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| need justification http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=26047 |
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| Author: | elephantrider [ Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | need justification |
can some one take a look at this jeep and see if its actually worth the 60k buy it now price thats on it ? there is a long list of parts / upgrades, so just curious if it would add up to the buy it now price. awesome jeep, none the less... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/06-TJ-Un ... 0172313988 
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| Author: | chefdab [ Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
It's a pretty nice Jeep but who really thinks they will get back all the money they spend on mods when they sell it? I wouldn't give him more than $35k for that rig. An LJ would probably sell for just under $20k if it were stock. Do you think all those mods are worth $40 more? |
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| Author: | elephantrider [ Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:36 pm ] |
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i didnt think so, but what are all those parts worth along with the labor it took to fab and install.. ? certainly not 40k, but maybe closer to 15k-20k on top of the 20k for the jeep itself ? |
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| Author: | ryno [ Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
There's a picture of a Jeep that looks just like that in the Jeep group on Facebook. Some people are trying to convince me that the guy has spent over $100,000 customly modifying it... That's a load of bull. |
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| Author: | Guest [ Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:06 am ] |
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$100k is pretty easy to believe if they paid someone else to build it, but a $100k pricetag doesn't justify a $60k used selling price. |
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| Author: | chefdab [ Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
You also have to ask yourself if you need all that right now. You could spend less by buying a stock LJ or even a brand new JK unlimited and building it into what YOU want. |
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| Author: | SethX9 [ Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:14 pm ] |
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I'll tell ya what...take apart a $25,000 truck, do all the engineering research and legwork to add a one-off suspension and roll cage, aftermarket driveline and engine accessories, wheels, tires, interior...and make it all work together. I don't know how much anyone else on this board gets paid for the work they do but $35k sounds cheap for all that extra gear and six months of work. To put it in perspective, AEV wants $11k for an off-the-shelf conversion that doesn't look half as impressive as what the eBay guy built. I spent a year working for a guy who raced SCORE and Best In The Desert; I know how much goes into a custom build of that scope. Would I pay $60k for someone else's project? Probably not. But I don't think the guy's asking too much |
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| Author: | jason thompson [ Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:47 pm ] |
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NO it is not worth $60K reason why it is NOT CUSTOM every thing on it is bolt on ,besides the axles, and could be done to any TJ if you break it down to simple terms he has ~10" of lift using coil overs PSC fenders all around Atlas T-case Clayton long arms 40" Iroks with internal bead locks ,spending this kind of cash I would just get the real thing locked and 4.88's ,wich with tires that tall I would go with 5.13's and get the most out of the Atlas Now the 60's add some value but not that much as you can buy them and build them for ~$3K including gears and lockers it will take some junk yard searching but it could be done Guy in our club built a buggy from scrach using mostly Toyota parts and such and is only asking ~$7k now this is a real deal full tube rock buggy and not street leagal and could probably easily follow that thing any where and then some also you could use the other $53K to buy one hell-of-a tow rig or even better drop $20K on a used 3/4 ton P/U and spend the 23K on a TJ with some mods when you want a street leagal ride IMO way to much money |
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| Author: | SethX9 [ Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:21 pm ] |
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"it will take some junk yard searching but it could be done" And there's exactly what I'm talking about. Can a person build their own version of that $60k rig without pulling $60k outta their wallet? Absolutely! But why don't people figure into the cost of things their own time? Now if you're making $12-15/hr then 500 hours of your time is only worth $6-7.5k. If you earn two or three times that then the cost of your time scrounging around junk yards and piecing together your findings scales up the same. Now that 500 hours is worth upwards of $20k and I'm sayin' a quality welder's time or a quality mechanic's time is worth slightly north of $15/hr. As to your friend who's selling a "real deal..rock buggy" for $7k: apples and oranges and hoopdy doo. I can buy a mule for $7-800 and it'll go even more places off-road. So by your (ahem) logic that means the one-year-old very highly modified Unlimited with a factory warranty is now only worth $800. Silly. He might not get it on eBay but I don't think he'll have much trouble finding someone to give him close to asking for that rig. |
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| Author: | Guest [ Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:19 am ] |
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SethX9 wrote: So by your (ahem) logic that means the one-year-old very highly modified Unlimited with a factory warranty is now only worth $800. Silly.
uh...Factory warranty on what? I guarantee you the corrosion warranty is gone, the drivetrain warranty is gone...and good luck if you grenade the engine on it and getting IT warrantied. That thing has about as much warranty on it as my 30 year old motorcycle does. Also...yeah, your time is valuable. Does this mean I should charge my girlfriend every time I hang out with her because I could, theoretically, be working? does it mean that I should work for free since I grace the presence of others for no charge? Money is money, and I'd rather spend 100 hours building a vehicle than work those hundred hours and pay someone else that money to build it for me. |
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| Author: | jason thompson [ Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:32 am ] |
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SethX9 wrote: "it will take some junk yard searching but it could be done"
And there's exactly what I'm talking about. Can a person build their own version of that $60k rig without pulling $60k outta their wallet? Absolutely! But why don't people figure into the cost of things their own time? Now if you're making $12-15/hr then 500 hours of your time is only worth $6-7.5k. If you earn two or three times that then the cost of your time scrounging around junk yards and piecing together your findings scales up the same. Now that 500 hours is worth upwards of $20k and I'm sayin' a quality welder's time or a quality mechanic's time is worth slightly north of $15/hr. As to your friend who's selling a "real deal..rock buggy" for $7k: apples and oranges and hoopdy doo. I can buy a mule for $7-800 and it'll go even more places off-road. So by your (ahem) logic that means the one-year-old very highly modified Unlimited with a factory warranty is now only worth $800. Silly. He might not get it on eBay but I don't think he'll have much trouble finding someone to give him close to asking for that rig. woha there bud first and for most 500 hours is way to many hours to build a rig like that remember that 95% of the stuff on that rig is bolt on or can be bought as a bolt on the only thing even close to custom is the 60's and like I said I could find them It may take at best including drive time ,pull, and break down 10-15 hours bolt on a long arm lift ,if it takes you more then 10 hours you did something wrong build the axles front and rear 20 hours ,in my gerage, nothing special but welding the coil over mounts and suspension mounts in the right places but you can simply moc that fron the center of the OE axles even if I spent 100 hours or 2 working weeks + some for the rest I would still be at less then 150 hours 500 hours please Now all this is in my garage a machanic who can weld will charge ~$60 an hour for labor do the math that is only $9K and I find that a strech as I wached a CJ get a conversion to a 44/60 coilover combo and that took less than 50 hours ,along with motor/trans/T-case from a TJ (local shop less than a mile from home) also I doubt a "mule" could follow a toy rock buggie ,I guess you have never seen one in action 4 banger super low gears next to nothing in weight on 40" tires you can follow that in a mule that is one hell of a mule and why even buy a Jeep? and my logic goes much deeper see to me that is all shelf parts that I could buy and install my self for less then $35K I say $35k because that is $60K less $25k for a '06 TJ unlimited now if it were really custom built or something closer to that then maybe 40-50K but most people dont really see the true picture ,like your self They want to say that they spent $XXX to have this done that is fine ,it is done and I am buying it #1 used and #2 was it done right you buy it as is ,if it is an effed up job that is your problem I have seen rigs with custom suspension's ,tri link rears and 4 link fronts coil overs ,LT1 V8 conversion with a 700 trans and 44" swampers with the atlas just like that one sell for ~40-50K now that is custom not shelf parts and it went for less than $60 but he bought a totaled TJ and BUILT it him self in his shop in his spare time over the corse of a year but I doubt he spent 500 hours and lastly you stated "factory warranty" that was a joke right? or are you really that dense? also SethX9 from what I remember you bought that rig in your sig and from that day you have been the "I know every thing about TJ's and you are wrong because I said so" guy I on the other hand bought a BONE stock TJ and bought the parts I wanted for it bolted them on my self on my time so when my junk breaks I know how to fix it and can probably do it on the trail I doubt you or the guy selling this rig can say that I may be wrong but I like to build it not buy it and most guys I know ,infact every guy I know who really wheels, likes to do it them self not pay to have it built so dont worry to much about my logic it is simple ,A & B stuff |
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| Author: | jason thompson [ Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
ThunderbirdJunkie wrote: Also...yeah, your time is valuable. Does this mean I should charge my girlfriend every time I hang out with her because I could, theoretically, be working? does it mean that I should work for free since I grace the presence of others for no charge? Money is money, and I'd rather spend 100 hours building a vehicle than work those hundred hours and pay someone else that money to build it for me.
some of the best logic I have ever seen also remember taxes work 100 hours pay taxes on that pay some one to do work for you pay taxes again eff da man |
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| Author: | SethX9 [ Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thuderbird: my bad on the warranty...I was just going off the guy's ebay page and didn't think that through. jason: wow dude...wound up a bit aren't you? I friggin' agreed with you that a trail rig could be built for less but that doesn't mean what Mr. eBay is asking is too much. Decaf man, decaf. 
The fact remains that just because you or anyone else could take the time to build a vehicle for less money, that would be as capable on offroad rig as the ebay rig, does not make the asking price invalid. And while we're "doing the math": 500 hours is 20 hours a week...that's 8-hours-a-day weekends and an extra couple of hours during the M-F week for the six months it took him to finish putting everything together. I don't think that's an outrageous amount of time. I still think you're comparing apples to oranges. An apples to apples comparison would be if you could take a 2006 Unlimited and find the same or similar parts and spend six months working with a skilled and tested build team such as CRS and come out with as nice a rig that was both a comfortable daily driver and a go-anywhere trail rig and do it all for less than $60k, time and materials. If you could, and I'm not saying you couldn't, then maybe you ought to open a fab shop because there are a LOT of people who couldn't or don't have the time to. That's why your welder friend gets $60/hr and the plumber who was just in my bathroom yesterday morning gets $50/hr. Could I have run my own new pipes and saved a few hundred bucks? Yup. Did the plumber rip me off? Absolutely not. I have never claimed to and don't believe I've acted as if I know everything about building rigs. But, believe it or not I do have knowledge outside my car loan and this board and I don't believe the guy on eBay is making a profit with his asking price. Let's keep discussions restricted to the subjects we're discussing and avoid trying to win arguments by blasting other poster's qualifications to have their own opinion. We each have anecdotes supporting our positions. The fact that my current vehicle is only a couple of months old doesn't indicate I'm an idiot. Finally...The OP didn't ask if someone could do it cheaper; he asked if the list of addons and upgrades would add up to the buy-it-now price. I say the answer to that question is "yes". |
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| Author: | jason thompson [ Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Seth I say again I THINK the price is way to high and the need for a Custom Fab Shop or a "skilled and tested build team" was not really need to build this rig Remember that 90% or better is BOLT ON that is why I say it is WAY over priced Look at it from the "general off roading public" stand most guys ,95% or better, do their own work or about 95% their own work I did about that on my rig and thank god for it because the money saved went to more mods I would bet that the price of the TJ Unlimited + Labor + parts for all what that rig has is about right That is drop off a stock TJ pick it up looking like that would hit the $60-maybe in a push $80K range but the general off roading public could care less how it got that way They ,like me, see what it has and see rip off They know that it can be built for way less and in the end the genral public will not pay that The question is it worth $60K depends on a few things #1 how deep your pockets are #2 are you looking to spend that on a "genral purpose rig" or would it be better to buy a ready built rock buggie? #3 are you really just lazy? The answers for me are #1 very shallow and empty at the bottom ,I own a TJ the wife has a KJ #2 If I had $60K to spend HECK no , buy the rock buggie and a tow rig ,trails can be run in a rock buggie, any trail #3 I like to think not Oh yeah and the time I know that when I go 60/44 long arms I will do some of the work as I get stuff like I will get the 44 front build it and install it in a weekend ,do the same for the rear long arms same weekend time frame BUT if I had to ,I bet, I could do it in 7 days working my normal 10 hour day top to bottom the hard stuff that I want to do was not done to this rig ,V8 conversion for 1 That will take a few weeks of working out bugs I tell you what ,you buy me the parts, we can pile them up at my house when we have ALL the parts at my house I will start at 6:00 am on a Saturday morning and by 6:00 am the following Saturday I will be finished I will E-mail you my "wish list" J/K you know that right if not I can have that list ready in about an hour |
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| Author: | tjkj2002 [ Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
That Jeep is worth $25,000 tops.Lifting and modifying any vehicle drastically decreases the value.Heck I have $18,000 into my KJ,so $17,000(what I paid for the darn thing)+ $18,000=$35,000,now you think anyone will give me anywhere that much for it,nope.Before I left WA I had a dealer going that I wanted to trade my KJ in(I would never do that though) just to see what a dealer would give me for it,$3000 is all.So no way in h@ll that Jeep is worth anywhere near $60,000,in the guys mind is all,not in reality unless he finds a idiot with a IQ of 3 to pay that much for it.Heck if you did all the work yourself(very doable) you'd only spend maybe $15,000-$18,000 in parts to do that same thing that guy did. |
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| Author: | kj in a tight spot [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:14 am ] |
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tjkj2002 wrote: That Jeep is worth $25,000 tops.Lifting and modifying any vehicle drastically decreases the value.Heck I have $18,000 into my KJ,so $17,000(what I paid for the darn thing)+ $18,000=$35,000,now you think anyone will give me anywhere that much for it,nope.Before I left WA I had a dealer going that I wanted to trade my KJ in(I would never do that though) just to see what a dealer would give me for it,$3000 is all.So no way in h@ll that Jeep is worth anywhere near $60,000,in the guys mind is all,not in reality unless he finds a idiot with a IQ of 3 to pay that much for it.Heck if you did all the work yourself(very doable) you'd only spend maybe $15,000-$18,000 in parts to do that same thing that guy did.
Finally a post that makes sense  Very true!! And I do agree with you Jason bout the bolt on stinky poo, this rig aint worth the crap on the bottom of my stinky poo kickers (well maybe not that cheap but definitely not worth more than $30K)
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| Author: | ryno [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
tjkj2002 wrote: Before I left WA I had a dealer going that I wanted to trade my KJ in(I would never do that though) just to see what a dealer would give me for it,$3000 is all.
Only $3,000?!  I think I could sell mine for at least $12-13K and it's not nearly as cool as yours. Kelley Blue Book puts the "Suggested Retail Value" of mine at $15,565. I think that's a little high, but I've only got 35,000 miles on it so maybe that helps.
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| Author: | tjkj2002 [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:42 pm ] |
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ryno wrote: tjkj2002 wrote: Before I left WA I had a dealer going that I wanted to trade my KJ in(I would never do that though) just to see what a dealer would give me for it,$3000 is all. Only $3,000?! I think I could sell mine for at least $12-13K and it's not nearly as cool as yours. Kelley Blue Book puts the "Suggested Retail Value" of mine at $15,565. I think that's a little high, but I've only got 35,000 miles on it so maybe that helps. .
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| Author: | jason thompson [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:27 am ] |
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tjkj2002 wrote: The level of mods that I have done makes it very hard to sell on a dealer lot so it's virtually worthless unless to the right person,I would never sell my KJ,not ever,I'll run it till the wheels fall off them superglue them back on and keep going
.Try duck tape works way better for fixin tires |
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