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 Post subject: switched to TJ.....
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 11:57 pm 
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Location: altamonte springs, fla. (orlando)
this driveway space formerly occupied by '04 liberty KJ sport....

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now the parking spot for '98 TJ sport.....completely stock as purchased new except for newer
removable faceplate radio/cd unit.....no pieces missing or broken.....80k miles.....no signs of ever
off-road.....includes door surrounds and soft top frame, but no soft top.....

everything works.....very clean.....love it so far.....now studying modification options....
I expect it to change gradually over the next 12 months.....

I loved the KJ and had zero problems with it over two years....it introduced me to jeeps....I was running
with the local jeep club in central florida and was bound to flood the carpet or scrape the paint beyond
acceptable for what it was still worth.... and I wanted to own a wrangler and learn more about modifying one....

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steve

'98 TJ sport gunmetal blue
33's with modifications to make them fit....still need a few more things....

first jeep....
'04 liberty sport 4x4 khaki
modified as recommended by L.O.S.T.....major fun on vacation....

L.O.S.T. (in fla.) #000496


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 6:48 am 
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Steve, you made a good choice for the type of offroading you do. Nice Jeep!! We'll have to compare notes on Mods.

Wes

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 11:02 am 
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Steve, The KJ is a very good Jeep and it fit's a lot of needs for many but...I also know that that TJ is going to be an outstanding rig for you both on and off road. It looks very clean and it going to work out great for you. Man you could drive anything and we would still want you making events with us. We really missed you in Moab this past year but I know it is in the books for a coming year so Just looking forward to seeing you out on the trail with us again. Get that thing modded and let's go hit some trails. later...Clint[/code]

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 1:26 pm 
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thanks wes and clint.....two very fine people I met through my purchase of and play with the KJ and the lost web site....my decision to change had nothing to do with the liberty and I'm proud to have started the "jeep thing" with it....but since I've not previously owned a wrangler, I wanted to include that experience in my jeep life....

I'll have lots of questions to ask as I consider the modifications to come.....I hope to take some pictures and write up some (amusing?) stories as I build this jeep....and yes I want to return to the west and kick some dust with you guys....

this jeep is the sport 6cyl with 5 speed transmission....3.07 gears.....I'm currently looking for a TJ d44 rear axle assembly to swap out the c-clip design d35....I think I'll run 33 inch tires as my first go around and will probably have to regear to 4.11 (?).....the super 35 axle upgrade kits are supposed to be a good mod and will handle 33s but I might as well get the axle I want now before I start spending on the gears, lockers, etc....

like tire choices, the lift kits for TJ jeeps overwhelms new guys like me.....I'm still learning but I'm considering a rubicon express 3.5" superflex with the adjustable upper control arms upgrade.....a 1" body lift with the motor mount lifts to allow a replacement belly skid....a kilby gas tank skid to raise the gas tank....if I understand the implications of this, I'll probably have to modify the np231 transfer case with a slip yoke eliminator and replace the rear drive shaft....I plan to do all the work myself as that's the whole reason for my wanting to play in this game....

and OF COURSE.....I want the real mccoy "BOULDER BARS" to show my regard for the gang here at lost and to show the local jeepers my good sense....

everything in life is relative and I realize these changes are not extreme in some circles....I will have to drive this jeep on the road for the next few years until I purchase a day to day vehicle.....please comment on this initial idea if you agree or disagree.....

regards....

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steve

'98 TJ sport gunmetal blue
33's with modifications to make them fit....still need a few more things....

first jeep....
'04 liberty sport 4x4 khaki
modified as recommended by L.O.S.T.....major fun on vacation....

L.O.S.T. (in fla.) #000496


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 1:35 pm 
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I'm starting to look into doing the same things to my Rubicon (altought I still own the KJ and will for some time if not for ever). I already have dual Dana 44s, but otherwise our journey might be the same.

I am currently weighing the RE 3.5" versus an OME 2.5" with a JKS body lift. Lets share info and make LOST one of the best destinations for this kind of info - a lot of what you find focuses on going REALLY big, which it seems both of us want to stray away from for the time being.

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 1:59 pm 
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WOW now thats some news... We'll have to go "break her in"

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:02 pm 
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Hey Steve...........welcome to the world of TJ's....
The KJ is a great Jeep !!! For that matter.....all Jeeps are GREAT!!!
The TJ is just a different style......
If you have any Questions dont hesitate to ask........We have done quite a bit to our LJ.......ALL'J's has provided almost everything. GREAT people to work with...........
P.S.......the 3.5 Rubicon Express.....superflex.....will make that Jeep a flex monster!!!! 8) ......(skip the body lift)!!!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:35 pm 
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Congrats on the new TJ.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 11:55 pm 
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wow... now that's a clean TJ!!!

:shock: :shock: :shock:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 12:37 am 
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Dump the D35C ...super on not

You might look for some Rubicon Axles w/ the lockers in them off a totalled low mileage jeep. and the swap should be pretty straight forward (check that before you act :) ). Low gears are a clutch's best freind....

If you can swing it...Long arms seem to be the way to go.

Nice Jeep...I don't think it could be any cleaner could it ! Congratulations

8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 1:03 am 
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Camper..........Looks like a fine jeep you got there. It looks new.

You mentioned you were thinking of putting a D44 with 4:11 in the rear. If you do that you will need to (or should ) change the front diff or gears as I believe the gears need to be the same (same gear ratio needs to be in both front and rear diff)...........so there is a pair of dana44's in your future.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 8:51 am 
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hey dynamike....can you tell me more about the body lift modification and why you recommend I skip that....I was thinking that the 1" body lift is common and with the replacement motor mounts I could raise the center driveline up enough to replace the factory belly skid with something more flush....bear in mind that I don't really know what I'm talking about yet....

thanks to the recent posts....yes it's a very clean and pure TJ for eight years old.....I guess I'll get to be the guy who gets to spoil it.....and yes I know that front and rear gear ratios must match....but thanks for watching out for me.....I'll probably leave the dana 30 up front for the time being....the things I've already mentioned will be a significant expense for me.....that's why I went with the pre-owned model instead of a new rubicon.....I knew I would want to spend some money on whatever I ended up with....

I think the long arm kits are very cool but I figured they would be more useful on a longer wheel base like the unlimited model....and I believe they also require cutting and welding and other "no turning back" considerations....

again, I appreciate any comments and corrections in my thinking.....you won't hurt my feelings if you want to disagree....and we'll all learn something by discussion....

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steve

'98 TJ sport gunmetal blue
33's with modifications to make them fit....still need a few more things....

first jeep....
'04 liberty sport 4x4 khaki
modified as recommended by L.O.S.T.....major fun on vacation....

L.O.S.T. (in fla.) #000496


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 12:22 pm 
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Hey Steve,

Have you looked into swapping in the ford 8.8. It is a popular mod as well. It is not a direct bolt in, but the brackets can be added with little to no trouble. I am sure there are a few of the Down right lost guys, myself included that could help with this.

The dana 44 idea is a great one but they are sometime hard to come by and expensive. Especially if you are trying to get a TJ - dana 44. With the 8.8, you can ussually pick one up for around 300.00 with 4.10 gears and disc brakes, then all you will have to do is add a locker of some sort and your set. If your happy with drums brake setup you can pick a 8.8 up at a junk yard in Daytona for 50.00, but you will probably have to regear it. The widths are almost the same, I think they may bea 1/2" difference.

The disadvantage to the 8.8 is the center section does hang a bit low. Anyway, Just thought I would throw out another option.

Daniel


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 12:58 pm 
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congrats, your tj is a year old than ours but has more mileage--ours stays in the garage since my husband rides a yamaha to work and i work from home.

i'll just mention that the tires on your tj suck. we had them. when we bought our jeep we got the tire upgrade to the bigger size and we thought the wrangler tires on the wrangler were so cool, until the roads got wet or icy or sludgey. no traction, i could spin leaving a stop sign at 5 mph! we have a stick shift so maybe you'll have a different experience but i couldn't wait till they wore out, which they did at almost 40,000 miles, which i thought was kind of premature.

anyhow, i bought michelins, i'm probably one of the few here that has them. their tread pattern makes them look like they can only run on the street but we've found them capable off road and the only problems we've had are due to "driver error".

other, easier mods not metioned but definitely worth doing are adding disco's. i ordered mine from All J and he had me by JKS and boy and i glad i did. they look good, were easy to install, and don't have the goofy straps and D-rings that some do. we also just added a Kilby gas tank skid and Poison Spyder diff ring. it really good to do both at the same time because once the gas tank has been drop, you can easily get to the diff.
i'm short enough that i could sit cross legged under the car while i put in the diff ring.

you will need to purchase a set of large star bits. i got a 5 pc set from autozone, but already rounded one. i recommend sears but be ready for sticker shock--those puppies aren't cheap. you'll also need a torque wrench for things like the disco's and diff ring. our autozone rents them, charges your card, then gives you all the money back when you return it.

another small thing are husky liners, especially in the front. we bought them originally for the snow, but they're great out in the desert, beach, where ever to catch all the junk on your shoes and keep you from mucking up your footwells.

unless you want to plunk down a lot of money right away, i suggest upgrading as you break things. we (well, hubby) broke the rubber boot that the ball of the disconnect sits in so the following monday i called up All J.

the last thing--you need a winch. they make the front look bad stupid, give you a little more accident protection (the stock bumpers are a joke) and come in mighty handy--even when pulling down trees in your yard! just don't ride around with it wound on the spindle like from the factory, unwind and rewind at least once so it looks better :)

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99 Wrangler Sport, Amethyst *~* 9500 lb Mile Marker Winch *~* Bestop Mesh Windows *~* Michelin LTX M/S *~* Custom Rock Shift Knob *~* Cobra 75 WX ST *~* 3" Boulder Bars *~* Full Husky Liners *~* Aiwa Deck *~* JKS Disco's *~* Garmin 60 CS *~* Kilby Gas tank skid *~* Poison Spyder Diff Ring


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 5:30 pm 
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Hey Steve..............FROM experience. I had the 2-1/2" OME in an "03" Rubicon. LOVED it !!!! Awesome ride on & off road!!! HUGE improvement over stock!!! This time around I did ALOT of research before tearing into the Unlimited. I would have prefered to go long arm right off the get go. And I dont believe so much for a better ride.....but for more flex...(the "03" Rubicon with OME lift rode AWEsome)......"how could it ride any better????".....
BUT......the expense of the long arm was just more than I could absorb.
SO........researched short arm lifts. I REALLY didnt want a body lift, to me....its just raising the center of gravity, and allowing a larger tire. SO.....this time around I chose the 3.5" Rubicon Express, and after talking with Quinn at ALL'J's.......my decision was well confimed!!!! And I am VERY happy with it!!!! As for ride......I TRULY belive that the Unlimited with the 3.5 RE lift rides as well as my "03" with the 2-1/2" OME.......but I now also have a little longer wheelbase, which may have something to do with it!
Yes.....I Still have the stock SHOVEL :twisted: "stupid shovel"!!!!!
At least we did not have to add spacers and drop it further. I have to say that shovel takes one HECK of a beating...and I mean beating!!!!! Besides the driver....the shovel is the only thing that stops my Jeep from going anywhere!!!!...........BUT....there is an anwser for that.....heck its only money right. Nth degree, makes an AWESOME skid replacement that gains you several inches from stock. (WITH NO BODY LIFT)The yellow Rubi....."sam" belonging to Annette wheeled in Moab with stock suspension, stock tires, but replaced the shovel with N'th's skid, and she went every where!!! You can see a pic of these skids.......(Under Burchie's Pics) (Moab).....She was driving through the wedge, and Mark left the camera down on the ground as she passed over!!!! SUPER COOL!!! The pic before is me trying to get a tire up coming out of the Wedge........"DANG"....check out that flex....there is literally a couple feet between the top of the tire and the fender!!!!....SO...ya see why I believe.......in......RE 3.5"...and Quinn at (ALL'J's)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 12:08 am 
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Hey Steve, maybe you should post a pic of your Liberty and the mods you did to it so people know what kind of advice to give. Guys, Steve may be new to Wranglers, but I would say he knows his way around the toolbox. Just check out his Tech write-ups if you don't believe me...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 12:11 pm 
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Hi Steve. Nice TJ, and man that thing is clean. Mike gave you great advice. You pretty much can't go wrong with a RE lift. Great components and will flex great. RE seems to be a bit squeeky but just keep the bushings and joints lubed up and it should be fine. I am a fan of mixing and matching different parts. Frankenstein it. The original lift i bought was a mixture of parts and since then i have mixed and matched a few different things into it. I am more than happy and still can not believe how it performs. Lately they have dubbed me the sleeper Jeep. I constantly wheel with people that run 35" + tires and in alot of cases my rig either out performs theirs or keeps up with them. I am only being held back by my want of not ripping my jeep to shreds too bad. Just fyi, a body lift will raise your COG less tha a spring lift. All thing being equal on the two rigs, 2.5 inch springs plus a 1" body lift has a lower COG than a jeep with 3.5" springs. With the 1" bl you are only raising the tub and it is lighter. The 3.5" springs raises the whole chassis and places more weight up higher, raising the COG. Some people just don't like body lifts. I still haven't figured out why. Although anything much over 1" starts to look weird with all the gaps. Your TJ being a 98 there are options out there for you to go flat skid and not need a BL, mml combo. The shovel didn't start being put on TJ's until 03 and that is just because of the 4:1 TC in the rubis is larger. Unforntunatley for the other TJs the got stuck with the shovel because DC only wanted to make one universal skid. With the 4:1 TC you either need a BL, MML combo or need to dimple the bottom of the tub. Nth degree requires you to dimple the tub if you are not running a BL mml combo. Only if you have the larger TC though. Dimpling the tub is no biggie though. Sooner or later you will dimple it somewhere anyways. I wouldn't worry about going long arm either unless you are going over 4" inches of lift. Long arm lifts imo are for 37" tires or more. You can fit 35s with a small sa lift and body lift or a small sa lift and some cutting. If you are shooting for over 35" than you are going to be replacing axles, gears and more that what you'd probably want to change. Remember one thing about flex too. There is show flex and usable flex. This becomes real apparent on large waterfall climbs and huge rocks. You can actually throw a tire in the air and still get better traction than somone that is all flexed out and has all four wheels on the ground. I have seen it time and time again. This is why i cut down the flex on my frontend. The best thing to do is get out with alot of people and see what works and what don't. Do that for awhile and i bet you'd be surprised at how some lifts perform and others just look good. HTH
Cya

PS Hey Mike, when are you coming out to Table Mesa? We need to run your rig up the Terminators. :D

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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 1:17 pm 
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This is what I love about LOST, Ive been wnating to get a YJ or a TJ for my Fiance' , so Ive been on some other boards but yet have I found as much useful info as there is in the last 5 posts. I think you made a wise decision Steve getting the TJ. I have been looking at Troopers, XJs and YJs right now. We really need to go run her downt he rail grade to break her in.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 5:40 pm 
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well I'm still trying to learn some stuff and will drive the TJ for a few months before I do anything much....

the body lift issue seems to be a popular argument on all the jeep forums....some issues that come up are the change in the radiator and fan shroud, and the rigid air conditioner lines into the the fire wall....and the shift linkage for the transfer case.....there are fixes for every change and there may be other implications that I've yet to read about....here in florida, there isn't much besides water and mud challenges....I guess off-camber climbing locations like out west would make some of these guys think different about raising their center of gravity....I've spoken to a few guys who take it way up with the body spacers and do very little to the suspension.....on the the other hand, a common objection I've read locally is that some guys just think the lifted body is ugly....

it seems to me if I was going to lift the body I'd go only one inch and I'd go ahead and raise the engine and transmission with the oversize motor mounts....everything in the engine compartment would still line up....in this case does the transmission tilt slightly downward into the transfer case or does it all move upward essentially parallel?.....that way the transfer case shift linkage would still be comfortable?.....(you can tell I haven't spent much time under this jeep yet)...

one of the reasons I was thinking of committing one way or the other is because I noticed that the ALL-J boulder bars are offered with or without a one inch body lift to keep the bars up tight....and I have a sentimental reason for wanting to put their bars on this jeep....

of course, this body lift movement upward in connection with the suspension lift effectively moving the differentials downward makes a drastic change in the angles of the drive shafts.....so the necessity for the transfer case short shaft and yoke change and the cv driveshaft for the rear.....with the front d30, would I also need a different front drive shaft?.....the front shaft is longer than the rear (unlike the KJ setup) so maybe the angle severity wouldn't be as bad?....

anyway, you can't take what I'm typing as being correct or smart since Ive just started paying close attention to this topic....the first thing I want to do is find a dana 44 rear to replace the c-clip design....if I don't want to wait, I can spend around 1800 dollars(?) for one with axle shafts, a detroit locker and gears.....they're supposed to be difficult to find in a junkyard.....I know about the ford rear end options, but I think I'll continue to consider the d44....once I find out how much I have to spend for this with re-gears for 33 inch tires, then I'll go ahead and gather the lift parts and drive shaft(s)....maybe disc brakes at the same time....I'll take a weeks vacation and spend it in the garage....

all of this will cost me a fortune and I still will need tires, so I'm just talking about it for the time being....I'm excited about the education I'll get so I've justified the expense to a degree....all of these toys are already in a rubicon model but I wouldn't have learned anything....while I'm waiting, I need to shake down this used TJ for a few miles and find out why it was traded in....

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steve

'98 TJ sport gunmetal blue
33's with modifications to make them fit....still need a few more things....

first jeep....
'04 liberty sport 4x4 khaki
modified as recommended by L.O.S.T.....major fun on vacation....

L.O.S.T. (in fla.) #000496


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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 7:05 pm 
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Knowing you, you'll research the heck out of your options, pick the good ones that work best for you then do an awesome write up so others can learn. Regardless of what you're driving, you're the man Steve! Have fun with it and I look forward to hearing about your new adventures.

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