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 Post subject: What would you recommend when picking up an XJ?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:39 am 
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OK so I've thought about getting an XJ to turn into a strictly trail rig. You can pick up a newer XJ for pretty cheap now (less than $8k). Does it really matter what kind of miles it has on it if it is going to be used on the trail only? Obiously lower miles USUALLY = less wear & tear but not always. Do you get the cheapest one you can find (knowing that you will be ripping out that D30 front, etc) or find something that you can still drive everyday, reliably, just in case the KJ is in for maintaince? I've always loved the XJ, and I've dreamed about owning a yellow one, but they stopped making the Cherokee 4 years before I got my Liberty.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:38 am 
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i'd go for the cheapest one you can find. A buddy of mine bought a 2000 XJ sport with a 231 case and 4.0, d30 front with 8.25 rear... Its in decent shape but has 177,000 miles...he got it last summer...

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:05 am 
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Buy what you can afford and work from there.Stay within your budget and do mods that compliment each other.

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Last edited by SKIDOG on Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:51 am 
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I would go for a 94-96 w/ the best combo of low mileage and best price you can find. They often are much cheaper than the 97-up and there are Many of them out there for sale. No way would I buy one in the $8k range, you can get a real nice, loaded, earlier one for half that and have more money for mods. The 4.0L is known to run well up to 300K miles, so if you get one in the 150k or under range you should be good for a while.

Why rip out the D30? Polish that turdy up w/ some decent axles and a locker and it will run 33-35's fine if you don't beat the crap outa it. Try to find w/ a 8.25 rear and upgrade to 29 spline axles and a posi or locker.

I would build it as a Trail/DD rig for the reason you mentioned, never know when you will need to hit the hwy. with it. Lift it, Skid it, Locker/gear it, slider bar it, diff armor it, etc. and go wheel it. The mods will never stop, so just take you time building it.

BTW, if you want a pretty good resource for XJ info, check out NAXJA. There is lots of info to pick through on their forum.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:14 pm 
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I know that the 4.0 I6 is pretty much bulletproof. However I thought that the 8.25" was stock on the XJ....did some of them have D35s or D44s? What about the tranny? Some of the earlier XJ came with a 3speed auto and some with a 4 speed. Is there any other benefit to the 3speed vs 4speed other than having an overdrive gear? Is one more reliable than the other? I also hear that some pre 96' models had leaf springs in the front....I guess that wouldn't do much for your articulation.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:44 pm 
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Diffs available:
Dana 35 non c-clip - 27 spline, 1.18" diameter shafts, 7.58" ring gear, 2.62" axle tube - used 84-89
Dana 35 c-clip - 27 spline, 1.18" diameter shafts, 7.58" ring gear, 2.62" axle tube - used 90-01
Chrysler 8.25 - 27 spline, 1.17" diameter shafts, 8.25" ring gear, 3" axle tube - used 91-96
Chrysler 8.25 - 29 spline, 1.21" diameter shafts, 8.25" ring gear, 3" axle tube - used 97-01
Dana 44 non c-clip - 30 spline, 1.31" diameter shafts, 8.5" ring gear, 2.75" axle tube - used 87-89 on some(not all) XJ's equipped with towing package

Auto trans available:
Torqueflight 904 - 3 speed automatic - used 84-86 with 2.8L V6 and 2.5L I4 engines
30RH - 3 speed automatic - used with 2.5L I4 engine 94?-00
AW4 - 4 speed automatic, electronically controlled - manufactured by Aisin - used from 87-01

The AW4 IS a great trans and will usually last as long as the engine if taken care of.

I believe the above is correct.

The Early Full size Cherokees had leafs in front, Pre-84. All later ones had coils front and leafs rear unless modified.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:09 pm 
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In my recent research on them, i've noticed one rather important thing to watch out for on the newer ones. If you're going with the newer body style, I wouldn't go any newer than a 1999 model. Reason being is in 2000 Chrysler switched the heads on them, and went to a lower quality head. These newer ones were real prone to cracking, especially if it's been overheated even the slightest bit. And i'm sure you know that when your head cracks, it'll dump coolant into your oil and thats a big no no.

1999 should be the last year of the good ones. But i've heard some mixed reports on that. the true way to verify is to look at the casting number, located on the drivers side of the engine block, right inbetween the tip of the valve cover gasket and the engine block, should be loacted around the #3 and #4 cylinder area. If it reads "0630" you're in good shape. If it reads "0331", i'd stay away from it.

As JJ mentioned, check out NAXJA. Thats a GREAT place for all your XJ needs.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:47 pm 
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Does it really matter if I find one with the Up-Country suspension if I plan on lifting it 4"-5" anyways? Did they reinforce the unibody for the Up-Country suspension?

As for going over to NAXJA, I'd rather ask questions here. I want to keep it in the family :wink: .

Thanks for the info about the trans JJ. I'll make sure it has the 4speed...but then again the AW4 would only be available with the I6, right?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:37 pm 
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Yes on the AW4 and don't worry about what suspension it has stock as you will be ripping that out anyway.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:25 pm 
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I recommend a 95 or older XJ, because that has the old style tail housing which means you can lift 3-4.5" before needing an SYE. 96 has the newer style, but you can lift 3" without SYE. 97+ has a newer newer tailshaft and some say that you can't put a BB in without needing an SYE!! Go for the 8.25 over the useless 35. 27 splines are fine, 29splines are better but only found in 97+. Also, stay away from ~00 and up because they put in LP D30 front.

Watch for rust. Get the AW4 auto, way more reliable than any standard they put in there. don't think about anytihng other than 4.0L. If you're gonna SYE, say away from 242 case, because there is only one SYE kit for it and it's more expensive. Plus, you won't need full-time 4 on a trail rig.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:41 am 
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If this is a trail rig, find you a 97 or 98 model SE. The don't have all the power options like cruise, power windors, etc., but you still get the newer body style with all the upgrades. Like mentioned with the 99-01, they seem to have a problem with the heads. Look for one with the 8.25 rear end, as those are easier to sell if you are upgrading axles, plus the D35 had ABS, and you don't want that for a trail rig. The 97-99 XJ's (as well as the later production 96's) also had the upgraded D30 front axles with the 297 joints instead of the 260 joints, and still a high pinion, so those are easier to sell. Weak axles don't sell, so if they are even slightly stronger at a reasonable price, people will buy to upgrade. 96 is a tricky year, as they were a split year in production. They had the older body style, but throughout the production year, they began to get the upgrades of the 97, like the 297 joint HPD30 and the 29 spline 8.25. The problems with the 96 is you just don't know what you have until you tear it apart, and by then you have already purchased it and found out if you got screwed or not.

96+ XJ's with the 231 TCase are cheaper to do the SYE setup as they got the new sealed 231. This also did make them more prone to vibes, especially with the 8.25 axles, due to the steeper driveline angles from shorter driveshafts. Don't listen to the misconception about SYE's only needed if you have vibes. This is a big bunch of passed around misinformation that one year is better than another whe it comes to vibes. It doesn't matter if you have an 84 or an 01 XJ, whether or not you get vibes, no matter how much lift you have, if you lift it, you need a SYE...PERIOD. Can you get by without one, sure, but your are putting a lot of stress on your driveline whether or not you feel the vibes. Vibes have nothing to do with the stress on your tcase. People think if they don't have vibes, they don't have problems, or if they do have vibes, they try to get rid of them with cheap no good absolutely fix nothing but give a false sense of security that everything with the driveline is hunkydory garbage fixes like TCase drops, shims without SYE's, longer yokes, extended stock driveshafts, etc.

This is going to get long, so grab some popcorn. I have posted this many times on many other forums to help educate those misinformed to help show that saving money with cheap fixes is more expensive in the end. This a cut and post from one of my other forum posts on why you need a SYE/CV shaft:

"I personally do not recommend any of the cheap alternative fixes for driveline vibes, such as TCase drops, shims without SYE, YJ yokes, etc. Those items are bandaides to remove vibes, but they do not address the real issue at hand. Vibes are a physical indication of UJoint binding. UJoints are cheap to fix. Vibes are often mentioned in the forums as a problem because they are annoying. The real problem is the stress put on the output shaft and bearing of the TCase when you lift and increase the operating angles of the driveline. The more you lift, the greater the operating angles, the greater the stress. Think of it this way, if you take a wood dowel rod, place it over your leg, and roll it back and forth over your leg, this is similar to the output shaft of the TCase at stock height. Your leg is the output bearing. Now, take that dowel rod, leave the left side at the same pressure while pushing down with the right hand to cause a bow in the rod, and roll it back and forth over your leg. The left side symbolizes the shaft in a fixed position inside the TCase, while the right side is pulled downward by the increased operating angles of the driveline. The greater the angle, the more downward pressure, the sooner the rod (shaft) will snap at your leg (output bearing). The purpose of a SYE/CV shaft is to shorten the output shaft and distribute the forces of the rotating shaft through two UJoints instead of one. If you take the dowel rod again, but shorten the right side by 2/3, it is much more difficult to bend it over your knee when applying the same pressure that snapped the longer rod. You use shims at the axle end to remove the stress on the axle end UJoint, and the remaining stress is distributed among the two joints at the TCase end. My father once got onto me as a small child when I was flipping the switch to the power locks constantly. He told me that items are designed with a certain lifespan. If the lock switch was designed to last for 1,000 switches before needing replaced, and I flipped the switch 100 times in 2 minutes, I decreased the expected life by 10%. Ever since I try to think of everything this way. This isn't an exact science, but I think the point can be made here. Just making up some numbers for example, if the stock driveline was setup to last 250,000 miles before the TCase needs an overhaul, and you lift 2" and leave the stock setup and drive 25,000 miles like this, you decreased the life of your TCase 50,000 miles. Like those cigarrette commercials, with every cigarrette, you decrease your life by 7-10 minutes. It's not a perfect equation, but it should make sense. Vibes are not the culprit, they are a reminder that something bigger is going on in your driveline. Eliminating vibes is a good thing, but don't do it just for the vibes.
2-3" of lift isn't going to kill your TCase overnight, especially when compared to 6" on a stock driveline, but if you get rid of the vibes using those cheap alternatives, just keep in mind your TCase may not last as long as stock. The brand of lift isn't going to matter, the year of your XJ doesn't matter, the amount of vibes doesn't matter, if you lift it without a SYE/CV shaft, life is shortened. It amazes me that the XJ was designed with a SYE/CV shaft in the front of the TCase, but was not done to the rear. It doesn't make sense that is wasn't done right straight from the factory, but this can be corrected."

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:41 am 
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If you jeep is a trail rig, and it gets wheeled, you are already going to stress the components, so might as well build it right the first time. This is what happens when you wheel with 4" of lift without a SYE/CV shaft and that TCase desides it's had enough:

http://myweb.cableone.net/dngrfld/broken.jpg

I have built a number of jeeps, mostly XJ's, and there is the cheap way to do it, and the right way to do it. Sometimes the cheap way can still be the right way, but usually not. If you need any help during your project, please feel free to pick my brain.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:32 am 
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JJsKJ wrote:
Diffs available:
Dana 35 non c-clip - 27 spline, 1.18" diameter shafts, 7.58" ring gear, 2.62" axle tube - used 84-89
Dana 35 c-clip - 27 spline, 1.18" diameter shafts, 7.58" ring gear, 2.62" axle tube - used 90-01
Chrysler 8.25 - 27 spline, 1.17" diameter shafts, 8.25" ring gear, 3" axle tube - used 91-96
Chrysler 8.25 - 29 spline, 1.21" diameter shafts, 8.25" ring gear, 3" axle tube - used 97-01
Dana 44 non c-clip - 30 spline, 1.31" diameter shafts, 8.5" ring gear, 2.75" axle tube - used 87-89 on some(not all) XJ's equipped with towing package

Auto trans available:
Torqueflight 904 - 3 speed automatic - used 84-86 with 2.8L V6 and 2.5L I4 engines
30RH - 3 speed automatic - used with 2.5L I4 engine 94?-00
AW4 - 4 speed automatic, electronically controlled - manufactured by Aisin - used from 87-01

The AW4 IS a great trans and will usually last as long as the engine if taken care of.

I believe the above is correct.


C-clip Dana 35 was 89-01, Dana 44 rear was an option with or without the towing package (usually only found on 87's). AW4 made by Aisin/Warner which was a joint Aisin of Japan and Warner Gear of USA.

Front axle was a Dana 30, some 84-86 used CV axle shafts, 84-99 were high pinion, 00-01 are low pinion, 84-91 could be either a disconnect or non disconnect axle, all 92-up are non disconnect. 89-94 with ABS had bigger U joint axle shafts like all 95-up.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:22 am 
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Great info RL.

THanks for the clarification Mike. I only copied and pasted what I had found elsewhere. I figured it might not be 100% perfect but close. :wink:

I love that we now have a place here for this type of info for our non-KJ owners or those looking to move into or add another Jeep.

Thanks!

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 Post subject: XJ information
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:34 am 
I have a 99 XJ classic with long arm suspension and a few other things.

If you are truelly looking for a an XJ and want to make it a devoted trail rig. Make sure you find on with the I6,AW4 tranni and 242 T case. THe I6 has the mostpower/torque you will find and is vertuelly bullet proof. However when it comes to axles. The newer ones had the 8.25 rear with optional LSD, stay away from the D35 rear end, its worthless. Now one bit of advise, if you go cheep and find one with a blown rear end or a open D35, rip it out and for about 600$ if ou do your homework, you can get an explorer 8.8. The older models were available with D44 but you will get the 231 T case which isnt all that pleasent on the trail.

I have alot more that I can offer so if you need some advise pointers drop me a line

PS. Get onto NAXJA.com youll find everything you need to know there as well.

svt3721@yahoo.com


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:22 am 
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You mention that you might be willing to spend 8K on an XJ..

I got a `90 for 700 bucks with virtually NO RUST..
everything works, but it does need some TLC.
(not for sale.!)
came with 3" lift, almost new 31 x 10.50 AT's, rails, roof rack, and power everything..

imagine the trail rig you could build with $7300 left over for upgrades. :)


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pic was taken the day I got it home..

I found mine on ebay,,,,, just be patient and you can find what you are looking for..
.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:37 am 
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deserthorizons wrote:
.
.
I got a `90 for 700 bucks with virtually NO RUST..
everything works, but it does need some TLC.
(not for sale.!)
came with 3" lift, almost new 31 x 10.50 AT's, rails, roof rack, and power everything..


Image
pic was taken the day I got it home..

I found mine on ebay,,,,, just be patient and you can find what you are looking for..
.
.


Sure it is, as soon as you are done w/ it in MOAB, you can sell it to my son for around $1200 Ok? (that is about what he will have when the time comes to buy) :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:57 am 
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Ford 8.8 information...

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/Axles.html

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/axleguide.html


http://www.dpgoffroad.com/tech/8.8.htm

http://www.stu-offroad.com/axle/8.8axle/8.8axle-1.htm


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 Post subject: Re: XJ information
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:06 pm 
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99xjrunner wrote:
Make sure you find on with the I6,AW4 tranni and 242 T case. The older models were available with D44 but you will get the 231 T case which isnt all that pleasent on the trail.


The only difference between the 242 and 231 is the Full-time position that allows use on the street (rain) through a open diff in the t-case.

The main advantage of the 231 are heavy duty upgrades are available aftermarket like HD 32 spline rear output, wide chain/gear kit, and decent 4:1 low range kit which you can't get for the 242 (unless you are building a franken case like mine)


Mike R

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:32 pm 
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What is wrong w/ a 231 on the trail?

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