LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Wet air filter

I think I've read some other posts about this. It seems that the location of the air intake behind the front grill lets too much water in. What made you decide to check the filter? Did the wet filter affect the engine performance? I guess I'm wondering if this is something we need to worry about, or is it something that happens on most vehicles, and you just happened to notice it.

When I checked my air filter at 8000 miles, it hadn't rained for a while. But you could see the high water mark, where the dirt had left a "bathtub ring" around the bottom of the filter housing. Even with the drain in the bottom, somewhere along the line it had rained hard enough and sucked in water fast enough to where it got upwards of 1/8" to 1/4" deep.

How about sharing what this product is and where we can find it? OR instructions and discussion on unhooking the hose from the front grill?

Zonie wrote:

How about sharing what this product is and where we can find it? OR instructions and discussion on unhooking the hose from the front grill?

I think the "engineered product" he was talking about was the Liberty. :wink:

I believe oldnavy has posted some photos of removing the air box hose and grill to install additional screen to catch bugs and debris, perhaps he can link them here.

I understand ARB is working on a snorkle but probably for the 3.7. Seems like the air box looks pretty much the same on both though. I am not sure that I would want to resort to a snorkle.

Mine (built 3/06) has a plastic baffle that pretty much blocks off the rightmost grille opening. Oldnavy, I couldn't tell from your picture whether yours has it as well, or if that is a change for 2006. I haven't had mine long enough (1 week today) to know if rain is going to be a problem for me. It looks like taking off that short piece of platic hose between the airbox and the grill would cure it in any event, perhaps at the expense of getting a little more hot air through the intake.

Minor or normal rains aren't really that much of the problem I don't think. It's when you have to head into a gully-washer thunderstorm or squall line, where it's raining so hard and heavy that dropping well below the speed limit is a good tactical move.

Funny given your situation, they also suggested adding a constriction guage. :lol:

RFCRD wrote:

Funny given your situation, they also suggested adding a constriction guage. :lol:

Oooohhhh, I wish those guys had put that down in writing! If they had, and I could get a copy, I'd be back down to Lake Norman in a heartbeat. I'd find that little jerk of a so-called service manager and have me some rump roast for lunch!!!! :twisted:

retmil46 wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

Funny given your situation, they also suggested adding a constriction guage. :lol:

Will have to let you know. They talked about adding the one from the Cummins to mine. Of course they already reneged on doing the filter TSB so I wouldn't count on any extras.

Actually just got done cutting the airbox and the 90* elbow is cut and into place. Heading to the hardware store for a SS bolt to hold it in place. All I need is a good rain storm to test if it works.

RFCRD wrote:

retmil46 wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

Funny given your situation, they also suggested adding a constriction guage. :lol:

Any pictures?

Author:	RFCRD [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:47 am ]
Post subject:	Wet air filter
Has anyone checked their air filter element after driving in the rain? I pulled mine last night after driving roughly 30 miles on the expressway in the rain. It was completely saturated with rain water. Has anyone else had this problem?

Author:	SCKJCRD [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:
I think I've read some other posts about this. It seems that the location of the air intake behind the front grill lets too much water in. What made you decide to check the filter? Did the wet filter affect the engine performance? I guess I'm wondering if this is something we need to worry about, or is it something that happens on most vehicles, and you just happened to notice it.

Author:	Goglio704 [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:
SCKJCRD wrote: I think I've read some other posts about this. It seems that the location of the air intake behind the front grill lets too much water in. What made you decide to check the filter? Did the wet filter affect the engine performance? I guess I'm wondering if this is something we need to worry about, or is it something that happens on most vehicles, and you just happened to notice it. Have you ever got the paper filter on a shop vac wet? It becomes very restrictive. If the CRD filter gets restrictive it could be bad for turbo seals.

Author:	retmil46 [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:
When I checked my air filter at 8000 miles, it hadn't rained for a while. But you could see the high water mark, where the dirt had left a "bathtub ring" around the bottom of the filter housing. Even with the drain in the bottom, somewhere along the line it had rained hard enough and sucked in water fast enough to where it got upwards of 1/8" to 1/4" deep. After I saw that, I yanked off the inlet tube to the grille, and it has stayed off since. At the same time, I installed a new OEM air filter, and wiped out the filter housing. I checked it the other week, before dropping it off for EGR replacement, 4000 miles since doing the above. No evidence of any water getting into the housing. Allowing for 1/2 the mileage on this filter, there weren't any huge bugs or large chunks of road crap collecting on it, and significantly less dust/dirt inside the housing.

Author:	RFCRD [ Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:47 am ]
Post subject:
SCKJCRD wrote: I think I've read some other posts about this. It seems that the location of the air intake behind the front grill lets too much water in. What made you decide to check the filter? Did the wet filter affect the engine performance? I guess I'm wondering if this is something we need to worry about, or is it something that happens on most vehicles, and you just happened to notice it. This is very restrictive especially on a diesel and one of the items with the potential to be the cause of my turbo passing oil. To date, DC has been worthless in finding or stopping this defect as they attempt to just pass the whole wet CAC issue off as normal. As for this effecting performance, too hard to tell but it was doing the bucking/shuddering routine the last few miles to the house. It also puts a quantity of water very close to the MAF sensor which can't take moisture. This is the first vehicle I've owned that has ever had a filter get wet in normal driving. In the process of either trying to get DC to fix this vehicle (for a number of defects) or suing them for what the sold me. I do see a fix in opening the airbox to draw more air at lower velocity and from a sheltered area. Paid a lot of money for an engineered product and don't expect to be having these kinds of issues, let alone having to rework it so it functions.

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Author:	RFCRD [ Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:05 am ]
Post subject:
retmil46 wrote: When I checked my air filter at 8000 miles, it hadn't rained for a while. But you could see the high water mark, where the dirt had left a "bathtub ring" around the bottom of the filter housing. Even with the drain in the bottom, somewhere along the line it had rained hard enough and sucked in water fast enough to where it got upwards of 1/8" to 1/4" deep. The inside of mine was completely coated with road salt the first time I noticed. A definate clue something is not right with this arrangement.

Author:	Zonie [ Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:30 am ]
Post subject:
How about sharing what this product is and where we can find it? OR instructions and discussion on unhooking the hose from the front grill?

Author:	Cowcatcher [ Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:01 am ]
Post subject:
Zonie wrote: How about sharing what this product is and where we can find it? OR instructions and discussion on unhooking the hose from the front grill? I think the "engineered product" he was talking about was the Liberty. I believe oldnavy has posted some photos of removing the air box hose and grill to install additional screen to catch bugs and debris, perhaps he can link them here. I understand ARB is working on a snorkle but probably for the 3.7. Seems like the air box looks pretty much the same on both though. I am not sure that I would want to resort to a snorkle.

Author:	RFCRD [ Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:30 am ]
Post subject:
Cowcatcher wrote: Zonie wrote: How about sharing what this product is and where we can find it? OR instructions and discussion on unhooking the hose from the front grill? I think the "engineered product" he was talking about was the Liberty. I believe oldnavy has posted some photos of removing the air box hose and grill to install additional screen to catch bugs and debris, perhaps he can link them here. I understand ARB is working on a snorkle but probably for the 3.7. Seems like the air box looks pretty much the same on both though. I am not sure that I would want to resort to a snorkle. You are correct. The modification I have in mind looks more like the 4" hole fitted with the pipe adapter & rubber boot that is floating around this forum. The difference I have in mind would be cutting-up and using a 4" 90 degree elbow inside the box as a water baffle. Would position on it's side, cut-out the inside radius and lower side, leave the back radius and top intact to catch/cup and decellerate any water that enters the box. Hopefully the combination of the larger opening to reduce intake velocity and this baffle will give the water a chanch to drop-out of the airflow before hitting the filter.

Author:	oldnavy [ Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:03 am ]
Post subject:
Jeep engineers using the same airbox as use on the 3.7 gasser was not a bright idea since the CRD will pull 2 or 3 times the amount of air as the 3.7 gasser will if not more, but try to explain that to someone not diesel savy. I have used door/window screen to help keep the crap from building up so fast in the filter and it has worked quite well so far with my second filter having about the same miles on it with no where the crap in the air box. It has been in a couple of minor rains at highway speeds with no apparent water build up. I am currently running with the screen that covers the intake tube off to see if ther is any real difference in bug and trash build up. I don't like restricting the airbox anymore then necessary. I inspected it two days ago and it looked about the same, but I do need to put more miles on it to be sure.

Author:	retmil46 [ Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:01 am ]
Post subject:
Minor or normal rains aren't really that much of the problem I don't think. It's when you have to head into a gully-washer thunderstorm or squall line, where it's raining so hard and heavy that dropping well below the speed limit is a good tactical move. Thinking back, on my trip to TX last year, I did run into such a weather front going thru western TN and eastern Arkansas. I was heading right into strong blowing wind and heavy rain for most of the morning, so hard at times that traffic on a 70 mph stretch of I-40 was slowed down to 45 mph. Allowing for fuel, that might account for part of the nearly 10 mpg drop in fuel mileage I saw on that tank, even considering the winter blend rockgut I got at a Chevron station outside Nashville. Mileage was so-so on the first part of the tank, I'd reckon around EPA ratings, but after running thru that weather front, when all was said and done I'd only done about 320 to 350 miles by the time I hit 1/8 tank.

Author:	SCKJCRD [ Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:
Mine (built 3/06) has a plastic baffle that pretty much blocks off the rightmost grille opening. Oldnavy, I couldn't tell from your picture whether yours has it as well, or if that is a change for 2006. I haven't had mine long enough (1 week today) to know if rain is going to be a problem for me. It looks like taking off that short piece of platic hose between the airbox and the grill would cure it in any event, perhaps at the expense of getting a little more hot air through the intake.

Author:	oldnavy [ Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:
SCKJCRD wrote: Mine (built 3/06) has a plastic baffle that pretty much blocks off the rightmost grille opening. Oldnavy, I couldn't tell from your picture whether yours has it as well, or if that is a change for 2006. I haven't had mine long enough (1 week today) to know if rain is going to be a problem for me. It looks like taking off that short piece of platic hose between the airbox and the grill would cure it in any event, perhaps at the expense of getting a little more hot air through the intake. Yes mine has the short shield in front to prevent direct entry.

Author:	RFCRD [ Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:
retmil46 wrote: Minor or normal rains aren't really that much of the problem I don't think. It's when you have to head into a gully-washer thunderstorm or squall line, where it's raining so hard and heavy that dropping well below the speed limit is a good tactical move. The other night it was raining steady, wouldn't call it a gully washer but slick enough that I had in 4Xfull-time mode. Traffic was still moving 60-65 but a lot of road mist, similiar to late winter when I had problems with salt spray. Gut feeling that it's the expressway mist that's doing it. I did stop on the way home tonight and bought the plumbing parts to modify the box. The worst thing that can happen is that it doesn't work. From my meeting with the Jeep reps, they already promised to replace the airbox if this modification fails. Funny given your situation, they also suggested adding a constriction guage.

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Author:	RFCRD [ Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:
SCKJCRD wrote: Mine (built 3/06) has a plastic baffle that pretty much blocks off the rightmost grille opening. Oldnavy, I couldn't tell from your picture whether yours has it as well, or if that is a change for 2006. I haven't had mine long enough (1 week today) to know if rain is going to be a problem for me. It looks like taking off that short piece of platic hose between the airbox and the grill would cure it in any event, perhaps at the expense of getting a little more hot air through the intake. Removing the factory hose wouldn't be my first choice is the hot South as it very close to the radiator. At the minimum I would install a boot to cup over the factory intake and isolate your intake air from the rest of the engine compartment. Also the plastic baffle in the grill is common to all Liberty models.

Author:	retmil46 [ Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:33 am ]
Post subject:
RFCRD wrote: Funny given your situation, they also suggested adding a constriction guage. Oooohhhh, I wish those guys had put that down in writing! If they had, and I could get a copy, I'd be back down to Lake Norman in a heartbeat. I'd find that little jerk of a so-called service manager and have me some rump roast for lunch!!!!

Author:	RFCRD [ Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:
retmil46 wrote: RFCRD wrote: Funny given your situation, they also suggested adding a constriction guage. Oooohhhh, I wish those guys had put that down in writing! If they had, and I could get a copy, I'd be back down to Lake Norman in a heartbeat. I'd find that little jerk of a so-called service manager and have me some rump roast for lunch!!!! Will have to let you know. They talked about adding the one from the Cummins to mine. Of course they already reneged on doing the filter TSB so I wouldn't count on any extras. Actually just got done cutting the airbox and the 90* elbow is cut and into place. Heading to the hardware store for a SS bolt to hold it in place. All I need is a good rain storm to test if it works.

Author:	Goglio704 [ Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:
RFCRD wrote: retmil46 wrote: RFCRD wrote: Funny given your situation, they also suggested adding a constriction guage. Oooohhhh, I wish those guys had put that down in writing! If they had, and I could get a copy, I'd be back down to Lake Norman in a heartbeat. I'd find that little jerk of a so-called service manager and have me some rump roast for lunch!!!! Will have to let you know. They talked about adding the one from the Cummins to mine. Of course they already reneged on doing the filter TSB so I wouldn't count on any extras. Actually just got done cutting the airbox and the 90* elbow is cut and into place. Heading to the hardware store for a SS bolt to hold it in place. All I need is a good rain storm to test if it works. Any pictures?

Author:	RFCRD [ Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:
Goglio704 wrote: RFCRD wrote: retmil46 wrote: RFCRD wrote: Funny given your situation, they also suggested adding a constriction guage. Oooohhhh, I wish those guys had put that down in writing! If they had, and I could get a copy, I'd be back down to Lake Norman in a heartbeat. I'd find that little jerk of a so-called service manager and have me some rump roast for lunch!!!! Will have to let you know. They talked about adding the one from the Cummins to mine. Of course they already reneged on doing the filter TSB so I wouldn't count on any extras. Actually just got done cutting the airbox and the 90* elbow is cut and into place. Heading to the hardware store for a SS bolt to hold it in place. All I need is a good rain storm to test if it works. Any pictures? I can arrange some photos. Just haven't ever got an image to sucessfully paste in when I tried. Also want to make sure it actually works first and that I cut enough pipe away to not be too constrictive inside the box. It rained some this morning and I got out in it for @ 30 miles. The filter was dry. Had some water in the bottom of the box and a wet spot where the back radius of the pipe meets the box so I think the concept is working. Interesting too that the top of the baffle pipe was already covered with dirt in that short time. Supposed to rain again overnight and tomorrow, hopefully get a chance to test it again.

Author:	Jeepjeepster [ Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:
The air box in the crd cannot be the same as the 3.7 b/c my intake comes in the bottom of the box which would never let water get to the filter. If i stood there and poured water in the intake with a water hose it wouldnt fill up. There are holes in the bottom of the box that lets the water go out. Sounds to me like all you need to do is make the holes bigger? Dont know why this is getting so complicated for such a small issue. It doesnt take an engineer to figure this out. Maybe it has something to do with the crd pulling so much air it sucks all of the mist up into it?