Boulderbars on a TJ....long with lots of pictures

camper · **Posted:** Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:39 pm

okay, been awhile since I've partcipated here....thought I'd put some pictures together and tell a little story with them....

A few years back, I purchased a new '04 KJ Liberty. My wife and I were interested in camping and backpacking and we wanted a vacation vehicle to compliment those interests. I discovered the internet discussion forums. Before long, I was learning how to modify the KJ by reading the LOST forum. Actually at that time, there weren't many jeep shops doing anything for the new jeep model KJ. Some of the more influential LOST forum members were out in California, and a few of them were working with the folks at All-J Products to bring new stuff to market for KJ owners like me.

I made several purchases from All-J products. I ran their "boulderbars" and their transmission skid. Through them, I also purchased a detriot tru-trac front differential and I spoke with the owners about installation advice. At that time, they were developing a suspension kit that became known as the "frankenlift". I had already purchased a coil spring kit through Rusty's Offroad, another popular vendor. I did install a frankenlift kit on another KJ belonging to a local friend. The point of all this is that I had some good experiences with the All-J (boulderbars) outfit.

Eventually, we drove out to utah to meet some of the LOST crowd and I had the opportunity to test out my KJ modifications.

the KJ boulderbars mount to the unibody "frame" rail and also to the rocker panel pinch weld....

the transmission "superskid" allowed me to slide over the redrock terrain in Moab....

I really liked my KJ jeep and never had any trouble with it. I had joined the local jeep club and participated in a few trail rides in the forests near my home. The terrain is much different in Florida. There isn't much rock crawling. Mostly, the trail rides are just sandy paths through the pine scrub forests. The tropical climate sometimes makes the trails muddy, and the brush will scratch your clearcoat. Occasionally, you have to crawl over a fallen pine tree.

...a local trail ride following the KJ friend with the recently installed "frankenlift".....

The local club folks were cool with my KJ but I was gonna flood the carpet and destroy the paint if I kept following them in the woods. I was also learning more about owning a jeep in general. Well anyway, I decided I wanted a TJ wrangler and I couldn't really afford to own two jeeps. So a couple years ago, I switched. I hated to sell the KJ after spending several dollars to fix it up for off-road adventures. I always tell folks that the KJ is a darn good vehicle, but I've not really followed the model changes the past few years. I've been too busy studying up on how to modify my '98 TJ sport. I purchased a very clean, stock condition used jeep and began planning how to fit larger tires, armor, etc. It's taking me much longer than I expected to transform this jeep. But I must say, I don't regret switching to the TJ.

this is how I drove it for about 18 months while I slowly collected parts in the garage....

I've since lifted and locked and otherwise "improved" the TJ. I have lots of pictures and could type many paragraphs describing that process, but the point of this story is my return to All-J products for "boulderbars" for the TJ. I had planned on their frame mounted rocker protection from early on. But as I read other forums to learn about coil spring lifts and axle strength and the hundreds of other TJ topics, I also learned about tub mounted rocker armor and the arguments against frame mounted bars. A fundamental design of the traditional wrangler is a separate body tub resting on a frame rail. The frame rail is designed with some flexibility. A principal argument concerns the leverage applied to rocker bars outboard of the frame. Unlike the KJ bars that are also bolted to the pinchweld, the TJ bars are unsupported out there where they will take the weight of the jeep. Also, rigidly attached bars remove some of the designed flex in the frame. The concepts of frame stress and "work-hardening" are a little over my head. It's sufficient to say that there is very popular support for rocker protection that attaches only to the tub and is isolated from the frame rails. So I postponed any rocker armor purchase and spent my money on other stuff.

After a year of study, I finally started installing modifications to my TJ. It bothered me that I hadn't addressed a fundamental armor issue of rocker protection. I admit I had an emotional attachment to "boulderbars". But it took a while to decide to trust my instincts and go forward with my original plan. I ended up driving my lifted TJ for about another year before I called All-J products in Big Bear, California (boulderbars.com). The best I can tell, they're a independent jeep shop, specializing in modifications for trail ready rigs. They've been a big supporter of the LOST gang since before I ever got interested. I don't however, claim to know these folks outside of my few phone conversations. I've paid normal prices and I don't feel I owe them any special consideration. But I do recognize and appreciate the fact that they were willing to develop useful products for KJ owners. I also met some folks in Utah that do know the shop owners personally, and I respect their good opinion of this company.

The fact is, I like the frame mounted rocker bar design. I like the idea of a side bumper. I don't feel comfortable with the body mount bolts taking the shock of impact on tub mounted rocker protection. I don't have engineering credentials to support my position. So I'll concede any debate on the subject. The boulderbars use three support arms bolted to the frame rail. Some other similar products only use two frame arms. Some similar rocker bars are welded to the frame, and some are attached with a sandwich design around the frame rail.

It's a long way from California to Florida for a 75 lb. box of powder coated steel. The bars arrived in good condition but the box was torn slightly and I was missing some hardware. In these pictures, I've already removed the internal wrappings and shipping supports. I called the shop and asked to speak to Quinn (the owner). He was very friendly and immediately shipped additional attachment hardware.

I don't weld....at least not yet. I plan to gear up for that skill presently. In the mean time, I need the convenience of bolt-on parts. Three support arms increases the attachment points and hopefully the strength of "boulderbars" over similar designed products. At some point I could decide to weld these to frame. Some of the attachment bolts will use thread inserts in the frame rail. The rest will depend on threads formed in the frame steel itself. All the attachment bolts are 5/16-18 thread. I ended up replacing some of them with some grade 8 bolts I had in a coffee can.

more to come.....

camper · **Posted:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:47 pm

You can order "boulderbars" for no body lift....or for a 1 inch body lift. About a year ago, I installed a 3.5 inch "rubicon express" spring kit and a 1 inch body lift....along with a bunch of other stuff. I run 33 inch tires. I ordered the "boulderbars" designed for the body lift. The support arms are tapered to position the 2 inch square tube rocker bars up near the body sheet metal. You can see I never bothered to address the faded plastic flares. I've been looking forward to removing the small mud flare.

The next three pictures have the boulderbars upside down. You can see how the front support arm is constructed of a three sided channel that tapers toward the main bar. There are four bolt holes in the forward mount flange and I'll need to drill four new holes in the frame for this location.

The center support is a closed rectangular tube with a gusset at the mount flange. There are already four existing holes in the frame for this flange. The frame holes are too large for the supplied 5/16" bolts. So we'll install threaded inserts in the frame for this location.

The rear support arm is designed like the front with a three sided channel that tapers toward the main bar. This mount flange only uses three bolts. Three new holes will have to be drilled in the frame for this location. That makes a total of seven new holes in the frame for this side.

These are the four frame holes that exist for the factory side step option. The holes are too large, so the hardware kit includes some internal thread "nutserts" to allow use of the 5/16 inch bolts. You slip the insert into the frame hole and tighten the dummy bolt against an oversize washered nut. As the bolt is tightened, the insert swells to fill the hole....just like a pop rivet works. You have to be careful not to over-tighten the bolt or you'll strip the internal threads. Installing the inserts is very simple.

You temporarily hang the boulderbars on the four center bolts to align and mark the locations for the front and rear flange mounts. I used a jack to slightly tilt the bar parallel to the body line.

...then mark your holes for a pilot drill bit.

I used a 1/8 inch bit to drill through the frame. It's much easier on your tools and your arm to drill a small pilot hole first. I never seem to be able to center-punch my holes very accurately. Fortunately the mount flange holes are just slightly larger than the 5/16 inch diameter bolts so being slightly off center won't stop me. Still, you have to be pretty accurate or you can have problems.

more below.....

camper · **Posted:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:40 pm

While I was involved in this, I went ahead and removed the plastic mud flares They're easy to unbolt. But the resulting look isn't appealing. I was planning to fab up some kind of kick plate to hide the ugly. A little later, I reinstalled the plastic flares for the time being.

The center support is bolted to the frame where the thread inserts were installed. The front and rear mount locations will use 5/16 inch thread rolling bolts turned directly into the frame steel. A "F" size drill bit, commonly sold with a 5/16 inch thread tap, will enlarge my pilot holes and allow these bolts to cut their own threads as they are installed. Supposedly, there's a subtle distinction between a self-taping bolt and a "thread-rolling" bolt. At any rate, I'm only gonna get a couple threads in the frame rail, so I hope these work.

...this picture is staged....I'm drilling the final hole size with the "F" bit.

I own a couple good torque wrenches, but I hardly ever bother with them. I've turned a few wrenches and usually with the correct size tool, you can feel a lot in your hands. The front four bolts went smooth. I guess I over-torqued one of the rear bolts though. I lost the thread bite, even with a different bolt. So I drilled the hole out and threaded it for a 3/8 inch bolt....another grade 8 from my coffee can. I searched the internet for the triangle shape on the supplied "thread-rollers" bolt head. I never could find any information about their hardness.

I had to remove the rear tire so I could spin the tap handle....

A couple of looks after this side is bolted on....

camper · **Posted:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:04 pm

So, I switched to the driver side....installing the center four inserts....

The process is the same....hang the bar by the center mount and mark the forward and rear locations for drilling. Drill pilot holes and then switch to the "F" drill bit. Carefully tighten the thread-rolling bolts so you don't strip the threads.

This time I was all done and was just going back to "snug-up" all the bolts. I ended up snapping this one. It may be that I didn't have my hole centered well enough or the threads weren't cutting perpendicular to the flange. Once the head of the bolt bottomed out, it may have had a slight tilt and snapped. Who knows? It wouldn't have been a typical project if everything went smoothly anyway. I had to core-drill the broken stud out of the hole and re-thread it for 3/8 thread. These triangle marked bolts are definitely not over-engineered by any means. I hope the folks at "boulderbars" get a chance to read my story at some point. If so, count me as a customer who would gladly pay a premium for top-shelf fasteners.

I ended up with about 1/2 inch more clearance on the driver side. As you can see, I have almost a full inch here. Again, these bars are supposed to be for a 1 inch body lift, so I was expecting a little less gap here. I reinstalled the faded plastic for now.

...a couple of driveway shots....

I have 23 inches below the center of the bars to the ground....I have about 19 inches clear under my belly-up skid. The bars cover the full length of the rocker area...all the way under the fender flares. I can still leap into the jeep without dragging my work pants over the bar. I'm pleased with everything. I just don't like the plastic flare.

I have a high-lift jack collecting dust in the garage. I'll try jacking up the jeep one day soon and take some pictures. I'm gonna go looking for some scrap aluminum to make some kick plates.

...part two is below....get another beer....

camper · **Posted:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:50 pm

okay, so a couple weeks later.....

So after a week of driving it with just the boulderbars, I decided to go ahead and get the mopar diamondplate rockers to finish the look. I checked a local scrap hardware shop for some aluminum plate, but they thought too much of their stuff. I was hoping for basically "free" and I don't have a way to bend a four foot piece of plate to make it look good. I would still need fasteners, etc. So I just figured I'd go ahead with a known product. I checked ebay, but by the time good used rockers sold, they were too expensive. I ordered new from "jeepsareus.com" out of New York. A fella named Tony owns the outfit and he sells factory parts at a reasonable price. I've spoken with him and he's friendly.

The diamond plate rockers are factory on the TJ rubicons. They're powdercoated steel with a rubber backing, and you get a bag of hardware.

I pulled the plastic mud flares and drilled out the three inserts in the sheet metal. I waxed up the paint just for the heck of it before hanging the new rockers.

...these three holes will not be used again, but I wanted the inserts out so the diamondplate would sit flat.

You have to drill five new holes in the side and five in the bottom. All the holes will use thread inserts. The inserts are similar to what was used for the boulderbars. A little different, but same concept.

...these inserts work like drywall anchors...they collapse very easily with a couple wrenches. The kit bolts are only little 6mm thread...not much for strength. But I only wanted these rockers for the kick plate function and to finish the overall look.

I'd prefer a flat black look instead of the gloss. Here in Florida, it won't take long for the shine to fade. The install was very simple and I'll be able to remove these from time to time to check on any rust issues underneath. With the rubber backing, I decided I didn't need any additional sealers.

I guess I'll go ahead and do something with the faded plastic flares now. The natural gray looked okay with my paint color before, but now with the black bars, it needs addressing. I don't like armor-all. Too greasy. I don't care to paint the flares either, so I'll try the heat gun method one afternoon to see if I can darken them up some.

So anyway, that's my "boulderbars" story. It isn't that big a deal, but I took some pictures and figured I'd provide something for the forum. I still need (want) a bunch of other stuff for the jeep. But at least I have the rocker armor issue settled now. Most of the time, the only bashing will be fallen logs on the trail. I hope to someday get back out west and beat up the jeep on some rocks. In the mean time, I can knock my boots on the side of the jeep to help keep the mud out of the floorboard.

I would like to repeat or clarify one point. All my dealings with All-J products (boulderbars.com) have been great. I haven't been on trails where hard hits test the TJ bars, but I did use their stuff on my KJ out in Moab and they held up very well. I recommend these folks for any jeep related products and advice.

thanks for looking....

jeepkj02 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:01 pm

wow...great build. This should be moved to the Wrangler section.

camper · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:22 am

not sure who moved my post...I had it living in the "test" section while I work on the whole story....I need another evening to finish adding pictures and text....

Blue KJ in PA · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:02 am

Nice work!

JJsTJ · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:21 am

Way to go Steve! Thanks for adding some content in here!! BTW, looks like the same basic Jeep as my son just bought. His build thread is a couple below this one, check it out!

Did you hapen to document the rest of the build, the lift, body, lift, etc.?

So how about Ouray, Co. in 09?!!?

Is that "West" enough for ya?

KJ Taz · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:32 am

Nice write up! You will have to let us know how you like those on the Wrangler. Please up date down the road.

camper · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:22 pm

JJsKJ wrote:

Did you hapen to document the rest of the build, the lift, body, lift, etc.?

So how about Ouray, Co. in 09?!!?

Is that "West" enough for ya?

okay guys....hope no one has a slow internet connection when they click on my story....lots of pictures can be slow to load. Sometimes it's easy to misinterpret an attitude on the internet. Just wanted to make it clear that I'm happy and confident about the boulderbars product and install.

yes, John, I read a few weeks ago about your son's jeep....hope your family is well. And, yes, I have a bunch of pictures from my TJ build up. It's all basic stuff that thousands of others have done. I put some essays together for the local club forum. If this boulderbars story doesn't sound like I'm full of it, I can show you some of the other things I've done.

Don't know about meeting you in Colorado....but eventually I'd like to join y'all again. It's 6 or 8 hundred dollars in gas just to get to the trailhead and back home....

Inc · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:26 pm

I moved the thread. Sorry you weren't done in the test section, but hey, look at the good response form it so far.

jsc7002 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:42 pm

nice build!

JJsTJ · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:16 pm

Steve, PLEASE share more. Full of it or not, :wink:

it is a good read and needed around here. We need as much tech as we can get!

No CO??!! Dang I hope we don't need a Spiderman to help w/ a tarp on a roof or anything like that.....we would be lost w/out ya!

RedJeepCRD · **Posted:** Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:33 pm

Thats a great looking Jeep Steve!

Wes

Khaki-KJ · **Posted:** Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:18 pm

Thanks for sharing this. I thought I was over the TJ bug until I saw your write up. :lol:

Boulderbars on a TJ....long with lots of pictures

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