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Looks like EGR #3 is shot!
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9969		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  europachris [ Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Looks like EGR #3 is shot!
Wife pulled the CRD out of the garage this a.m. to load it up for a trip to Grandma's house. The CEL came on. Oh-oh. :x

I didn't have time to pull the codes for her, but she had mentioned that it's been hesitating off the line lately, which is consistent with the other two times the EGR's have gone out.

I figure it's either the EGR or the tranny, but the tranny has been doing fine for us so far.

So, EGR #1 died at about 5K miles, EGR #2 died at about 12K miles. Hey, at least the third EGR went almost 10K miles!! Whoopeeee, 10K miles on an EGR!!!! :roll:

So, 3 EGR's, multiple flashes, loose motor mount, bad ball joints, bad track bar joint, siezed brake caliper, seats that spot when you look at them sideways, and a ticking time bomb of a transmission. Boy, do I have a big warm fuzzy about DCX quality - NOT! :cry:

Still, we just love the CRD, even with all the problems. It's such a nice vehicle to drive, and 25+ mpg on the highway sure is nice. Thank goodness for the 7/70 powertrain. Looks like we're gonna need it.

Chris
Author:  GreggD [ Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Looks like EGR #3 is shot!
europachris wrote:
Wife pulled the CRD out of the garage this a.m. to load it up for a trip to Grandma's house. The CEL came on. Oh-oh. :x

I didn't have time to pull the codes for her, but she had mentioned that it's been hesitating off the line lately, which is consistent with the other two times the EGR's have gone out.

I figure it's either the EGR or the tranny, but the tranny has been doing fine for us so far.

So, EGR #1 died at about 5K miles, EGR #2 died at about 12K miles. Hey, at least the third EGR went almost 10K miles!! Whoopeeee, 10K miles on an EGR!!!! :roll:

So, 3 EGR's, multiple flashes, loose motor mount, bad ball joints, bad track bar joint, siezed brake caliper, seats that spot when you look at them sideways, and a ticking time bomb of a transmission. Boy, do I have a big warm fuzzy about DCX quality - NOT! :cry:

Still, we just love the CRD, even with all the problems. It's such a nice vehicle to drive, and 25+ mpg on the highway sure is nice. Thank goodness for the 7/70 powertrain. Looks like we're gonna need it.

Chris


Bless you my son. I've gone through 2 EGR's, & 1, soon to be 2, EGR Air Flow Control valves myself. No tranny or other problems so far. What horror stories that have been told about the trannys. My "warm wonderful fuzzy feeling" with DC is the fact that the air flow control valve is in DEEP BACKORDER. :evil: Only "The Shadow" knows when it will be available.
Author:  Ranger1 [ Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:39 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Boy, do I have a big warm fuzzy about DCX quality - NOT! Crying or Very sad


I hear you. Same feeling here - love the CRD, hate what DCX has done to it with shoddy parts quality. My tranny is now bucking violently, but has not set any codes. This time, I'll drive it until it fails so badly that it has to be towed (which isn't too different than the last time the tc blew up). Which from the way its running, won't be long. I've never seen it jerk so violently before at 55-60 mph. I can't believe the transmission can last long with this going on. But according to the dealership, everything is working normally! Up to now, it would stop if I changed speed, but not this time. I have to drop speed by 15 mph and hit the brakes to get it to lessen and even then it won't stop entirely.

It won't see a dealership again until a flatbed drags it's non-moving carcass in!
Author:  RFCRD [ Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looks like EGR #3 is shot!
GreggD wrote:
My "warm wonderful fuzzy feeling" with DC is the fact that the air flow control valve is in DEEP BACKORDER. :evil: Only "The Shadow" knows when it will be available.

Personally, this is my biggest concern with the CRD. The dealers have difficult time getting repair parts when they are required to fix the stuff under warranty. Imagine what will happen when it's on our dime and they aren't required to fix it. I don't see these as items we will pick-up at the local NAPA dealer.
Author:  kjfishman [ Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ranger1 wrote:
Quote:
Boy, do I have a big warm fuzzy about DCX quality - NOT! Crying or Very sad


I hear you. Same feeling here - love the CRD, hate what DCX has done to it with shoddy parts quality. My tranny is now bucking violently, but has not set any codes. This time, I'll drive it until it fails so badly that it has to be towed (which isn't too different than the last time the tc blew up). Which from the way its running, won't be long. I've never seen it jerk so violently before at 55-60 mph. I can't believe the transmission can last long with this going on. But according to the dealership, everything is working normally! Up to now, it would stop if I changed speed, but not this time. I have to drop speed by 15 mph and hit the brakes to get it to lessen and even then it won't stop entirely.

It won't see a dealership again until a flatbed drags it's non-moving carcass in!


All my transmission woes wre solved with the filter TSB. Check the build date on your trans as descibed in the TSB (east to do) print copy and go tell the dealer you have the symptoms your build date is in the window specified. If they say no insist they call STAR and most likely star will tell them to do the TSB. I suspect not performing the TSB is linked to the compaints about torque converter failure.

Back to the original topic of this thread, EGR issues, I am on 2nd EGR issue first time 14k they changed p/n 5166555-AB, now at 24k throwing codes again not sure what parts are on order.

See the message I posted about a group letter to DCX and weigh in your opinion on the idea.
Author:  Ranger1 [ Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've already checked my tranny date - its not in the affected date range. Both filters were also changed a month ago when the tc grenaded and had to be replaced - but the tc shudder is still there and worse than ever, even after the latest tsb flash that allegedly addresses this very issue.

The torque converter issue isn't due to bad transmission filters. The bad filters exacerbate the issue of the tc not being able to handle the CRD engine and tcm software not handling this situation correctly. The shudder and jerking are caused by the torque converter lockup clutch locking/unlocking at high speed, sometimes violently (per the latest tsb on that issue) and this causes excessive heat, wear and acceleration of tc failure. It's not good for the driveline and rear differential either.

Already posted my suggestions on the group letter. My 2nd egr has already thrown codes after 12K miles, and the dealer cleared the codes and sent me on my way. That's why I'm not going back until it fails to where it won't run.
Author:  spoonplugger1 [ Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mine is in the shop for it's 2nd EGR valve in 18,000 and a throttle control motor which they think was the original uncontrolled full throttle problem, but DC wouldn't let them change it till it started buzzing like an electronic alarm buzzer. It was on it's third run away when that happened. Middle lanes busy freeway, 65 mph, uncontrolled full throttle kick in, had to put on clean shorts when I finally got it stopped and than change the right rear tire, I had scrubbed all the tread off one spot getting to the right lane and shoulder to turn it off.
Author:  Ranger1 [ Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
spoonplugger1 wrote:
Mine is in the shop for it's 2nd EGR valve in 18,000 and a throttle control motor which they think was the original uncontrolled full throttle problem, but DC wouldn't let them change it till it started buzzing like an electronic alarm buzzer. It was on it's third run away when that happened. Middle lanes busy freeway, 65 mph, uncontrolled full throttle kick in, had to put on clean shorts when I finally got it stopped and than change the right rear tire, I had scrubbed all the tread off one spot getting to the right lane and shoulder to turn it off.


Another candidate for a NHTSA post...definitely a safety issue.
Author:  redcrd [ Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
I own my crd since april of 05, and had first egr valve replaced at 7k and the most recent last month at 25k, nothing else up to now. i love the truck its fun to drive, i dont want to get rid of it but if this keeps up my crd will be history.
Author:  RTStabler51 [ Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:41 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm on dealer trip #2. First one was for #4 glow plug. 5k later, CEL came on again. Assuming its EGR #1's failure :-(
Author:  KJMedic [ Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
My CEL came on during a trip this week-end to south western Virginia. This will be the 3rd time. Just triped 20k miles. Had the 1st EGR replaced at 7k, 2ed at 14k and now I think it is the same thing again. Funny thing is I get about 2 to 3 more MPG with the light on. But I am getting tired of this. I got the CRD because I drive alot. I got it in Dec. 05 and have 20k on already with 2 more long trips planned for the summer befor the wife and kids go back to school. I did not want to be driving a loaner car. I have put about 1 to 2k miles on the loaner cars. Every time it goes in they keep it for 3 days to 1 week. I may check into a TJ or Ram 2500 tomorrow when they have it to check out.
Author:  boxhead [ Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:16 am ]
Post subject: 
spoonplugger1 wrote:
Mine is in the shop for it's 2nd EGR valve in 18,000 and a throttle control motor which they think was the original uncontrolled full throttle problem, but DC wouldn't let them change it till it started buzzing like an electronic alarm buzzer. It was on it's third run away when that happened. Middle lanes busy freeway, 65 mph, uncontrolled full throttle kick in, had to put on clean shorts when I finally got it stopped and than change the right rear tire, I had scrubbed all the tread off one spot getting to the right lane and shoulder to turn it off.


I know the noise, just went through it this weekend. They're going to replace it and the EGR (this will be my third EGR, second in 5K miles). I have 30K miles total
Author:  onthehunt [ Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
Please correct me if I'm wrong. The people that are having egr issues seem like they are having multiple failures. When someone posts "another egr failure" I can't help but think something else is causing the problem. If you are going through 3 egrs before 30,000 miles I don't believe it is the egr's fault. Something else is causing it. Maybe the fuel or driving habits(not ripping anyone's habits!!) or enviroment or operating temps.. anyone else have ideas??? I can see one egr failure and two is just bad luck, but three!!! No way, it has to be something else causing the egr to fail. I can't complain myself, I'm still on the original with 16,000 miles.
Author:  jeepcrd [ Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
onthehunt wrote:
Please correct me if I'm wrong. The people that are having egr issues seem like they are having multiple failures. When someone posts "another egr failure" I can't help but think something else is causing the problem. If you are going through 3 egrs before 30,000 miles I don't believe it is the egr's fault. Something else is causing it. Maybe the fuel or driving habits(not ripping anyone's habits!!) or enviroment or operating temps.. anyone else have ideas??? I can see one egr failure and two is just bad luck, but three!!! No way, it has to be something else causing the egr to fail. I can't complain myself, I'm still on the original with 16,000 miles.


I too believe it has not been the EGR most of the time. Look at the updates in the link below for a long term CRD test by Popular Mechanics. The codes thrown were for EGR valve, but the real problem was a mechanical piece that was integral to the throttle body - 2 new EGR valves for no reason other than the wrong codes thrown - so how to diagnose???

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog/au ... 20996.html

If you click on the first additional link there, you get this:

MARCH 7, 2006
Posted 121 days and 5 hours ago on March 7, 2006
A Little More Info On Our Jeep Liberty CRD


CRD=Common Rail Diesel

Okay, as promised here's what we found out from DaimlerChrysler: the regional techs replaced the entire throttle body on the Liberty's little Italian-built 2.8-liter four-cylinder turbodiesel because of either 1. the possibility of temperature swing-induced leakage at the clamping areas, or 2. possible stripped teeth on a motor-driven, spring-loaded air management valve integral with the throttle body.

We believe that's a fair assessment because 1. No matter how many diagnostic trouble trees a tech completes, sometimes he just has to start thinking past his nose and let his black magic experience take over, and 2. this is the first application of this powertrain in a U.S.-spec Liberty so there are practically no past service issues to draw on. Plus, the Check Engine light is staying off, which likely means they nailed it.

The EGR valve apparently was never a real issue, but was replaced twice because the engine management system kept spitting out codes that led Manhattan Jeep down that line of diagnostics. Hopefully, they'll know better next time.

True, we're not strapped for a daily driver the way the typical Jeep Liberty CRD owner might have been under the same circumstances. So it's easier for us to say this was a well-handled, professional service experience. But we also didn't get any special treatment. Sometimes fixing modern cars just isn't that straightforward.--Ken Juran
Author:  Ripster [ Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
We only get a few lines from the above reference, you might want to copy and paste the article.
Author:  jeepcrd [ Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ripster wrote:
We only get a few lines from the above reference, you might want to copy and paste the article.


Ok, I added the pertinent information in my initial post above.
Author:  boxhead [ Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
onthehunt wrote:
Please correct me if I'm wrong. The people that are having egr issues seem like they are having multiple failures. When someone posts "another egr failure" I can't help but think something else is causing the problem. If you are going through 3 egrs before 30,000 miles I don't believe it is the egr's fault. Something else is causing it. Maybe the fuel or driving habits(not ripping anyone's habits!!) or enviroment or operating temps.. anyone else have ideas??? I can see one egr failure and two is just bad luck, but three!!! No way, it has to be something else causing the egr to fail. I can't complain myself, I'm still on the original with 16,000 miles.


Fine points all. However, there's no way driving habits are going to cause this if you're driving any where near like a normal person. I currently have the EGR and shutter valve on order. The ETA is AUGUST 24! (ie, 6 weeks) This is crazy. The dealer legitimately has looked all over for the part. And this one is definitely bad, you can hear it. Whether it's bad design, or poor training, DCX has to come to a better resolution on these problems. It's not like I'm going in an asking "please, please give me a new EGR."It threw the EGR code. This time, there's no code, just noise.
Author:  bugnout [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:31 am ]
Post subject: 
CEL light came on 30 miles ago, 21K miles on my 2005 CRD, Just got back from a 1200 mile trip towing a trailer. I did notice a reduction in mpg, but attributed it to questionable fuel. Dealer says its the EGR valve. This is the first issue I've had with my CRD, besides a one time occurance of Loss of Power right after startup (15K miles)

May very well be the EGR valve, but I'm going to take the PM article to the mechanic when I pick it up this afternoon.
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