Does anyone have a old thermostat laying around they are will to donate. I would pay shipping. my housing broke.

The housing broke because it is a cheap casting... when we were designing the Model 001 we looked as modifying the O.E. housing and determined that we could not guarantee the integrity of any welding we would have to do. That is why we went with a clean sheet design and had it professionally machined; we essentially are dealing with a pressure vessel with this thermostat assembly, and therefore housing integrity is critical to overall reliability.

The SargeIndustries modified O.E. stat will have similar issues. He is also trying to get a Hemi thermostat bypass valve to work properly in the O.E. housing bypass cavity... no testing for proper flow is being done for this, and I suspect he will have trouble there as well.

I can send you a used O.E. thermostat if you wish, with a caveat of course.

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2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
Build Date May '05
OME lift kit
Samco hoses
Weeks Stage 1
PMF EGR plug kit
ARP Stud
Cracked CAC repaired with epoxy filler

Broke how?

If its just the little plastic elbow it can be fixed and will get you back on the road until you can get a new thermostat.

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U.S. Army Retired

TDF - What brought on this tirade? He did not mention any other thermostats nor yours.

I have a spare thermostat, I found it after I drilled and tapped mine to fit a normal brass fitting for the small elbow..... LOL post from December
Let me know where I need to ship it to.

Sean

Chill, dude... what "tirade" are you talking about?

I merely gave a comment on how cheap the O.E. casting is, and how someone's attempt to weld on it for a modified unit will probably not go well. Ask ANY B pressure welder.

I never mentioned anything about purchasing my thermostat, so YOU tone it down. I am merely passing along information I discovered during my research. Two other CRD owners have had to come to me for thermostats because the O.E. units not only failed, but the housings were split and leaking at the crimping seams.

Curious how and where the housing broke?

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I will be private message the people who said they had one.

I was not trying to weld on it. I was attempting this way building a thermostat housing.

viewtopic.php?f=169&t=50940

I had the housing sitting on my work bench. I was putting a long beam in my attic to get it out of the way, and get ready for future engine pulling with a come along. I put one side against the opening and walked to the other side. as I walked to the other side it slide down and smacked my work bench and the housing. broke the housing along the front three ports darn there in half. so on to the next.

This is Mark Kapalczynski's modified O.E. thermostat assembly, and it is a proven design. This is the best of the modified O.E. thermostat designs, although it does have some limitations.

You will have no dissimilar metal welding issues because there is no welding in this design; this is good. You are, however, going to have some trouble sourcing a cap with the upper radiator hose barb... they no longer import this part, and it is the main reason I abandoned this design and went with a clean sheet.

If you can find a cap, this is a good design to work with for someone with a shop at home to make one for themselves. It is not an appropriate design for anyone wanting to use their CRD for towing. Due to the lack of caps, (the "water outlet from a 98-01 Kia Sephia 1.8L DOHC" the link describes), and the fact that a core program has to be started to get old O.E. thermostats, (thereby creating logistical problems), it is not an appropriate design for production.

The two gaskets are also a cause for concern, although I have not heard any reports of them leaking as of yet.

I have sourced all the appropriate parts from rock auto and the seal from granger threw work. I am glad it is a good design. I will be doing limited towing with it mostly just a get to the wood and daily.

I have every intention to upgrading to a mod 001. when my wallet is done bleeding from the initial investment into the jeep.

That's too bad. I've never heard of any cases where one had just broken on it's own so I suspected you'd either dropped it or hit it with something.

Kap's design was truly pioneering and set the stage for what was to follow but in addition to the drawbacks already pointed out there are a few additional:
- It requires precision prep (milling) of the donor housing
- It retains the original crimp join between the bottom and top halfs of the housing which has previously and correctly been identified as a weakness and especially so after you've been machining in that area
- It requires a custom bypass seat to be manufactured and pressed into the housing

If you've not already invested into the custom parts for that mod I'd urge you to take a closer look at this design viewtopic.php?f=5&t=83945 Overall it will cost you less and yield a superior result.

To consider Kap's design you clearly have access to a lathe and mill. The rings for Sarge's design are easy to manufacture, the prep of the OE housing is trivial and can be carried out quickly and with simple hand tools - no precision required. With proper equipment the welding is trivial - if you can't do it yourself or don't have access to a buddy that can do it for you I suspect you could find a local shop that will do it for a minimal fee.

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I wouldn't trust dirtmover's ability to judge this situation. He is really irritated I can not deliver a Model 001 at a price he wants to pay, and therefore is supporting anything else as an alternative, even the SargeIndustries modified O.E. thermostat. Here is why you should not look at it...

1) ... it is an unproven modification, while the Kapalczynski mod is already in quite a few CRDs.

2) ... dirtmover's claims that the rings in the SargeIndustries modified unit are easy to design gives the impression the parts that need to be machined for Kap's design are by comparison hard to do. B.S!! They both can easily be done on a lathe. The only difficult part of Kap's design is milling the O.E. housing flat.

3) ... dirtmover's claims that the welding is trivial reveals his somewhat limited knowledge of welding. Successfully welding dissimilar metals, (6061 aluminum vs cast aluminum, in this case), can sometimes be very difficult to achieve, especially in a part that is essentially a pressure vessel. ANY faults in the weld will show up as a leak. If you have to get a professional shop to do it for you, you can expect a minimum charge for this; up here in Canada that means a charge of $50.00 to $70.00. I am also certain that very few shops will guarantee their work in this circumstance... if they are to weld on a pressure vessel, they will want to weld together the exact same metals.

Let's say for the sake of argument that you got the welding done for $50.00. The ONLY way to know that the weld was good is to assemble the modified thermostat and install it on your CRD engine. If it does not leak, great. If it does begin to leak, however, you have just wasted a lot of your time, and you may have to pay for additional welding. The worst case scenario is if this modified unit starts to leak when you are driving somewhere... then your whole day is ruined.

Again, despite the fact that the Kapaczynski modified unit has 2 housing gaskets, I would have more confidence in this than any modified unit that has been welded together.

4) ... the cavity in the O.E. housing was made to work properly with the O.E. thermostat valve that normally sits in it... the size of that cavity is matched with the size of the bypass valve of the O.E. thermostat valve. Using a Hemi thermostat valve in this cavity may not allow for proper coolant flow. This was one of the determining factors when I decided to use the commonly available Hemi thermostat... I realized that the O.E. housing, aside from being a pain to modify, was just too small for proper flow with the larger Hemi thermostat valve.

5) ... dirtmover's claims in the following thread that he can drill and tap an accessory 1/8" NPT hole on the O.E. thermostat housing where the locating pin for the casting mold is, just like the second generation Model 001...

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=83945

Again, this calls into question dirtmover's ability to judge this situation. I measured the outside of this part of the casting, and it is 0.531". There is simply not enough metal there to properly support a 1/8" NPT hole. This would be questionable even if the hole was drilled into 6061 aluminum, but it is simply ridiculous to consider it when drilling into casting metal. Tighten up your aftermarket temperature sending unit to the point where it will not leak, and you will likely break the casting.

Using any straight thread temperature sending units, (usually from Europe), may be possible, but now you are severely limiting your choice of sending units you can use. Gauge manufacturers will not warrant their gauges if you use them with anything but the sending units that they match the gauge with. This likely means "goodbye" to the prospect of using most Autometer, Isspro, Stuart-Warner, or V.D.O. gauges.

Even if the installation of a temperature sending unit is successful, dirtmover also has not considered whether or not the temperature sending unit will penetrate far enough into the main chamber of the O.E. thermostat housing to interfere in the operation of the thermostat valve. This was definitely something I considered when I designed the accessory ports for the Model 001. I took the time to contact several manufacturers of gauges, (and Flex-a-Lite because they make a electric cooling fan control kit that has 1/4" NPT temperature sending unit), and acquire their most popular TSUs so that I can actually design in the proper places in the Model 001 to have accessory TSU ports so they will not interfere with the operation of the thermostat valve.

With all of these issues regarding the SargeIndustries modified O.E. housing, you are way further ahead using Mark Kapalczynski's design.

Best regards,

I almost hate to comment on a tstat chat but... We, my son and I, ran Kaps tstat on my son's 06 CRD fully loaded vehicle/kayak on roof with fully loaded uHaul 5 X 8 trailer behind (estimated trailer weight 2,500lbs+) from Tempe, AZ to Tallahasee, FL (1,900 miles or so with some extreme SW US summer heat) and from Tallahassee, FL to Kearney, NE (1,350 miles with a bit more crammed into the trailer). I'll admit this load did not push the limits of the load/tow rating for the CRD but for what it's worth the temp gauge needle never went above the 1/2 needle width left of dead vertical.

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Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs

I take it no one is allowed to have an opinion or make suggestions unless they agree with your pov?

A lot of us here are exited at the prospect of a viable and realistically priced alternative housing yet here you are trashing it before it even has a chance to prove itself. I wonder why?

I guess that's the problem with allowing vendors to contribute to the forum. They're highly motivated to quash any discussions that they think may result in a competitive product.

I also now realise why you're so supportive of Kap's solution. You know it's no longer a threat! Would you be so supportive if someone got hold of a batch of Sephia outlets and brought it back into production?

If you truly believe in your product you'd let it sell itself with the help customer testimony on this forum rather than attempting to trash anyone who merely suggests there might be other options. I don't know why you can't settle for this as you have a fine product and very supportive customers.

Consider this, you don't see GDE crapping all over the DIY tuning threads and you don't see him getting all hot under the collar when someone suggests his product is expensive. He sits back and lets his product and reputation speak for itself. This is how an excellent vendor behaves.

BTW, using Engineering in your business name could be considered misrepresentation if you don't retain a Professional Engineer on staff. According to Apega you are not.

I wouldn't trust TDF to give impartial advice regarding our cooling system especially when he has a vested interest in guiding you away from any alternatives to his product.

TDF, you're not going to intimidate me or prevent me from discussing other cooling solutions. You don't have a monopoly on this subject. Your attitude only serves to alienate potential customers.

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Well said. I think tdf is fearful of loosing money over competition coming to market

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2005 Crd Silver Limited- arps, rockers, 7v etechno's, egr deleted, v6 airbox, metal cac's. Yeti's stage 2 tune. Euro TC, Ram tcm, pml transmission pan, facet lift pump

dirtmover:

I NEVER said anything about you not being able to express your opinion. But when you state something that I disagree with, I am going to call you on it. I will put up my knowledge and my experts up against your knowledge and experts any day. We can set up a conference call, if you wish, and then post it on YouTube. I will point out for the record that you, dirtmover, have actually contributed nothing concrete in regards to the CRD thermostat problem; I have spent nearly three years at this project.

Green Diesel Engineering HAS no legitimate competition, and neither do I. How do I know this? Keith has been creating engine tunes specifically for European Diesels for years and has a colleague who works for V.M. Motori in North America. When I started my project to create an aftermarket alternative to the the terrible O.E. thermostat, I wanted to imitate that business model as closely as possible. I therefore sought out a cooling system industry engineer, a corrosion engineer, and gauge manufacturers for the second generation re-design. What did Sarge do?

If all you ever are going to do is look for the cheapest alternative, dirtmover, then you REALLY SHOULD NOT BE OWNING A DIESEL VEHICLE. The Model 001 is very reasonably priced, given the quality. The Sarge modified unit will not be as cheap as you think it will be when you factor in ALL of the costs, nor will it be as durable or offer as many features as the Model 001. You assertion that you can install a 1/8" NPT threaded port at the casting mold pin lug is simply laughable, and it hurts what little credibility you have in this subject.

Regarding my previous post...

I am merely pointing out that the SargeIndustries modified O.E. is indeed in the prototype stage.. it is unproven. I support Mark Kapalczynski's design because it is proven, and for no other reason than that. The very fact that I support an alternative design like Kap's puts the lie to your assertion that I am trying to "quash" any discussions about alternatives. Regarding the lack of Sephia water outlets, a smart fabricator should be able to get around this problem and manufacture his own, or find another.

How about trying to come up with some legitimate answers to my legitimate criticisms instead of trying to label me? All you seem to be doing here is mouthing off about how bad a vendor I am, but you seem to have little to say regarding my concerns about the welding, or the clearances in the bypass cavity of the O.E. housing when using the Hemi thermostat valve.

The criticisms I have of it are objective, because I have already investigated those alternatives with above said engineers and gauge manufacturers. Sarge can do as he pleases, but I question how innovative he really is when he steals my idea for using the Hemi thermostat. Talk about predatory!!

There is nothing I can do about it, of course, and I am not angry about it either. It is, however, my right to point out the potential weaknesses in his design. I therefore stand by my previous statements.

Your statement that I can not use Engineering in my business name is baseless, since you do not know who I am teamed with on the Model 001 project. This is just a juvenile attempt to try and cast aspersions on me when all I have done is make legitimate criticisms of the Sarge Design. My opinion does indeed count, regardless if I have skin in the game or not, dirtmover.

"My dad's better than your dad!" Get a life buddy, this is an internet forum. You're showing us exactly why vendors should NOT let themselves get sucked into these sort of discussions.

I don't really have the time or motivation to pick through your quotes, misquotes, misguided accusations, incorrect assumptions, contradictions etc. one by one. You know nothing about me or the majority of other members on the forum regarding our experience, knowledge, skills, education, contacts etc

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526 Posts on the original TDF tstat thread, sounds like a majority of posters here had interest in the project, as well as the finished product.

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2006 LTD Bright Silver loaded with all the needed mods, CCV intact.
Proudly supporting CRD vendors, and their development of quality parts and accessories.
Equipped with HDS thermostat, plenty of heat, faster warm-ups, increased fuel mileage.