2005 CRD Transmission Removal

jagster936 · **Joined:** Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:06 pm **Posts:** 210

I do appreciate it you're good at summarizing that! I have read that scattered all over it's good to have it here for everyone. My next step is to scan for codes/observe "actual pressure" vs "expected pressure" same with temps and whatnot in a high end scan tool to see if any info can be gleamed! I will report everything back I find. Due to work this may be a long slow process but I will eventually figure it out

I don't want to throw parts at it but try to deduce likely problem with more evidence.

What I was not able to find, is a review of the product here, DRBIII emulator. Do you know any mechanics that use such a system? These are the only guys that sell a formal product like this, but no info online anywhere. There are other ways to use Chinese Code readers to make it work but its a lot of convoluted information.

https://www.controllertech.com/products ... i-emulator

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:41 pm

I still think replacing the shift solenoid may be your key. :2cents:

A DRBIII is the Chrysler Mopar Dealer scanner. Any Mopar dealer should have one. Some shops that specialize in Mopar vehicles also have them.
But keep in mind, many high end scanners like Snap On Verus Pro and the Thinktool Pro Bi-Directional Scanner can perform most of the functions of the DRBIII.

jagster936 · **Joined:** Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:06 pm **Posts:** 210

Yea I just need more info. It acts too predictably to for sure be that. I would be really annoyed to do that and all that work and it be a line pressure sensor or a real overheat. Or the shifter assembly thing with the small temp sensor element in it! I'll see what I can figure out!

I need to rent a DRBIII or find someone with one. Or try to get an emulator to work but that's a huge project if I do myself probably. I could try it's worth 2500 eh, haha.

I think anything that can read the TCM would be able to view the PID's I'm interested in like temp, pressure, expected pressure and temp, etc.

I'm stuck working in field while the jeep torments me from afar. Plenty of hotel time to work on software emulators though lol

https://www.fcawitech.com/aftermarket/

These are some other aftermarket guys that are intertwined with all this. I've been down this road with German cars I spent many many hours getting stuff to talk and communicate right, databases etc. Not something I feel like doing, yet :twisted:

03black · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2023 8:46 pm

Just as an FYI I've rented a DRB III from here:

https://controllertech.com/products/drb-iii-rental

It was $125 for 3 days with a deposit, but you get the deposit back when you return the tool. Might be what your looking for.

jagster936 · **Joined:** Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:06 pm **Posts:** 210

I am aware of them, very interested in questions for someone who actually rented one! I just emailed them with some questions

1. Did it work? Does it talk to our Jeep Liberty CRD's?
2. Does the hardware cable provided work with our jeep? I noticed ones on ebay have several cable variations like 10+ sometimes, not sure what is required for our Jeeps!

Thanks! I will def consider them. I'm actually working 3 hrs from their location thought about driving over there lol, then I can drive it back over later on as I'm driving home soon.

03black · **Posted:** Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:41 am

jagster936 wrote:

I am aware of them, very interested in questions for someone who actually rented one! I just emailed them with some questions

1. Did it work? Does it talk to our Jeep Liberty CRD's?
2. Does the hardware cable provided work with our jeep? I noticed ones on ebay have several cable variations like 10+ sometimes, not sure what is required for our Jeeps!

Thanks! I will def consider them. I'm actually working 3 hrs from their location thought about driving over there lol, then I can drive it back over later on as I'm driving home soon.

Yes it worked great for me. I was able to do a pinion reset (calibrate the speedometer) after I changed to 4:10 gears, program an extra key fob (I only had 1 Key fob and no extra keys), program the injector coding to cylinder after my rebuild, and at the time did a TCM quick learn since I had it.

You need to install the program emulator onto a laptop as the interface but otherwise it was just following the on screen prompts and do what it told you to do. The interface layout on the laptop was just like using the real thing but using your curser and mouse clicks vs. your finger tapping a button.

jagster936 · **Joined:** Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:06 pm **Posts:** 210

Very nice. Oh so you used the emulator not the physical device?

I’m working on micropod 2 clone emulator virtual machine project now myself to get that going and keep it. In the mean time I may need to rent one of theirs. There is a guy on YouTube which guides you through the process.

https://youtu.be/5JIKKhYhSxM?si=AIxFZz8fJcoeHM8S

03black · **Posted:** Thu Aug 24, 2023 12:58 pm

jagster936 wrote:

Very nice. Oh so you used the emulator not the physical device?
...

Yes on the emulator. They did not have the actual DRB III device for rental

jagster936 · **Joined:** Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:06 pm **Posts:** 210

Alright as an update:

I tried to get Chinese clone tool to work and was able to read PCM, not any other module, which is typical until you get the right hardware or solder a pin to ground, I'll work on that maybe sometime

The Controller Tech emulator was disappointing because they sent me faulty hardware. It connected just a few times of over 100 tries, the USB port I think has a hardware problem inside the device. I got it to go long enough to do some troubleshooting though. Their software is GREAT, works perfectly IF the hardware is talking. As soon as I would move it or try to drive it would typically drop out. I got the below screens though, proving this is a real overheat. Temperature would slowly rise. I think I'm not getting flow through the lines for some reason.

See wwdiesel this is why I don't just replace things, a new transmission even would do same thing, let alone a valve body or solenoid module.

I also did a thermal scan with a small camera I have on the lines, and it showed 125 on one side and 200 on the other, depending on where on the line I was up the cooler. It was like 110 and 165 or something near the radiator. I would guess there is great cooling (no?) or ZERO cooling. I'm going with the latter and I think something is plugging the flows. How to find it will be the next project.

It isn't super obvious how the transmission cooler is laid out up there, it looks like it's on the same plane as the AC condenser but I'm not sure if they are different or snugged up together or what. I saw one guy on here install an additional or oversized cooler as factory wasn't enough. Hmmmm...?

DRBiii is amazing powerful tool. Worth 2500? I'm not sure, but I'm tempted, if one is to keep this jeep for the long haul. But controller tech hasn't proven to me their hardware is worth a flip.

Finally, I did a quick learn on the TCM, and the harsh jumps into D and R seem to be all but gone. Especially drive it would like to hit hard, but so far that's gone.

Fault code

Initial reading after idoling a while

OH reading

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Sep 03, 2023 1:12 pm

jagster936 wrote:

See wwdiesel this is why I don't just replace things, a new transmission even would do same thing, let alone a valve body or solenoid module.

Disclaimer wrote:

Advice is based on finds and fixes as reported over the years by many members on this forum as they have posted their problem(s) and / or issue(s) and what they did or ultimately found that cured or repaired their issue. Advice by posters is free, whether or not you choose to follow it is your choice, but it is strongly advised to always do your own due diligence and research along with a proper diagnosis when dealing with an issue on these very unique vehicles. What worked for one person may or may not work for the next one. Many times, the symptoms are quite common and are of a known issue along with an established fix or repair of the issue which could involve the replacement of a part or several parts.

Now to your issue:
Do you have good air flow through the radiator stack? Is everything clean externally on the radiator stack. Are both cooling fans operating properly, mechanical fan clutch in good shape etc... Any of these problems can cause improper cooling issues as found and reported in the past by owners on this forum.

Stoppage of the fluid flow through the transmission cooler is not something that I can remember anyone reporting on before. Pretty much unheard of that I can remember but certainly not impossible! Weird problems can happen. :shock:

200 degrees fluid out of the transmission going to the cooler on a hot day is very normal if you are working the vehicle. I have a Tee block in my fluid line to the the cooler which allows me to read fluid temperature going TO the cooler and another sensor in the transmission pan to read fluid temperature after it has been cooled. When driving in high 90's especially pulling a loaded trailer, it is normal to see 200+ on the fluid temperature going to the cooler, and 180 in the pan. I have a switch that allows me to switch between sensors using only one gauge.

IF indeed you are having low flow issues on the cooling system, it could be from a problem inside the transmission; filter loose or stopped up, front oil pump failure, etc... The nipple that the screw on fluid filter inside the oil pan is made out of plastic and there have been some reports of that nipple cracking or breaking off allowing loss of fluid pressure. There are metal ones available to replace the plastic nipple. See picture 1

You could remove the cooler lines where they are connected to the side of the transmission and blow air into one of them and see what comes out and what the flow rate seems like. See picture 2

The transmission cooler is the lower third of the combined AC condenser/transmission cooler as pictured below. See picture 3

PICTURE 1

PICTURE 2

PICTURE 3

jagster936 · **Joined:** Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:06 pm **Posts:** 210

Haha nice disclaimer

Fans good, fins don't look that bad etc. I never get the easy ones, I'm probably the rare cursed low flow guy haha. I will check into it more when I get a chance. Need to pull lines check flow blow air through it etc (not into tranny but the cooler). Seems highly unlikely to be blocked but what else can cause this. The return line was same temp as ambient area when idoling (all hot from fan but same temp). It's possible that's by luck but a flow test through a clear tube can confirm it's flowing through lines and blow air through cooler to confirm no blockage, or put a clear section of tube somehow between cooler and return line, haha. Who knows..

Thanks for the info on your temps very helpful. Could you assume the return line temp is close to the temp of the oil pan? If there are other flow loops from the pan internally to the tranny that would raise the temp in the pan relative to return line. 200 is pretty high but beats 244

. I'll let yall know what I find when I get a chance.

All filters etc is new, this issue existed BEFORE I did anything to it, so I don't think it's filter or nipple related.

It's extremely hard to get to those lines there and I wasn't able to get the top line to clear the side of the body cavity up there, and exhaust pipe makes it very hard to do anything, how frustrating. I'll see what I can find from the front. A clear tube between the lines and running the engine will tell me a lot. They aren't easy to get at either it doesn't look like.

One good question, in PARK will it pump fluid through the cooler or only NEUTRAL?

Remember pump filters etc new, shouldn't be that. I was careful to not over tighten. Transmission otherwise shifts perfectly.

Yea combined into condensor, 10-4. Thanks!

As a reference, tranny temp of my half ton chevy work truck was 143 driving around, hot weather. On moms tundra about 160 or so on the hot side coming into cooler, 150 coming out, about a 10 degree drop. Something fishy going on for sure with all this. Wonder why our transmissions tend to run so HOT!

DieselJeepLuvr · **Posted:** Mon Sep 04, 2023 1:01 am

High tranny temperatures are almost always associated with frictions failing or torque converter failing.

jagster936 · **Joined:** Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:06 pm **Posts:** 210

DieselJeepLuvr wrote:

High tranny temperatures are almost always associated with frictions failing or torque converter failing.

Not in my case! And I don't think so, many variables with this stuff. I will update and hopefully close this nightmare thread now.

Firstly, I gave in and purchased the Controller Tech DRBiii emulator. Works perfectly, unlike their rental nightmare unit which barely worked at all. Had a bad USB port that was loose or something which would mostly NOT work. I figured keeping this crazy jeep for long haul I'll need it again. I had enough of reading the chinese clone stuff and trying to get it to work, though I may still try the solder (purchased a video microscope to micro solder and nice solder station). Even people who successfully ground whatever pin it doesn't always work for them.

I fixed two different things today. Wheel speed sensor drivers side. That wasn't hard, have to remove brake caliper etc to get to it. I measured the ABS module side and got my 12V. I also measured resistance of old sensor and new one. Both measured the same 350k or so. Doesn't mean they both work though. Read the ABS module, cleared code, and read the MPH with DRBiii

and it was all good. Previously it read ZERO. ALSO, as before with rear differential speed sensor, the outside ambient temp read way off, like stuck at 83 or something when 100+ out. Once I fixed the sensor it returned to normal readings. Silly Chrysler engineering...ugh.

For the transmission cooling mess, I disconnected lines and ran a clear tube between them I had. started jeep in park and it was flowing clear and perfect, could even feel it like a water hose. Turned off. I took another clear tube and blew through the cooler (bottom of condenser) making sure I had a good seal, and it was very hard to blow! My best guess it has an issue or is clogged somehow. Rare...but call me a first WWDIESEL hahaha.

Secondly, I installed Oreilly Hayden 11x11 cooler on drivers side. It barely fit, kept hitting the fan etc on the left side. I made a couple of brackets and hung it from top and sort of zip tied the bottom. Just used black rubber hose and the left side is sort of pressured against the metal of the bumper. I'll keep eye on it but it's too big to fit there properly. It's either make a sharp 90 and kink it or some pressure against it going straight down. I sort of ran it 45 degrees to the right to compromise between the two, it could last years like this or fail tomorrow, don't know. I think it will be alright but I may worry about it. If this all works I may get a fan forced cooler and mount it in the back somewhere. But I prob won't if it keeps working lol.

DRBiii reported about 150 degrees driving around tonight at 81 or so ambient temps, random backroads stop and go. It got up to 155 or so when I stopped. I will drive it again tomorrow when it's 104 or whatever in the afternoon and see what it reaches. I hope it's not above 180 or so! Transmission shifting perfectly.

I'm cautiously optimistic, I think the problem is resolved. Stock cooler has a restriction to flow and isn't in best location either.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Sep 07, 2023 1:25 pm

But glad you have seemed to solved your cooling issue; never seen this issue reported before, but there is always a "first" :shock:

, I will certainly add it to my book of knowledge!

If your new Hyden cooler does not provide enough cooling for your liking, you can install a deep sump oil pan that will hold several extra quarts of ATF and that has cooling fins inside & outside the cast aluminum pan to facilitate improved and additional cooling. It also has a nice drain plug along with a tapped hole for a fluid temperature sensor.

It really provides a huge improvement in overall cooling capacity especially if you are towing heavy loads.
I have proved this with my Jeep!

TRANSMISSION PAN - PML 545RFE
https://www.genosgarage.com/product/PML ... ssion-pans

jagster936 · **Joined:** Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:06 pm **Posts:** 210

I thought about that when I had it off and if would have known had cooling issues I would have. That’s a great option and if have more trouble I’ll grab one. Thanks!

That is for the 68RFE will it fit the 545?

Did you tap / drill the “boss cast into pan” for your sensor?

Does this affect your dipstick readings?

jagster936 · **Joined:** Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:06 pm **Posts:** 210

Well, happy to report. I drove it to town 30 miles away, and it slowly crept up and slowing down as it went. Got to around 160s. Then when I stopped after some intentionally hard town traffic driving, had it idling in park it got up to 187 or so. Then when I put it in drive or reverse, interestingly it would drop a few degrees, maybe different flows or whatever. Got it back on highway and pushed it hard up to 80-90mph sustained a while. Temperature actually dropped to the 170s. Playing around out in the country driving normal slower was in 150s-160s. So a large improvement! I wouldn't mind some more cooling but remember this is worst case scenario (only worse would be heavy traffic for hr+), 103F Texas heat AC full blast. Jeep did good! And no noticeable difference in AC cooling since the tranny cooler is on front of condenser. Doesn't cover a whole lot.

If I were to tow in town or mountains in summer I'd want some more cooling, but for what I do this is perfect. A good improvement from here would be the oil pan, and maybe braided steel PTFE lines with fan forced cooler somewhere in back near transfer case. But I think it's ok now, assuming no leaks. Those coolers sure look fragile. I hit the top of it briefly with drill and scraped it some. So far it's holding lol. Will keep eye on

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:35 pm

jagster936 wrote:

I thought about that when I had it off and if would have known had cooling issues I would have. That’s a great option and if have more trouble I’ll grab one. Thanks!

That is for the 68RFE will it fit the 545? All RFE transmissions use the same bolt pattern/pan, 45RFE, 545RFE, & 68RFE.

Did you tap / drill the “boss cast into pan” for your sensor? The pan came already tapped, did not have to do anything but bolt it on.

Does this affect your dipstick readings? No, you still have to fill it up until the level is above full mark. Does take/hold several additional qts. of ATF+4.
Good thing about the deeper oil pan, the dip stick no longer hits the bottom of the oil pan and which caused the dipstick to vibrate out of the tube, solves that problem.

2005 CRD Transmission Removal

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