumping time with a good tensioner and belt ?

Im thinking the next thing i will try when I get some time is to crack open an injector line to confirm they are getting fuel...any other ideas ?

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2023 10:20 pm

I still think you should physically check if it is in time with the pins in.

Otherwise, explain the camshaft sensor codes?? You already loaded up the parts cannon on that part and you still have the code. Maybe the sensor is good and is trying to tell you something......

Sent from my SM-S906W using Tapatalk

riggler · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2023 10:53 pm

WolverineFW wrote:

I still think you should physically check if it is in time with the pins in.

Otherwise, explain the camshaft sensor codes?? You already loaded up the parts cannon on that part and you still have the code. Maybe the sensor is good and is trying to tell you something......

Sent from my SM-S906W using Tapatalk

EDIT: before I packed it in for today, i cleared the camshaft position sensor code, gave it a small snort, and gave it a good 15 second start
attempt, no start, BUT, there was no camshaft position sensor code...gee progress ?

DieselJeepLuvr · **Posted:** Sun Jun 11, 2023 2:15 pm

died on the highway

Who is online