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 Post subject: Re: Kj 2.5 diesel bad running
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:53 am 
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Please help guys and girls ive got big issues it smokes like hell got a heavy knocking noise and wont rev past 1500 rpm.
So far ive replaced an injector that was stuck open and drainef 11 ltr of oil out of the engine diesel mixed.
And still miss firing.
Ive posted a video on YouTube if you want to see what its doing ,look up jeep kj Cherokee 2.5 diesel on there.
I dont have means to do a compression test on it but have tested all injectors with an ohms test all ok .

Found fault codes too .
570
836
500
1511
70
340
Please help .


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 Post subject: Re: Kj 2.5 diesel bad running
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:32 pm 
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You may be in "Limp" mode? I would be most concerned with the P0340 code. You could also have a wiring harness issue! Be sure and inspect wiring harnesses all over the engine for any signs of wear, frayed wires, or broken wires.... :roll: Also check all grounds to ensure good connections, a bad or loose ground will cause all kinds of weird electrical issues...
Smoking can indicate low boost and / or excess fuel!

Best of luck! :wink:

570 P0570 - Cruise Control ACCEL Signal
836 P0836 - Four Wheel Drive (4WD) Switch Circuit
500 P0500 - Vehicle Speed Sensor
1511 P1511-BATTERY SENSE LINE 1 VOLTAGE TOO LOW
70 P0070 - Ambient Air Temperature Sensor Circuit
340
P0340 - Camshaft Position Sensor A Circuit (Bank 1 or single sensor)
- Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Missing Signal Plausibility
- Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Missing Signal
- Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit

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 Post subject: Re: Kj 2.5 diesel bad running
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:31 pm 
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Thank you so much i will look in to that i was starting to think there was something wrong with the engine.


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 Post subject: Re: Kj 2.5 diesel bad running
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:10 pm 
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One other question of in limp mode would the engine light be on ? Because it stays off.


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 Post subject: Re: Kj 2.5 diesel bad running
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:37 pm 
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brianfinn wrote:
One other question of in limp mode would the engine light be on ? Because it stays off.

I believe that if something triggered you going into limp mode, it would set a check engine light (DTC)!

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 Post subject: Re: Kj 2.5 diesel bad running
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:46 am 
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Location: White River in the Bush South Africa
What year is your Cherokee and is it manual transmission....here in SA only the 2.8 Auto came out with Cruise Control.
Where are you located?
Did you get the error codes using the "key" method or using a code reader?

Smoke needs checking of the CAC hoses and the hose from the air filter to the turbo for any cracks and splits.
Have you removed and cleaned the MAP sensor on top of the intake manifold. Also check the turbo for any play!

I would definitely replace the cam sensor and while you are at it the crank sensor....only use OEM replacements.

Have you downloaded the Service Manuals for your year here here...includes the Wiring Diagrams....the most important manual though is the section "2.5_2.8 Export Diesel"" as it covers our Export 2.5/2.8 diesels which have some differences to the USA models.

http://www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ

I have some other relevant manuals for our motors on my PC....if you PM me your e-mail address I can mail them to you...they are not very large in size!

If the cam and crank sensors do not solve the knocking then I am afraid it sounds like a timing issue or a broken rocker!

I will have a closer look at my manuals and get back to you later. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Kj 2.5 diesel bad running
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:52 am 
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Ok its a 2004 manual and im from Shropshire England.
I got the codes from the key method.
What is the cac hose ?
I enjoy working on cars so intend to dix this myself with your help .
Not removed map sensor but will do.
And will check the turbo .
Why replace the crank sensor too?
Yes i did download it very useful.
I have a vid on YouTube of it running if you want to take a look ?its under jeep kj Cherokee 2.5 diesel.


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 Post subject: Re: Kj 2.5 diesel bad running
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:14 pm 
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Location: White River in the Bush South Africa
brianfinn wrote:
Ok its a 2004 manual and im from Shropshire England.
I got the codes from the key method.
What is the cac hose ?
I enjoy working on cars so intend to dix this myself with your help .
Not removed map sensor but will do.
And will check the turbo .
Why replace the crank sensor too?
Yes i did download it very useful.
I have a vid on YouTube of it running if you want to take a look ?its under jeep kj Cherokee 2.5 diesel.


OK around about 2004 the Export models changed to the 2.8 L motor with a variable vane turbo...in either manual or auto mode... as apposed to the 2.5 L which only came out as a manual with the fixed vane turbo. The Export 2.8 L package is very similar to the USA models. So what do you have....the 2.5 fixed vane or the 2.8 variable vane?

The CAC hoses are the thick black rubber hoses running from the turbo to the Intercooler up front and then from the Intercooler to the Inlet manifold. These two hoses are prone to split at which time you get black smoke and severe lack of power....ask me how I know this! So you need to inspect them very closely and check the rubber hose connecting the output of the air filter to the turbo for cracks.

The codes you pulled via the "key" method do not get erased...you need a Dealer to do this or maybe a garage that can do this. The early CRDs up to about 2004 I believe uses a PCI bus for its communication so it is difficult to find a code reader that can handle to read and delete these codes other than the Dealers. Even here in SA the Bosch Shop could not read the codes out of our Bosch ECMs.

So the first codes that you pulled out are probably ancient and no longer of any value...I would concentrate on the last two codes namely the P0070 and P0340.

You should definitely replace the Cam sensor as that is what is being called out and is a fairly common problem...the crank sensor can wait.

The KJ Service Manuals that you downloaded at Colorado.com does not cover the 2004 model so use the 2003 model instead...2005 had a lot of changes made. PM me your e-mail address and I will send you two more short Export manuals...the one manual specifically deals with the CEL codes you posted and what to do about them...although most of their fixes require the use of the Dealers special Reader.

Have you tested that all the warning lamps on your cluster are working? Press and hold in the Odometer Trip Reset button while turning ignition ON and all the gauges will cycle and all the lamps are turned on...I am a bit surprised that your CEL lamp does not come on.

The correct place to post these problems is the forum below namely the "Liberty CRD Love That Torque". Read the "NOOB GUIDE" .which points out a lot of locations...USA motor...and deals with the most common problems.
This shows where the MAP sensor is located on top of the intake manifold...USA models have this held in with one large bolt while early Export models have two smaller bolts. Give this a careful clean...spray with Brake Cleaner. A dirty MAP sensor can cause bad performance, black smoke and bad fuel mileage.
You will see in this NOOB GUIDE that "Billwill" is mentioned...that used to be my Logon ID but got frozen due to lack of activity! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Kj 2.5 diesel bad running
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:34 pm 
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It is a 2.5 manual ive done the display test all is working only the abs light stays on so i suspect that is the speedo sensor but no engine light it comes on with the ignition and goes out when it fires up.


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 Post subject: Re: Kj 2.5 diesel bad running
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:51 am 
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Location: White River in the Bush South Africa
brianfinn wrote:
It is a 2.5 manual ive done the display test all is working only the abs light stays on so i suspect that is the speedo sensor but no engine light it comes on with the ignition and goes out when it fires up.


If your speedometer is working OK then the sensor on the rear diff is probably OK...the ABS problem is probably with one of the sensors on the wheel hubs themselves or the connector/cabling going to the sensors.

I am short of data at the moment...will look at your youtube posting tomorrow at a WIFI site! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Kj 2.5 diesel bad running
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:35 am 
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Thats the least of my worrys at the moment its so bad i can't drive it .the vid is only about 30 seconds long so see what you think thanks for your help so far.


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 Post subject: Re: Kj 2.5 diesel bad running
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:00 am 
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That's not limp-mode and that smoke is unburned fuel.
One cylinder is not firing at all, and the next in the firing order is knocking hard trying to correct the RPM drop.
Pull the electrical connector from one injector at a time.
You should find one where the engine still starts up but the smoke is less.
Several things it could be, but at least you will find which cylinder to concentrate on.
Once you find that, pull and inspect that injector.
If no problem there, it's either rockers and / or valves.
A compression test will show if the valves are good.

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 Post subject: Re: Kj 2.5 diesel bad running
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:04 am 
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Ok will do that


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 Post subject: Re: Kj 2.5 diesel bad running
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:34 am 
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This is the link to his YouTube video:
Jeep kj Cherokee 2.5 diesel

Big engine issues can anyone help
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv5HzMnI-HA

Sounds like:
A. Injector issue
B. Rocker arm
C. ?

Definitely sounds like it is skipping on one cylinder when it is revved up. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Kj 2.5 diesel bad running
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:09 pm 
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My mate lent me his compression tester but its not compatible with the jeep so ive asked an engineer i know to make one out of an old injector so will do compresson test later in the week but ive cleaned the map sensor and cam sensor will check turbo tomorrow looks like the zj will be put on hold for a few weeks while i try to fix this one .
Thanks for your help peeps.


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 Post subject: Re: Kj 2.5 diesel bad running
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:11 pm 
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By the way the injectors are working im thinking valves or rockers


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 Post subject: Re: Kj 2.5 diesel bad running
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:32 pm 
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You may be right, mate, but for now just test and document data.
Sometimes trying to think ahead will cause you to overlook important things.
(What got me thinking that direction was the "sneeze" back through the intake when the engine died)
When you test the compression, just test cranking. Don't let it start. (Remove ALL the electrical connectors from ALL the injectors.)
Cranking compression pressure should be between 175psig and 245psig. (depending on engine wear, altitude, temperature, humidity, etc)
They should be reasonably even. If there's one that's different by 25% or more, that's your target.
Have you tried unplugging injectors as a cylinder drop test?

_________________
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Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
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Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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 Post subject: Re: Kj 2.5 diesel bad running
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:45 am 
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Not done drop test will do that today


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 Post subject: Re: Kj 2.5 diesel bad running
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:42 pm 
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Wish me luck im taking the plung im going to remove the cam housing fingers crossed its just a rocker.


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 Post subject: Re: Kj 2.5 diesel bad running
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:20 am 
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brianfinn wrote:
Wish me luck im taking the plung im going to remove the cam housing fingers crossed its just a rocker.


Yeah I do wish you luck!

I know that here in SA when the 2004 KJ CRD upgraded 2.8 L motor was announced with more power, variable vane turbo and now with the option to have an automatic CRD....they also announced that the rockers were now designed to break in case of any interference so as to cause less damage!

In other words the 2.5 L motor may not have the advantage of breakable rockers so you may find more damage unfortunately!

I hope I am wrong...please send us some pictures of any damage found....not that I can do anything about it on my 2.5 CRD! :? :?

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